2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: Indiana(1) vs Atlanta(4)

[nickagneta]

So, is Champ's team so far off from IP's Finals squad last year, that a lot of misguided folks thought was invincible?

C: Nene > Haywood
PF: Boozer and Bosh are comparable talents.  Boozer is a bit more sturdy in the post; Bosh has a bit more length.
SF: Pierce = Pierce (roughly)
SG: Wade = Wade (roughly)
PG: Holiday > Jameer, by a comfortable margin

IP had a better bench, certainly.  However, I see the two starting lineups as very similar, with IP's team being only slightly better.

It's interesting how one team is a Finals loser, and the other is seen by many as an afterthought.  Is it simply due to lack of marketing?

Except that was before everyone saw Pierce and Wade slowed considerably in this year's playoffs, nagging injuries and age seeming starting to take its toll. Projecting another year and long regular season ahead, I think it fair to expect them to possibly take another step back.

So I don't think Wade = Wade or Pierce = Pierce even roughly because the first Wade and Pierce were being evaluated on the 2011-12 season and 2012 playoffs and people didn't evaluate them correctly because in real life they were much less than that. Now the second Wade and Pierce are being evaluated and you have to now, because of past degeneration of game, extrapolate another loss of step, lack of jump, and loss of defensive ability and scoring efficiency. It makes the 2014 CBD playoff Wade and Pierce so much less than last year's, IMHO.

I also don't think IP had a mid level college program coach coaching his team, he had HOF coach Pat Riley.

And Thad Young, Tiago Splitter, Jarrett Jack, Chandler Parsons is a major major upgrade over this Atlanta team's bench. Major

[Roy H.]

So, is Champ's team so far off from IP's Finals squad last year, that a lot of misguided folks thought was invincible?

C: Nene > Haywood
PF: Boozer and Bosh are comparable talents.  Boozer is a bit more sturdy in the post; Bosh has a bit more length.
SF: Pierce = Pierce (roughly)
SG: Wade = Wade (roughly)
PG: Holiday > Jameer, by a comfortable margin

IP had a better bench, certainly.  However, I see the two starting lineups as very similar, with IP's team being only slightly better.

It's interesting how one team is a Finals loser, and the other is seen by many as an afterthought.  Is it simply due to lack of marketing?

Except that was before everyone saw Pierce and Wade slowed considerably in this year's playoffs, nagging injuries and age seeming starting to take its toll. Projecting another year and long regular season ahead, I think it fair to expect them to possibly take another step back.

So I don't think Wade = Wade or Pierce = Pierce even roughly because the first Wade and Pierce were being evaluated on the season and 2012 playoffs and people didn't evaluate them correctly because in real life they were much less than that. Now the second Wade and Pierce are being evaluated and you have to now, because of past degeneration of game, extrapolate another loss of step, lack of jump, and loss of defensive ability and scoring efficiency. It makes the 2014 CBD playoff wade and Pierce so much less than last year's, IMHO.

I also don't think IP had a mid level college program coach coaching his team, he had HOF coach Pat Riley.

All that said, the Champ squad is only slightly inferior to IP's.

IP's squad took The Best CB Draft Team Ever Assembled (Voting Era Only) to 6 or 7 games.

... The Fake Mavs would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that IP's team would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that, because Champ's team is only slightly worse than IP's team, it's likely that Champ's team would stomp all over this Indiana team.

[nickagneta]

So, is Champ's team so far off from IP's Finals squad last year, that a lot of misguided folks thought was invincible?

C: Nene > Haywood
PF: Boozer and Bosh are comparable talents.  Boozer is a bit more sturdy in the post; Bosh has a bit more length.
SF: Pierce = Pierce (roughly)
SG: Wade = Wade (roughly)
PG: Holiday > Jameer, by a comfortable margin

IP had a better bench, certainly.  However, I see the two starting lineups as very similar, with IP's team being only slightly better.

It's interesting how one team is a Finals loser, and the other is seen by many as an afterthought.  Is it simply due to lack of marketing?

Except that was before everyone saw Pierce and Wade slowed considerably in this year's playoffs, nagging injuries and age seeming starting to take its toll. Projecting another year and long regular season ahead, I think it fair to expect them to possibly take another step back.

So I don't think Wade = Wade or Pierce = Pierce even roughly because the first Wade and Pierce were being evaluated on the season and 2012 playoffs and people didn't evaluate them correctly because in real life they were much less than that. Now the second Wade and Pierce are being evaluated and you have to now, because of past degeneration of game, extrapolate another loss of step, lack of jump, and loss of defensive ability and scoring efficiency. It makes the 2014 CBD playoff wade and Pierce so much less than last year's, IMHO.

I also don't think IP had a mid level college program coach coaching his team, he had HOF coach Pat Riley.

All that said, the Champ squad is only slightly inferior to IP's.

IP's squad took The Best CB Draft Team Ever Assembled (Voting Era Only) to 6 or 7 games.

... The Fake Mavs would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that IP's team would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that, because Champ's team is only slightly worse than IP's team, it's likely that Champ's team would stomp all over this Indiana team.

You missed my edit regarding the bench. This Atlanta team is nowhere near as good as IP's Bulls team from last year. Not close

And the best team of the modern era CB Draft is still the DinoBoxerbots that got hornswaggled out of a championship over anti-Lebron bias. 

[Rondo2287]

So, is Champ's team so far off from IP's Finals squad last year, that a lot of misguided folks thought was invincible?

C: Nene > Haywood
PF: Boozer and Bosh are comparable talents.  Boozer is a bit more sturdy in the post; Bosh has a bit more length.
SF: Pierce = Pierce (roughly)
SG: Wade = Wade (roughly)
PG: Holiday > Jameer, by a comfortable margin

IP had a better bench, certainly.  However, I see the two starting lineups as very similar, with IP's team being only slightly better.

It's interesting how one team is a Finals loser, and the other is seen by many as an afterthought.  Is it simply due to lack of marketing?

I think Pierce took a major step back at the end of last season.  The pierce we saw in the playoffs was a shell of his former self.  Just a few years ago Pierce was shooting the ball better than I have ever seen him.  Then last year he couldnt throw it in the ocean. 

I also think Bosh is decently better player than Boozer.  There was a reason boozer was the concelation prize in free agency that year.  Boozer is a weaker defender, rebounder, and I personally like Bosh's offensive game better than boozers but both are solid on offense.  (I just like stretch 4's personally and I think Bosh's range out to the three point line is very valuable)

[Roy H.]

And the best team of the modern era CB Draft is still the DinoBoxerbots that got hornswaggled out of a championship over anti-Lebron bias. 

Nah.  We had Championship Lebron + Kyrie Irving.  You had Perennial Choker Lebron + Brandon Jennings.

[indeedproceed]

So, is Champ's team so far off from IP's Finals squad last year, that a lot of misguided folks thought was invincible?

C: Nene > Haywood
PF: Boozer and Bosh are comparable talents.  Boozer is a bit more sturdy in the post; Bosh has a bit more length.
SF: Pierce = Pierce (roughly)
SG: Wade = Wade (roughly)
PG: Holiday > Jameer, by a comfortable margin

IP had a better bench, certainly.  However, I see the two starting lineups as very similar, with IP's team being only slightly better.

It's interesting how one team is a Finals loser, and the other is seen by many as an afterthought.  Is it simply due to lack of marketing?

Except that was before everyone saw Pierce and Wade slowed considerably in this year's playoffs, nagging injuries and age seeming starting to take its toll. Projecting another year and long regular season ahead, I think it fair to expect them to possibly take another step back.

So I don't think Wade = Wade or Pierce = Pierce even roughly because the first Wade and Pierce were being evaluated on the season and 2012 playoffs and people didn't evaluate them correctly because in real life they were much less than that. Now the second Wade and Pierce are being evaluated and you have to now, because of past degeneration of game, extrapolate another loss of step, lack of jump, and loss of defensive ability and scoring efficiency. It makes the 2014 CBD playoff wade and Pierce so much less than last year's, IMHO.

I also don't think IP had a mid level college program coach coaching his team, he had HOF coach Pat Riley.

All that said, the Champ squad is only slightly inferior to IP's.

IP's squad took The Best CB Draft Team Ever Assembled (Voting Era Only) to 6 or 7 games.

... The Fake Mavs would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that IP's team would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that, because Champ's team is only slightly worse than IP's team, it's likely that Champ's team would stomp all over this Indiana team.

Holiday (All-star)
Wade
Pierce
Young
Bosh (All-Star)

With Parsons/Butler/Jack/Splitter/Vucevic on the bench? Come on!

You belong on a pencil somewhere with awesome hair, sir.

[nickagneta]

So, is Champ's team so far off from IP's Finals squad last year, that a lot of misguided folks thought was invincible?

C: Nene > Haywood
PF: Boozer and Bosh are comparable talents.  Boozer is a bit more sturdy in the post; Bosh has a bit more length.
SF: Pierce = Pierce (roughly)
SG: Wade = Wade (roughly)
PG: Holiday > Jameer, by a comfortable margin

IP had a better bench, certainly.  However, I see the two starting lineups as very similar, with IP's team being only slightly better.

It's interesting how one team is a Finals loser, and the other is seen by many as an afterthought.  Is it simply due to lack of marketing?

Except that was before everyone saw Pierce and Wade slowed considerably in this year's playoffs, nagging injuries and age seeming starting to take its toll. Projecting another year and long regular season ahead, I think it fair to expect them to possibly take another step back.

So I don't think Wade = Wade or Pierce = Pierce even roughly because the first Wade and Pierce were being evaluated on the season and 2012 playoffs and people didn't evaluate them correctly because in real life they were much less than that. Now the second Wade and Pierce are being evaluated and you have to now, because of past degeneration of game, extrapolate another loss of step, lack of jump, and loss of defensive ability and scoring efficiency. It makes the 2014 CBD playoff wade and Pierce so much less than last year's, IMHO.

I also don't think IP had a mid level college program coach coaching his team, he had HOF coach Pat Riley.

All that said, the Champ squad is only slightly inferior to IP's.

IP's squad took The Best CB Draft Team Ever Assembled (Voting Era Only) to 6 or 7 games.

... The Fake Mavs would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that IP's team would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that, because Champ's team is only slightly worse than IP's team, it's likely that Champ's team would stomp all over this Indiana team.

Holiday (All-star)
Wade
Pierce
Young
Bosh (All-Star)

With Parsons/Butler/Jack/Splitter/Vucevic on the bench? Come on!

You belong on a pencil somewhere with awesome hair, sir.

Exactly IP. Exactly right.

I actually think last year's two Finals squads would have blanked every team in this year's playoffs.

[Roy H.]

So, is Champ's team so far off from IP's Finals squad last year, that a lot of misguided folks thought was invincible?

C: Nene > Haywood
PF: Boozer and Bosh are comparable talents.  Boozer is a bit more sturdy in the post; Bosh has a bit more length.
SF: Pierce = Pierce (roughly)
SG: Wade = Wade (roughly)
PG: Holiday > Jameer, by a comfortable margin

IP had a better bench, certainly.  However, I see the two starting lineups as very similar, with IP's team being only slightly better.

It's interesting how one team is a Finals loser, and the other is seen by many as an afterthought.  Is it simply due to lack of marketing?

Except that was before everyone saw Pierce and Wade slowed considerably in this year's playoffs, nagging injuries and age seeming starting to take its toll. Projecting another year and long regular season ahead, I think it fair to expect them to possibly take another step back.

So I don't think Wade = Wade or Pierce = Pierce even roughly because the first Wade and Pierce were being evaluated on the season and 2012 playoffs and people didn't evaluate them correctly because in real life they were much less than that. Now the second Wade and Pierce are being evaluated and you have to now, because of past degeneration of game, extrapolate another loss of step, lack of jump, and loss of defensive ability and scoring efficiency. It makes the 2014 CBD playoff wade and Pierce so much less than last year's, IMHO.

I also don't think IP had a mid level college program coach coaching his team, he had HOF coach Pat Riley.

All that said, the Champ squad is only slightly inferior to IP's.

IP's squad took The Best CB Draft Team Ever Assembled (Voting Era Only) to 6 or 7 games.

... The Fake Mavs would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that IP's team would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that, because Champ's team is only slightly worse than IP's team, it's likely that Champ's team would stomp all over this Indiana team.

Holiday (All-star)
Wade
Pierce
Young
Bosh (All-Star)

With Parsons/Butler/Jack/Splitter/Vucevic on the bench? Come on!

You belong on a pencil somewhere with awesome hair, sir.

As the GM of the team that beat yours in the Finals, I can safely say that Atlanta is only slightly worse than your team was. 

And all three teams are better than the Pacers.

nick is right about this, though:

I actually think last year's two Finals squads would have blanked every team in this year's playoffs.

Ah, the good old days.

[Rondo2287]

So, is Champ's team so far off from IP's Finals squad last year, that a lot of misguided folks thought was invincible?

C: Nene > Haywood
PF: Boozer and Bosh are comparable talents.  Boozer is a bit more sturdy in the post; Bosh has a bit more length.
SF: Pierce = Pierce (roughly)
SG: Wade = Wade (roughly)
PG: Holiday > Jameer, by a comfortable margin

IP had a better bench, certainly.  However, I see the two starting lineups as very similar, with IP's team being only slightly better.

It's interesting how one team is a Finals loser, and the other is seen by many as an afterthought.  Is it simply due to lack of marketing?

Except that was before everyone saw Pierce and Wade slowed considerably in this year's playoffs, nagging injuries and age seeming starting to take its toll. Projecting another year and long regular season ahead, I think it fair to expect them to possibly take another step back.

So I don't think Wade = Wade or Pierce = Pierce even roughly because the first Wade and Pierce were being evaluated on the season and 2012 playoffs and people didn't evaluate them correctly because in real life they were much less than that. Now the second Wade and Pierce are being evaluated and you have to now, because of past degeneration of game, extrapolate another loss of step, lack of jump, and loss of defensive ability and scoring efficiency. It makes the 2014 CBD playoff wade and Pierce so much less than last year's, IMHO.

I also don't think IP had a mid level college program coach coaching his team, he had HOF coach Pat Riley.

All that said, the Champ squad is only slightly inferior to IP's.

IP's squad took The Best CB Draft Team Ever Assembled (Voting Era Only) to 6 or 7 games.

... The Fake Mavs would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that IP's team would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that, because Champ's team is only slightly worse than IP's team, it's likely that Champ's team would stomp all over this Indiana team.

Holiday (All-star)
Wade
Pierce
Young
Bosh (All-Star)

With Parsons/Butler/Jack/Splitter/Vucevic on the bench? Come on!

You belong on a pencil somewhere with awesome hair, sir.

As the GM of the team that beat yours in the Finals, I can safely say that Atlanta is only slightly worse than your team was. 

And all three teams are better than the Pacers.

I'll take incorrect statements for $1000 alex.

[Roy H.]

I'll take incorrect statements for $1000 alex.

In all seriousness, though, how does your team defend Atlanta?  You've admitted previously that your team sacrificed defense at the expense of offense.

What "great offense, poor defense" NBA team has won a title?

[Roy H.]

Kevin Durant - average defender
Deron Williams - has the potential to be above-average, but played ZERO defense in NJ
Luis Scola - poor defender
Robin Lopez - mediocre to poor defender
Ray Allen - poor defender
Elton Brand - good to very good defender
Rodney Stuckey - poor defender
Marvin Williams - at this stage, poor defender
Jeff Taylor - despite his reputation, a very poor defender
Andrew Nicholson - poor defender
Shaun Livingston - at this stage, a poor defender, especially against PGs
Markieff Morris - poor defender
Michael Beasley - fails at life

Who brings the playoff grit?  Who makes the tough stops?  Champkind can't defend himself, but that shouldn't matter, because your team couldn't defend Fab Melo and four chairs

[indeedproceed]

So, is Champ's team so far off from IP's Finals squad last year, that a lot of misguided folks thought was invincible?

C: Nene > Haywood
PF: Boozer and Bosh are comparable talents.  Boozer is a bit more sturdy in the post; Bosh has a bit more length.
SF: Pierce = Pierce (roughly)
SG: Wade = Wade (roughly)
PG: Holiday > Jameer, by a comfortable margin

IP had a better bench, certainly.  However, I see the two starting lineups as very similar, with IP's team being only slightly better.

It's interesting how one team is a Finals loser, and the other is seen by many as an afterthought.  Is it simply due to lack of marketing?

Except that was before everyone saw Pierce and Wade slowed considerably in this year's playoffs, nagging injuries and age seeming starting to take its toll. Projecting another year and long regular season ahead, I think it fair to expect them to possibly take another step back.

So I don't think Wade = Wade or Pierce = Pierce even roughly because the first Wade and Pierce were being evaluated on the season and 2012 playoffs and people didn't evaluate them correctly because in real life they were much less than that. Now the second Wade and Pierce are being evaluated and you have to now, because of past degeneration of game, extrapolate another loss of step, lack of jump, and loss of defensive ability and scoring efficiency. It makes the 2014 CBD playoff wade and Pierce so much less than last year's, IMHO.

I also don't think IP had a mid level college program coach coaching his team, he had HOF coach Pat Riley.

All that said, the Champ squad is only slightly inferior to IP's.

IP's squad took The Best CB Draft Team Ever Assembled (Voting Era Only) to 6 or 7 games.

... The Fake Mavs would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that IP's team would have stomped all over this Indiana team.

... which means that, because Champ's team is only slightly worse than IP's team, it's likely that Champ's team would stomp all over this Indiana team.

Holiday (All-star)
Wade
Pierce
Young
Bosh (All-Star)

With Parsons/Butler/Jack/Splitter/Vucevic on the bench? Come on!

You belong on a pencil somewhere with awesome hair, sir.

As the GM of the team that beat yours in the Finals, I can safely say that Atlanta is only slightly worse than your team was. 

Haha. Alright. You win the 'make IPs head explode in nerd-rage' award for today.

[Roy H.]

Haha. Alright. You win the 'make IPs head explode in nerd-rage' award for today.

Success!  Since I'm not participating as a GM this year, this is as good as a championship trophy.

But, back to Indiana's lack of defense...  When is the last time a team with across the board bad defenders won a championship?

[Rondo2287]

I'll take incorrect statements for $1000 alex.

In all seriousness, though, how does your team defend Atlanta?  You've admitted previously that your team sacrificed defense at the expense of offense.

What "great offense, poor defense" NBA team has won a title?

Well I think I admitted that I didnt target defense specifically because I thought they were being over valued.  For Instance, I could have gotten a better defensive player than scola at the pick where I took him, but I don't think I could have taken a better overall player.

I also don't think my team is poor defensively.  I would put us probably in the mid teens out of 25 teams.  I'd say below average but not poor.  Especially when you consider the strong team defense my coach will be instituting. 

[McHales Pits]

To be honest, I picked Miami to beat Atlanta - but it was so close. In fact, I think I like them in this series. Indiana's depth after the two stars is weak and Atlanta has such a nice roster with stars and productive role players. If Atlanta can explain to me how they intend on stopping Durant, I think I'll pick them to advance.