Author Topic: Scalabrine Went On The FOX Sports Shows And Lit Everyone Up Regarding Kyrie  (Read 4106 times)

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Re: Scalabrine Went On The FOX Sports Shows And Lit Everyone Up Regarding Kyrie
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2019, 04:47:01 PM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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did they not just beat Philly without Kyrie?

Yes. We also beat Philly two other times this season with Kyrie.

so what exactly is this point that we need Kyrie to beat good teams?

Well that's a sample size of 1 this year. Because I look at the games we have played against top caliber teams this season and see what his impact has been in those games. He's our most reliable closer, nobody else comes close when it comes to getting us a bucket when we need it in a close game (pardon the pun).

What surprises me is how many people say "well look at how the others play without him, he must be holding them back" and the proposal to fix it is to remove the best player from the team. Instead I think we should be putting this on them, they have to figure out how to play better, while understanding that "playing better" doesn't necessarily mean scoring more points, but in shooting better, assisting better, etc.

It really comes down to style. Kyrie touches and dribbles the ball more than anyone in our team other than Brad Wanamaker. As a result people think he's a ballstopper and doesn't pass the ball:



But if you look at him in the context of the league overall he's not even in the top 30 in terms of touches (I had to make the font tiny to accommodate him):



I'm sure someone will come up with stats that prove he is a ball hog and that's fine. That's really the crux of all this for people - if you like Kyrie's style you will think he adds value to the team and nothing anyone will say will change your mind, and vice versa for those who don't. Good players tend to polarize more often than not.

Isn't that time per touch and not total touches?

So if Kyrie gets a pass and hands the ball off immediately then gets the ball back off a screen and dribbles for 8 seconds and scores that's still basically a 4 seconds average per touch. So he can still hold the ball for a longer time and still maintain a low average of time per touch.

And that list, in all honesty, only Harden and some extent Chris Paul seem to be "ball-stoppers" to me.

I think a better stat would be a list of players with #'s of iso's and time of possession for those iso's.

Re: Scalabrine Went On The FOX Sports Shows And Lit Everyone Up Regarding Kyrie
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2019, 04:54:23 PM »

Offline ozgod

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did they not just beat Philly without Kyrie?

Yes. We also beat Philly two other times this season with Kyrie.

so what exactly is this point that we need Kyrie to beat good teams?

Well that's a sample size of 1 this year. Because I look at the games we have played against top caliber teams this season and see what his impact has been in those games. He's our most reliable closer, nobody else comes close when it comes to getting us a bucket when we need it in a close game (pardon the pun).

What surprises me is how many people say "well look at how the others play without him, he must be holding them back" and the proposal to fix it is to remove the best player from the team. Instead I think we should be putting this on them, they have to figure out how to play better, while understanding that "playing better" doesn't necessarily mean scoring more points, but in shooting better, assisting better, etc.

It really comes down to style. Kyrie touches and dribbles the ball more than anyone in our team other than Brad Wanamaker. As a result people think he's a ballstopper and doesn't pass the ball:



But if you look at him in the context of the league overall he's not even in the top 30 in terms of touches (I had to make the font tiny to accommodate him):



I'm sure someone will come up with stats that prove he is a ball hog and that's fine. That's really the crux of all this for people - if you like Kyrie's style you will think he adds value to the team and nothing anyone will say will change your mind, and vice versa for those who don't. Good players tend to polarize more often than not.

Isn't that time per touch and not total touches?

So if Kyrie gets a pass and hands the ball off immediately then gets the ball back off a screen and dribbles for 8 seconds and scores that's still basically a 4 seconds average per touch. So he can still hold the ball for a longer time and still maintain a low average of time per touch.

And that list, in all honesty, only Harden and some extent Chris Paul seem to be "ball-stoppers" to me.

I think a better stat would be a list of players with #'s of iso's and time of possession for those iso's.

You can sort it by total touches, I just happened to sort it by time per touch as that was what people always complained about with Kyrie. The query is here for anyone who wants to re-sort by different columns:

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=TOUCHES&dir=1

I looked for stats per iso but unfortunately it's not available on nba.com...you can get it from Synergy Sports which is a paid service for teams but I'd rather not pay a fortune just to prove a point  :laugh:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D