Author Topic: We are trying to do to much  (Read 1995 times)

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We are trying to do to much
« on: November 13, 2018, 03:06:33 AM »

Offline Androslav

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During our challenging start of the season, I noticed that we are trying to achieve too many things simultaneously. What do I mean by that?

Here are some of the tenets;

- Integrate high usage player, GH, in the offense while he is on 25 min restriction and recovering of a tough injury.
- Continue to develop young wings, Brown and Tatum, while still aiming high.
- Trying to keep Rozier ready and in the last season's form, not diminishing his PT too much.
- Give Morris the ball and enough minutes as he is a proud player performing at a high level.
- BTW, Kyrie and Al need the ball in the midst of all and they are without a doubt the smartest offensive players on the squad. They started the year somewhat reserved, making room for the aforementioned, but we are clearly better with the more touches they get.
- Keep Smarts minutes near his career average. We are not a rebuilding team anymore, but this policy is still in place

The things we are trying to achieve simultaneously take a toll on the results this early in the year. Maybe we will simplify the schemes or even go away from one of these priorities, but for now -
We are trying to do too much.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2018, 07:35:09 AM »

Offline Green-18

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I agree with you for the most part.  Of everything you listed I would point toward Brown, Tatum, Kyrie, and Horford as the dynamic that needs to change for the short term.  This team functioned at its best last year when Kyrie and Horford set the tone with an aggressive mindset.  Tatum and Brown were able to simplify the game and pick their spots.  As the season progressed they were able to expand their roles. 

I'm convinced that Al's shooting struggles can be attributed to a passive mindset.  We have seen this issue come up in the past.  Maybe it would help if Baynes moved into the starting lineup.


 

Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2018, 08:05:46 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I agree to some extent but I think at the end of the day, we simply have to shoot better and it looks like Morris was the only guy to work on his craft in the offseason.

At some point when you try to please everyone you please no one and the results do not add up on the court.   We should play to win and let the chips fall where they may.

Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2018, 09:49:07 AM »

Offline Androslav

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I agree to some extent but I think at the end of the day, we simply have to shoot better and it looks like Morris was the only guy to work on his craft in the offseason.

At some point when you try to please everyone you please no one and the results do not add up on the court.   We should play to win and let the chips fall where they may.
My point was that we are not fully committed to winning now.
We are developing, integrating and analyzing at this point.
IMO, it is a proper time to do so.
As the year nears its end, changes, win-now mode, will come I am sure.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2018, 10:47:50 AM »

Offline CF033

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I agree and I think a big integration mixed with a tough road trip to start the season has lead us to a 7-6 beginning to the season.

Our schedule is finally calming down and besides the Raptors on Friday we should get a few easy wins in the upcoming games (keyword is should). I do hope we bring our 'A' game on Friday and take the Raptors down.

Despite expressing frustration in other threads I do think we are slowly learning how to work with these guys and certain players are starting to come to life after a really tough start to the season.

Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2018, 11:03:40 AM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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I agree with this. Maybe Stevens needs to go back to simple things. There are a lot of different agendas on this team. Someone needs to step in or step up and get everyone on the same page. I think Stevens is trying to make everyone happy instead of just coaching to win games.

Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2018, 11:03:41 AM »

Offline Big333223

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This is probably true.

I think the strength of the last two years' teams was the everyone knew their role. Roles aren't clear on this team right now. I thought the playmaking and willingness to pass would work that out but so far it hasn't. Maybe it'll just take time but I think it's clear that the roles on this roster are not as well defined as they have been in the past and that's hurting.
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Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2018, 11:10:55 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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I agree to some extent but I think at the end of the day, we simply have to shoot better and it looks like Morris was the only guy to work on his craft in the offseason.

At some point when you try to please everyone you please no one and the results do not add up on the court.   We should play to win and let the chips fall where they may.
I agree with that, TP.  I do not want to minimize the chemistry and "new team meshing" issues, but we would not be having this conversation with better FG%.  The defense has been good for the most part and that takes A LOT more chemistry to get right.

Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 12:08:56 PM »

Offline wiley

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TP to OP. 

Describes well what it looks like to watch C's bball so far this year. 
It's an icky feeling to watch a team try to hard to be perfect instead of simple.  I'm sure it'll get better as Brad shifts the focus to winning instead of learning and tweaking and testing, not that he's not trying to win as well right now...

KGBirdbias thread about starting Iriving, Smart, Hayward, Horford and Baynes (or Morris Horford up front depending)  was appealing because it would address this trying to do too much thing for the moment.  But Brad will hopefully simplify things his own way...

Nice to see Morris is playing aggressively and simply.....natural.  Not too heady...Of course the team needs a balance of heady and aggressive...that's what makes basketball so interesting to me...

Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 12:19:58 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I agree, the offense needs to be simpler. 

The Celts seem to spend a lot of the early game trying to run their elaborate sets, which results in overpassing and/or sets that end in wide open shots for the poorest shooters on the floor.

Then, when trying too hard to run the complex offense doesn't work, they revert to a lot of iso and standing around, which only works if Kyrie gets hot, and even then it often isn't enough.
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Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2018, 05:22:59 PM »

Online hwangjini_1

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I agree, the offense needs to be simpler. 

The Celts seem to spend a lot of the early game trying to run their elaborate sets, which results in overpassing and/or sets that end in wide open shots for the poorest shooters on the floor.

Then, when trying too hard to run the complex offense doesn't work, they revert to a lot of iso and standing around, which only works if Kyrie gets hot, and even then it often isn't enough.
this does not seem to be accurate. the celtics are among the nba leaders in getting wide open shots. all celtics are getting open. they are just missing their shots.

the offenses do work, as attested to be the number of wide open shots the team is getting. the problem is, again, celtics not making those shots. the team is among the league worst in that category.
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Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2018, 07:13:46 PM »

Offline 10610786d

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The first main problem is a good chunk of our cap space, playing time are going to Gordon Hayward, who is coming back from an injury. According to Locked On Celtics everyone has been a minus when he's on the floor, except for Tatum.

Do we bench Hayward? Hell no. We need to ease him back into the role he'll eventually be playing.

The second main problem is we're trying to integrate everyone into a new offense. We could score everytime without problem if we'd just run Kyrie pick and rolls all the time. Instead, we're generating a bunch of open looks, but guys aren't feeling each others' rhythms.

Should we change this? Hell no. Once the players adjust to each other and this new offense, we will be unstoppable.

Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2018, 07:24:38 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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this does not seem to be accurate. the celtics are among the nba leaders in getting wide open shots. all celtics are getting open. they are just missing their shots.

Are they?  I haven't seen a break down of who is getting what percentage of these open shots.

Subjectively I recall a lot of open jumpers for Baynes, Semi, Smart ... Horford is also getting a good number of shots and is clanking many of them.


I think it's fair to expect Horford and Jaylen to improve their outside shooting by a significant amount.  We should also expect regression from Morris.


Hayward, Semi, Smart, Baynes, Theis ... I don't really expect much outside shooting improvement from these guys.  Hayward may up his percentages eventually, but I think we should temper our expectations on his scoring efficiency for the foreseeable future.

The Celts should either have those five guys take fewer shots or figure out how to get them looks in the paint.
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Re: We are trying to do to much
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2018, 07:35:05 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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On the subject of doing too much -- or doing the wrong thing -- I would draw attention to the following:

Jayson Tatum is attempting almost 9 shots inside the 3 point line per game, and is only hitting 42.6% of those shots.

Jaylen Brown is attempting 7.4 shots inside the 3 point line, and is only hitting 41.6% of those shots.

Terry Rozier is taking 4.4 shots inside three and is shooting a ghastly 35.1%.


All three of these players, especially Tatum, should be scoring with much greater efficiency on these looks.  The biggest problem, I suspect, is that a lot of these two point looks are in the 10-20 feet range, instead of near or at the rim.

If these three guys get into the paint more and either score or get fouled there, the Celts' should see their offensive efficiency improve substantially.
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