Author Topic: What if this is the end of the line for KG?  (Read 11855 times)

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Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2009, 08:06:50 PM »

Offline Jon

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I don't think this is the end of the line for KG.  However, I think it is a sobering reminder that our current success will not last forever and that Ainge and ownership need to do everything possible to maximize the success we can achieve over the next few years.  A blown ACL by any of the Big Three could spell the end of this era.

Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2009, 08:50:53 PM »

Offline CDawg834

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And it's not just injuries.  Remember, over the next 3 years, Ray, KG, and Pierce's contracts are up (1 each year, in the order I named them).  Pretty good possibility that 2 years from now, Ray will be elsewhere, and KG will be a pending free agent.

Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2009, 09:34:03 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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And it's not just injuries.  Remember, over the next 3 years, Ray, KG, and Pierce's contracts are up (1 each year, in the order I named them).  Pretty good possibility that 2 years from now, Ray will be elsewhere, and KG will be a pending free agent.

Which, when knowing there is absolutely zero salary cap flexibility for the foreseeable future, means i put the chances that this is the last season for this particular "big 3" together at about 75%. I think Ray is gone this offseason for a couple younger pieces with longer contracts.

Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2009, 10:09:41 PM »

Offline BigAlTheFuture

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And it's not just injuries.  Remember, over the next 3 years, Ray, KG, and Pierce's contracts are up (1 each year, in the order I named them).  Pretty good possibility that 2 years from now, Ray will be elsewhere, and KG will be a pending free agent.

Yeah, we should cherish these next few years.
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Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2009, 12:21:55 AM »

Offline bello_man09

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guys i am so worried about this  :-\..but i have faith that the Lord that he  will be fine...

Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2009, 12:34:23 AM »

Offline Andy Jick

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we just have to hope the good Lord isn't a Cav's or Laker's fan...
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Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2009, 12:37:30 AM »

Offline bello_man09

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we just have to hope the good Lord isn't a Cav's or Laker's fan...
...that was funny..

Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2009, 01:19:12 AM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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And it's not just injuries.  Remember, over the next 3 years, Ray, KG, and Pierce's contracts are up (1 each year, in the order I named them).  Pretty good possibility that 2 years from now, Ray will be elsewhere, and KG will be a pending free agent.

Which, when knowing there is absolutely zero salary cap flexibility for the foreseeable future, means i put the chances that this is the last season for this particular "big 3" together at about 75%. I think Ray is gone this offseason for a couple younger pieces with longer contracts.

i think that Ray will resign for a lesser amount in 2010, then Pierce will do the same in 2011. Then in 11/12 KG's salary jumps back up from 18 to 21 mil.

and i doubt that Ray would leave via free agency becuase he would then lose his bird rights, where if he stays here they'd continue to grow.

i beleive that their salaries are going to work perfect becuase the year Ray's contract is up is the same year that TA, Eddie (assuming we take the option for next year), and the illusive Scal contract come off the books. So if you add it up it comes to about 30 mil coming off the books in one year. Give Ray like 10 mil and you still have 20 to pick up future talent and role players, then the next year theres a similar situation where Paul's 21 comes off.




Also: the best thing that Red did is that he never traded his players away for draft picks, if your winning championships the good players will want to come here.

another note: 2010 Joe Johnson becomes a free agent, so we could have a five of

Rondo
Joe Johnson
Pierce
KG
Perk

with Ray coming off the bench.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 01:25:00 AM by xmuscularghandix »

Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2009, 06:46:14 AM »

Offline BillfromBoston

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I think you're getting swayed by big names. Most of the time, older players (over 30) have had skills decline, so aren't as important, so are not as noticeable when they miss time due to injury. There are fewer older players who are still superstars, but lots of older players in general who get injured; odds wise, injuries more likely hit the lesser known older players than the superstar older players. Additionally, upon receiving a major injury, older players kind of just disappear quietly into the sunset so we forget they were injured.

Mourning hurt his knee last year and hasn't played since. Pollard hasn't played since his injuries last year. It happens all the time to older players but it's not as reported or noticeable because older players are often less important players. 


In '07-'08, the Spurs had the Oldest Average age on the team at 30.6 years. Portland was youngest at 24.06 years of age. a quick look through the data suggests that the average age of an NBA player is around 25.5-26 years. Since it's nearly impossible to be in the NBA at the age of 19 any more, that means that for any player 32 or above there must be multiple players under the age of 26 in the League. This is a round about way of saying there are a lot more "young" players in the league than "old" players.

Therefore, if injuries were equally likely to occur to any age group, we would obviously expect more injuries to young players than old ones. However, taking a quick look through the NBA.com injury report shows a lot of "old" players with injuries, but many of the "old" players are no longer such important players, so their injuries are not as exciting or as media worthy. In addition, a few of the injuries are to players who haven't played this year, which is why their injury status hasn't generated the same news as the injuries to young players.

So, considering that:
-there are fewer old players in the league
-there are still fewer "old" players still playing at a very high level
-younger players generate more news than older players

it seems very clear why it APPEARS as though injuries happen to young players more frequently. However, after looking through some data, I feel completely safe in my previous statement that:

-Older players are more likely to be injured than younger players
-Older players have longer recovery times than younger players.

None of which - of course - tells us anything about the nature of KG's injury and whether its going to adversely effect his career...

Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2009, 03:13:31 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I think you're getting swayed by big names. Most of the time, older players (over 30) have had skills decline, so aren't as important, so are not as noticeable when they miss time due to injury. There are fewer older players who are still superstars, but lots of older players in general who get injured; odds wise, injuries more likely hit the lesser known older players than the superstar older players. Additionally, upon receiving a major injury, older players kind of just disappear quietly into the sunset so we forget they were injured.

Mourning hurt his knee last year and hasn't played since. Pollard hasn't played since his injuries last year. It happens all the time to older players but it's not as reported or noticeable because older players are often less important players. 


In '07-'08, the Spurs had the Oldest Average age on the team at 30.6 years. Portland was youngest at 24.06 years of age. a quick look through the data suggests that the average age of an NBA player is around 25.5-26 years. Since it's nearly impossible to be in the NBA at the age of 19 any more, that means that for any player 32 or above there must be multiple players under the age of 26 in the League. This is a round about way of saying there are a lot more "young" players in the league than "old" players.

Therefore, if injuries were equally likely to occur to any age group, we would obviously expect more injuries to young players than old ones. However, taking a quick look through the NBA.com injury report shows a lot of "old" players with injuries, but many of the "old" players are no longer such important players, so their injuries are not as exciting or as media worthy. In addition, a few of the injuries are to players who haven't played this year, which is why their injury status hasn't generated the same news as the injuries to young players.

So, considering that:
-there are fewer old players in the league
-there are still fewer "old" players still playing at a very high level
-younger players generate more news than older players

it seems very clear why it APPEARS as though injuries happen to young players more frequently. However, after looking through some data, I feel completely safe in my previous statement that:

-Older players are more likely to be injured than younger players
-Older players have longer recovery times than younger players.

None of which - of course - tells us anything about the nature of KG's injury and whether its going to adversely effect his career...

Absolutely correct. I had mentioned that older players are more likely to get injured, and someone disagreed with this statement:

Bynum, Jefferson, Amare, Nelson are all young and had major injuries this year.

So the above post you referenced was simply in response to that. But absolutely, odds tell you nothing about a specific injury.

Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2009, 03:30:21 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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And it's not just injuries.  Remember, over the next 3 years, Ray, KG, and Pierce's contracts are up (1 each year, in the order I named them).  Pretty good possibility that 2 years from now, Ray will be elsewhere, and KG will be a pending free agent.

Which, when knowing there is absolutely zero salary cap flexibility for the foreseeable future, means i put the chances that this is the last season for this particular "big 3" together at about 75%. I think Ray is gone this offseason for a couple younger pieces with longer contracts.

i think that Ray will resign for a lesser amount in 2010, then Pierce will do the same in 2011. Then in 11/12 KG's salary jumps back up from 18 to 21 mil.

and i doubt that Ray would leave via free agency becuase he would then lose his bird rights, where if he stays here they'd continue to grow.

i beleive that their salaries are going to work perfect becuase the year Ray's contract is up is the same year that TA, Eddie (assuming we take the option for next year), and the illusive Scal contract come off the books. So if you add it up it comes to about 30 mil coming off the books in one year. Give Ray like 10 mil and you still have 20 to pick up future talent and role players, then the next year theres a similar situation where Paul's 21 comes off.




Also: the best thing that Red did is that he never traded his players away for draft picks, if your winning championships the good players will want to come here.

another note: 2010 Joe Johnson becomes a free agent, so we could have a five of

Rondo
Joe Johnson
Pierce
KG
Perk

with Ray coming off the bench.

See, this is erroneous thinking. let's say Ray stays through next year, to the '10 offseason. That means that offseason we have 3 people under contract: KG, Pierce, Perkins. They come to 44 mil. There will be no 1st rounder in '09 but there will be in '10, but let's say we trade that and trade our 2nd rounders so we don't need to pay them. Let's say Rondo is extended at about 7 mil per year. Lets say that they even drop the Giddens option and keep only Walker. So then let's say they let Tony, Eddie, Scal, Powe, Pruitt, and Davis walk.

They'd be left with this:

Rondo
Pierce (33)
KG (34)
Perkins
Walker

No draft choices.

And the above 5 players would already be costing around 53 million dollars, which will probably be about 3-4 million under the cap. That means that if Ray stays, expires, and DOESN'T sign an extension, we would have 4 million to fill out the rest of the roster, then the 5.5 or so of the MLE as well. Of course if Ray signs at a major discount, but re-signs at 4 million or more per year, we could throw Ray into the above roster (giving us 6 players, 3 of whom are 33-35 years old), and 5.5 million for the rest of the roster.



The key concept several people don't get is this: If you lose 30 million dollars in contracts, you DO NOT get to spend 30 million on players. If you want to spend 30 million on players, you must be 30 million dollars BELOW the 55.5 million dollar salary cap, which, realistically, the Celtics will not be for several years. The Celtics' payroll is currently at 78 million, so they need to lose 20 million in salaries without adding any salary just to get TO the salary cap.

The only way the Celtics could realistically replace all 20 million dollars of Ray's contract with other players is by trading him BEFORE he expires, or finding a partner in the '10 offseason for a sign and trade (but who would want to receive a 35 year old allen to a max sign and trade?)

Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2009, 04:14:46 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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KG should be fine for this season. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end but it is possible. Hopefully we don't rush him back, and he comes back as healthy as ever. Maybe this time off will allow KG to rest and make him that much better in the playoffs.
So the downside is the Celtics Reign could be heading to an end. The upside is KG comes back better than he has been all season and the Celtics win. That is a pretty big disparity.
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Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2009, 05:05:40 PM »

Offline Cman

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The only way the Celtics could realistically replace all 20 million dollars of Ray's contract with other players is by trading him BEFORE he expires, or finding a partner in the '10 offseason for a sign and trade (but who would want to receive a 35 year old allen to a max sign and trade?)

As Roy (I think) mentioned in another thread, other than Ray Allen, the Celtics will have over $9M in expiring contracts next year to work with in any trades (Scal, House, Allen, Pruitt).  So, while the C's don't get to spend all sorts of $$$ on FA signings, they do get to be players in the trade market.
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Re: What if this is the end of the line for KG?
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2009, 05:39:40 PM »

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The only way the Celtics could realistically replace all 20 million dollars of Ray's contract with other players is by trading him BEFORE he expires, or finding a partner in the '10 offseason for a sign and trade (but who would want to receive a 35 year old allen to a max sign and trade?)

As Roy (I think) mentioned in another thread, other than Ray Allen, the Celtics will have over $9M in expiring contracts next year to work with in any trades (Scal, House, Allen, Pruitt).  So, while the C's don't get to spend all sorts of $$$ on FA signings, they do get to be players in the trade market.

Yes, i was speaking to the specific $20 million dollar amount that will NOT be available in free agency.