Author Topic: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)  (Read 89242 times)

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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2013, 11:49:08 AM »

Offline Who

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This feels a bit like the Nets-Bulls playoff series from last season to me.

Cleveland the dogged defensive team grinding their opponent down (Bulls). New York with multiple weapons and lots more firepower (Z-Bo, Brook, Kev Martin vs Deron, Brook, JJ) but struggling to match their opponents effort, commitment and defensive intensity (Brooklyn).

Not sure Larry Sanders moves New York far enough from that Brooklyn Nets comparison. Especially if KG is on him playing free safety on defense and making life hell for the rest of Brooklyn's lineup. Does L.Sanders add enough to put New York over the top?

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2013, 11:50:03 AM »

Online Roy H.

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How does the Al Horford vs Brook Lopez matchup play out?

Historically, it's been about dead even.  Lopez scores about two more points, Horford averages about three more rebounds.  Both have shot at a high percentage.

I like keeping Horford on Lopez more than I do KG.  Lopez is one of the few guys that KG has had some struggles with consistently.

The good thing about Cleveland is that if one player is proving ineffective, they can always switch to the other for awhile.


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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2013, 12:20:12 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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This is a tough call. I think Cleveland but if New York goes with starting ZBo and having sanders come off the bench I think they have a better shot at winning. Gonna have to hear what everyone says. really tough to decide on this one.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2013, 12:23:20 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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This feels a bit like the Nets-Bulls playoff series from last season to me.

Cleveland the dogged defensive team grinding their opponent down (Bulls). New York with multiple weapons and lots more firepower (Z-Bo, Brook, Kev Martin vs Deron, Brook, JJ) but struggling to match their opponents effort, commitment and defensive intensity (Brooklyn).

Not sure Larry Sanders moves New York far enough from that Brooklyn Nets comparison. Especially if KG is on him playing free safety on defense and making life hell for the rest of Brooklyn's lineup. Does L.Sanders add enough to put New York over the top?

Again. If Sanders is some how ineffective, which I dont think he will be, Randolph comes off the bench and who stops a duo down low of Randolph and Lopez? Horford and KG aren't game changers on offense anymore so those two can easily keep up with the both of them on defense while wearing them down and constantly banging downlow.

If Sanders is in the game and Horford guards Lopez, I have no problem with them putting KG on Sanders. They can let KG be the roamer but Sanders is going to thrive in that situation with his athleticism. He can slash and cut to the open lanes and will be getting open oops galore down low. I think its a win win all around for NYK.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2013, 12:36:57 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Also.

In times when Sanders and KG are on the court together, Sanders averages are 10% great than normal where as KG's are 10% below his normal numbers. Sanders shot 73% from the field against KG. 15-19 in the paint. And he is worst offensively of the trio downlow. Advantage Sanders.

Randolph vs KG: are fairly even with ZBo's plus minus being +8.2 on the court together as opposed to KG's -8.2. Advantage slightly ZBo.

Lopez vs KG: Again Lopez has a +5.1 to KG's -5.1

Also. Statistics show Horford plays better when each of these three players are on the bench. Something that wont happen, as at least two of the trio will most likely be playing together on the court at the same time.

And one last point to add about Martin shooting over Allen. In 2 games against Allen last year Martin averaged 20 points per 36 minutes against him while shooting 50% from the 3 line. He was also a +22.5 to Allen's -22.5 on the court together. Martin will just be able to stretch the floor and hit the long ball over Allen without problem.

Those are the types of stats that completely favor the Knicks in this match up. Downlow, the Cavs just dont have a chance. And with Martin, Green, and Hinrich waiting outside for KG's double teams, the Knicks should have no problem with this Cavs team.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 12:49:56 PM by pearljammer10 »

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2013, 12:38:48 PM »

Online Roy H.

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This is a tough call. I think Cleveland but if New York goes with starting ZBo and having sanders come off the bench I think they have a better shot at winning. Gonna have to hear what everyone says. really tough to decide on this one.

That's interesting.  I think a Lopez / Randolph front line is poor enough defensively that it more than negates any scoring advantage New York would get.


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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2013, 12:46:00 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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This is a tough call. I think Cleveland but if New York goes with starting ZBo and having sanders come off the bench I think they have a better shot at winning. Gonna have to hear what everyone says. really tough to decide on this one.

That's interesting.  I think a Lopez / Randolph front line is poor enough defensively that it more than negates any scoring advantage New York would get.

Maybe in a more difficult match up, but against KG/Horford? Not worried there.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2013, 12:49:25 PM »

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And one last point to add about Martin shooting over Allen. In 2 games against Allen last year Martin averaged 20 points per 36 minutes against him while shooting 50% from the 3 line. He was also a +22.5 to Allen's -22.5 on the court together. Martin will just be able to stretch the floor and hit the long ball over Allen without problem.
Didn't they play each other in the playoffs last year? Memphis and OKC?

I don't remember Kevin Martin doing much in that series. I remember him as having a disappointing series. Not able to put his stamps on games.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2013, 12:53:35 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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This is a tough call. I think Cleveland but if New York goes with starting ZBo and having sanders come off the bench I think they have a better shot at winning. Gonna have to hear what everyone says. really tough to decide on this one.

That's interesting.  I think a Lopez / Randolph front line is poor enough defensively that it more than negates any scoring advantage New York would get.
I'm not so sure. With KG being primarily a perimeter player nowadays, and I am assuming even more so this coming year, ZBo can play him outside without having to worry about KG going by him. Randolph has the length to at least hinder KGs shots some hoping to make them less effective. I just don't see Sanders being able to guard KG's perimeter jumpers all that much better than ZBo can.

So is Sanders ability to help back on Horford really so much better than Randolph's that it would make up for what I believe would be a significant increase in offensive production from Sanders to Randolph? I don't think it is.

KG, for better or worse, plays 15-22 feet away from the basket 90% of the time now and doesn't have the speed to get past defenders playing him tight. But at 7'1" and a massive wingspan, there is almost no one that can stop his outside jumper, Sanders included. So start Zbo, have him guard KG outside and take the extra offensive boost it gives you.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2013, 12:54:59 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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And one last point to add about Martin shooting over Allen. In 2 games against Allen last year Martin averaged 20 points per 36 minutes against him while shooting 50% from the 3 line. He was also a +22.5 to Allen's -22.5 on the court together. Martin will just be able to stretch the floor and hit the long ball over Allen without problem.
Didn't they play each other in the playoffs last year? Memphis and OKC?

I don't remember Kevin Martin doing much in that series. I remember him as having a disappointing series. Not able to put his stamps on games.

Martin played 5 games against the Griz in the playoffs averaging his usual 14 a game 42% from the field and 35% from three. In one game he was 2 - 11 with 6 points. Taking that game out and keeping stats from the other 4, Martin averaged 17 a game, 47% from the field and shot 42% from three.

For a 4th option behind green, zbo and lopez I'll take that.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2013, 12:55:35 PM »

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This is a tough call. I think Cleveland but if New York goes with starting ZBo and having sanders come off the bench I think they have a better shot at winning. Gonna have to hear what everyone says. really tough to decide on this one.

That's interesting.  I think a Lopez / Randolph front line is poor enough defensively that it more than negates any scoring advantage New York would get.

Maybe in a more difficult match up, but against KG/Horford? Not worried there.

Horford is an excellent scorer, and KG outscored Randolph on a per-minute basis last year (and was more efficient, too).

Plus, Randolph/Lopez also has to worry about penetration from Lawson, Tony, Wallace, and Crawford.  While neither Tony or Wallace is going to turn into an elite scorer all of a sudden, both have shown the ability to get to the hoop.  Even if the lack of interior defense accounts for a couple of extra fouls and a couple of extra buckets a game, that could be huge.


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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2013, 01:07:00 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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This is a tough call. I think Cleveland but if New York goes with starting ZBo and having sanders come off the bench I think they have a better shot at winning. Gonna have to hear what everyone says. really tough to decide on this one.

That's interesting.  I think a Lopez / Randolph front line is poor enough defensively that it more than negates any scoring advantage New York would get.

Maybe in a more difficult match up, but against KG/Horford? Not worried there.

Horford is an excellent scorer, and KG outscored Randolph on a per-minute basis last year (and was more efficient, too).

Plus, Randolph/Lopez also has to worry about penetration from Lawson, Tony, Wallace, and Crawford.  While neither Tony or Wallace is going to turn into an elite scorer all of a sudden, both have shown the ability to get to the hoop.  Even if the lack of interior defense accounts for a couple of extra fouls and a couple of extra buckets a game, that could be huge.

Still. The Randolph KG match was only 1 game last year. Even still Randolph still had the +8.2 while they were on the court together.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2013, 01:11:58 PM »

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This is a tough call. I think Cleveland but if New York goes with starting ZBo and having sanders come off the bench I think they have a better shot at winning. Gonna have to hear what everyone says. really tough to decide on this one.

That's interesting.  I think a Lopez / Randolph front line is poor enough defensively that it more than negates any scoring advantage New York would get.

Maybe in a more difficult match up, but against KG/Horford? Not worried there.

Horford is an excellent scorer, and KG outscored Randolph on a per-minute basis last year (and was more efficient, too).

Plus, Randolph/Lopez also has to worry about penetration from Lawson, Tony, Wallace, and Crawford.  While neither Tony or Wallace is going to turn into an elite scorer all of a sudden, both have shown the ability to get to the hoop.  Even if the lack of interior defense accounts for a couple of extra fouls and a couple of extra buckets a game, that could be huge.

Still. The Randolph KG match was only 1 game last year. Even still Randolph still had the +8.2 while they were on the court together.

Sorry, I meant that for the entire season, KG scored at a greater rate and at a higher efficiency than Randolph did.


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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2013, 01:19:11 PM »

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I see Cleveland as a clear favorite here.  Cleveland's weakness is their lack of firepower but I don't see enough D out there for the Knicks to exploit it.  In particular, NY doesn't have the backcourt defense to slow Lawson down, which opens things up for the rest of the Cavs offensively. 

Knicks have some fine players, and I ranked them highly in the regular season, but the soft defense, lack of a clear #1 guy, and little playoff experience make it difficult to hang with Cleveland's gritty play for a 7 gamer. 

I am still open to hearing arguments, but the Cavs look to have more of the traits that win playoff series than the Knicks do.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2013, 01:52:51 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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Hello from air and AB's room!

A few pieces of defense of the Cavs here, while I'm still unpacking...

1. Our versatility defensively will be an asset in this series. The Knicks have elite scorers at every position except PG, and we have elite defenders at every position (except PG ;D). Coach Hollins will have the versatility to increase Gerald Wallace's minutes - or even start him - to limit Jeff Green. If Z.Bo becomes a force off the bench, Hollins can quickly sub out Garnett in the first quarter so that his minutes line up with Z.Bo's. We have a ton of flexibility defensively.

2. Once again, we have more desire and know-how to win than the Knicks. KG - as arguably the smartest player in this entire series - will lead the Cavs to victory on more than one occasion. The Knicks, as balanced at they are with their starting lineup and bench, are extremely inexperienced, and this will hurt them.

3. Ty Lawson will go off in this series. Rubio's defense has always been weak, and Lawson's quickness will be hard for him to handle. I'm expecting around 20 ppg in this series from Ty, maybe more.


I have to get back to unpacking. Sorry I can't be more present during this round, but I'll leave you one last thought courtesy of my buddy ron...

In another note I definitely see Cleveland beating New York/Boston.