Is Jaylen Brown still a Celtic?

[playdream]

The idea that Brown isn't trying because he isn't getting stats is patently absurd. Who was it that shut down the Greek Freak almost all game? Who was shutting down Booker in the first half until he was put on TJ Warren because others were getting lit up by Warren? Who shut down Mitchell in the first half until he was switched to Ingles for most of the second half?  Who is always given the job to defend the best wing defender on the opposition causing his defensive rating to be higher? And who is usually given the easiest player to guard on the opposition? I will give you a hint, it's not the same guy that is the answer to all the other questions.

And as for his passing did you see that bounce pass down most of the length of the court to a wide open Hayward last night? What about all the excellent passes out to the perimeter when he drives and is cut off? Brown almost never is caught mid air not knowing what to do anymore. Brown's BBIQ is very good. He makes smarter plays year in and year out. And his handle is way better than his rookie year.

And Brown has been used mostly as a 4th or 5th option with the starters so of course his shots and scoring are down. And if Tatum is in a slump, then so is Brown. But at least Brown is taking mostly good shots. Tatum is passing up open threes to go iso and take awful mid range jumpers. If the ball sticks on any of the starting fives hands it's Tatum's so he can do his iso thing.

I have high hopes for both but neither is playing good overall basketball and one isn't really playing much better than the other.

People watch games and there is a reason people don't say things like
''This is Brown's team now and Kyrie is in Brown's shadow'' or ''Is Tatum still a Celtic?''
I know you like Brown, we all do, but saying Brown has been playing likely as good as Tatum is just absurd

[nickagneta]

The idea that Brown isn't trying because he isn't getting stats is patently absurd. Who was it that shut down the Greek Freak almost all game? Who was shutting down Booker in the first half until he was put on TJ Warren because others were getting lit up by Warren? Who shut down Mitchell in the first half until he was switched to Ingles for most of the second half?  Who is always given the job to defend the best wing defender on the opposition causing his defensive rating to be higher? And who is usually given the easiest player to guard on the opposition? I will give you a hint, it's not the same guy that is the answer to all the other questions.

And as for his passing did you see that bounce pass down most of the length of the court to a wide open Hayward last night? What about all the excellent passes out to the perimeter when he drives and is cut off? Brown almost never is caught mid air not knowing what to do anymore. Brown's BBIQ is very good. He makes smarter plays year in and year out. And his handle is way better than his rookie year.

And Brown has been used mostly as a 4th or 5th option with the starters so of course his shots and scoring are down. And if Tatum is in a slump, then so is Brown. But at least Brown is taking mostly good shots. Tatum is passing up open threes to go iso and take awful mid range jumpers. If the ball sticks on any of the starting fives hands it's Tatum's so he can do his iso thing.

I have high hopes for both but neither is playing good overall basketball and one isn't really playing much better than the other.

People watch games and there is a reason people don't say things like
''This is Brown's team now and Kyrie is in Brown's shadow'' or ''Is Tatum still a Celtic?''
I know you like Brown, we all do, but saying Brown has been playing likely as good as Tatum is just absurd

I said overall game. Given the massive difference in how they play defense, Brown's defensive superiority makes up for Tatum's offensive superiority. Therefore, they are playing equally bad. And if you look at the twos last six games, their offensive contributions have been about the same. Brown started off horrid but has been getting progressively better since game 6.

[SHAQATTACK]

Does anybody remember Lebron’s first season with the Heat? Everybody was tentative with their roles, including Lebron and Wade. Too much deference to others.

That’s what we’re seeing here. Either Kyrie or Hayward needs to step up as the alpha.

agree

Not having "THE " leader , so everybody can fall i to line is a bad deal.   Everybody is watching and waiting to see what happens.   

Basically they have had awful ON CoURT leadership.   Every game i watch I see no real leader .....like IT used to stick his chest out and take charge . 

Al is like a wise old elder on the team .....he is someone to look up to and get advise from ....but he isn't a impact leader .  On occassion he gets emotional and wins a game. 

The team looks lost on the court , like they aren 't sure what they want to do. 

I miss that kid they let go to turkey .  He played a great style to set up star players .  Rozier just does!'t have true point guard mentality.  He wants to be a 2

[keevsnick]

Ya I don't know about the effort argument. To me he looks like he is trying. He still locks down quite a bit on defense, and he attacks the basket more than anybody on the team. So I'm not sure why people seem to think his effort is a problem, I'd disagree pretty strongly with that. I also don't think its fair to say hes regressed across the board. I think both his ball handling and passing are better than last year for example, he certainly does a better job looking for people off dribble penetration or in transition. He is taking a 5% less of his shots at the rim and about 5% more in the mid range, but that looks like its changing in recent games. 

I think a large part of the problem is that right now pretty much nothing is going in for him. He is shooting 36.8 from the field and 27.7 from three. Anybody who shoots like that is gonna look awful. I also think those numbers will improve, mostly because its almost impossible to be that bad on a large enough sample size unless you are Marcus Smart, but also because Jaylen has shown he can hit at rim shots (career 62%) and three pointers (career 37%) at a a good clip, he is still taking a lot of those shots, and those averages from him are improvable even from his career marks. Its not like his looks have been cosnistently terrible. He still gets by his man a lot, he seems to have improved his dribble driving, he generates good separation, then he misses. I think those misses are more likely than not gonna start falling. Even his threes are often pretty open, he just keeps missing. Which is also a problem that has plagued the team as a whole, we miss a lot of open shots.

In short, Jaylen has to start making shots. I think he will.

[Kuberski33]

Biggest issue I still see with Jaylen is his handle (and by extension his hands) is below average. What concerns me a little is that's one thing I'm not sure you can improve with practice.  It might get in the way of him ever being as good as many here think he can be.

[playdream]

1.
I don't really know if the problem is too much defer to others, it looks like they just can't make
wide open 3s and easy layups, maybe it's because they are focusing on new teammates/schemes, either way it shouldn't last forever

2.
As above i'm not worried about Brown's shot, but more about his BBIQ to hinder his overall progress, in the Suns game he lost two not difficult rebound bounced to him and get blocked wide open under the basket, that kind of thing is...just not acceptable

[Celtics4ever]

Agree, Playdream the deferring to each other should not be affecting our shots.   TP

Two things I would like to see us do.

1) Our shooting needs to improve
2) Quit acting like we are GS and dogging it thinking we can turn it on when we want too and play the whole game

This is not all on Brown.   People who think that are myopic in their basketball IQ.  Scapegoating is what someone does when they want to find someone to blame rather than fix the problem

[cman88]

1.
I don't really know if the problem is too much defer to others, it looks like they just can't make
wide open 3s and easy layups, maybe it's because they are focusing on new teammates/schemes, either way it shouldn't last forever

2.
As above i'm not worried about Brown's shot, but more about his BBIQ to hinder his overall progress, in the Suns game he lost two not difficult rebound bounced to him and get blocked wide open under the basket, that kind of thing is...just not acceptable

Celtics players not named Kyrie/Morris are all shooting below their career averages. I would have to think at some point that will come back to the median.

[Birdman]

Wouldnt sign him long term likke they did with Smart

[Moranis]

Stevens moved the wrong guy to the bench.  Brown has no business starting and hasn't all season long.  And frankly, Baynes hasn't been any better.  It is time to go small with Irving, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford. 

[Who]

Stevens moved the wrong guy to the bench.  Brown has no business starting and hasn't all season long.  And frankly, Baynes hasn't been any better.  It is time to go small with Irving, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford.

I am reluctant to send Jaylen to the bench because his defense has been so good. He is a guy who can impact a game without scoring and Boston's starting lineup needs more of that. Not less. He is also someone who will run the floor hard for layups and drive to the basket in the halfcourt. Those are things I want to see more of from the team.

[Moranis]

Stevens moved the wrong guy to the bench.  Brown has no business starting and hasn't all season long.  And frankly, Baynes hasn't been any better.  It is time to go small with Irving, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford.

I am reluctant to send Jaylen to the bench because his defense has been so good. He is a guy who can impact a game without scoring and Boston's starting lineup needs more of that. Not less. He is also someone who will run the floor hard for layups and drive to the basket in the halfcourt. Those are things I want to see more of from the team.

Sure, but Boston is losing games because the offense is so bad and the opposing PG is having field days.  Brown is a big part of the former and has no effect on the latter. 

[gouki88]

Stevens moved the wrong guy to the bench.  Brown has no business starting and hasn't all season long.  And frankly, Baynes hasn't been any better.  It is time to go small with Irving, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford.

Been with you on this for a while

[celtics4ever33]

Stevens moved the wrong guy to the bench.  Brown has no business starting and hasn't all season long.  And frankly, Baynes hasn't been any better.  It is time to go small with Irving, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford.

Been with you on this for a while

2 games in and you will want Smart back to the bench as well.

[gouki88]

Stevens moved the wrong guy to the bench.  Brown has no business starting and hasn't all season long.  And frankly, Baynes hasn't been any better.  It is time to go small with Irving, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford.

Been with you on this for a while

2 games in and you will want Smart back to the bench as well.

Didn’t know you could tell the future. He’d add more offensively and is a better team defender and defends guards better, plus he doesn’t disengage like JB does