2013 CB Draft: Atlantic Division Press Conferences

[Roy H.]

But that's not true. IP already pointed out opponent PER as a stat Hayward as an upper hand in, and opponent PER is only as accurate as other stats you're using.

And since you stress that "you need to assess other factors", why do you keep dodging the team factor? Kevin Martin was clearly on a superior defensive team last year, and his defensive numbers were significantly better than his career numbers. Again, what I want to know is if you think Ray Allen is a better defender than Gordon Hayward? It's the exact same situation.

I have now mentioned this three times: Opponents PER isn't purely a defensive metric, just like PER isn't a purely offensive stat.

[nickagneta]

I personally think they are both poor defenders with Martin being ever so slightly better than Hayward.

[KGs Knee]

If I was ranking defensive metrics as to there relevance, I would start with PPP against, followed by defensive wins shares.  DRtg and opponent PER are ok, but not nearly as good of an indicator, in my opinion.

[KGs Knee]

I personally think they are both poor defenders with Martin being ever so slightly better than Hayward.

Most accurate statement so far.

[indeedproceed]

I personally think they are both poor defenders with Martin being ever so slightly better than Hayward.

Most accurate statement so far.

Nope.

[rondoallaturca]

But that's not true. IP already pointed out opponent PER as a stat Hayward as an upper hand in, and opponent PER is only as accurate as other stats you're using.

And since you stress that "you need to assess other factors", why do you keep dodging the team factor? Kevin Martin was clearly on a superior defensive team last year, and his defensive numbers were significantly better than his career numbers. Again, what I want to know is if you think Ray Allen is a better defender than Gordon Hayward? It's the exact same situation.

I have now mentioned this three times: Opponents PER isn't purely a defensive metric, just like PER isn't a purely offensive stat.

I will now ask this a third time: Do you think Ray Allen is a better defender than Gordon Hayward?

[Roy H.]

But that's not true. IP already pointed out opponent PER as a stat Hayward as an upper hand in, and opponent PER is only as accurate as other stats you're using.

And since you stress that "you need to assess other factors", why do you keep dodging the team factor? Kevin Martin was clearly on a superior defensive team last year, and his defensive numbers were significantly better than his career numbers. Again, what I want to know is if you think Ray Allen is a better defender than Gordon Hayward? It's the exact same situation.

I have now mentioned this three times: Opponents PER isn't purely a defensive metric, just like PER isn't a purely offensive stat.

I will now ask this a third time: Do you think Ray Allen is a better defender than Gordon Hayward?

It's an irrelevant question for the Atlantic press conference, but what the heck, I'll answer it.  The metrics are slightly mixed.  Ray has a better DRtg and more defensive win shares, but gives up slightly more points per possession than Hayward.  Ray holds his man to a lower eFG% than Hayward.

So, the numbers suggest that Ray is at least as good as, and perhaps better than, Hayward at defense.  Neither player is a particularly good defender at this stage.  However, both have their moments where they can play very good defense.

[indeedproceed]

Question for the rest of the teams in the conference: If you have a dead horse, and you know its dead, but you continue to beat it afterwards,does that in fact make it more dead?

Well, let's go to the synergy numbers.

[Fafnir]

When Ray was on the court the Heat gave up 6 more points per 100 possessions.

It was 5 points per 100 poss. in his last year with the C's. That's with a 101 defensive rating and better synergy defensive stats than LeBron/Durant IIRC as well. Playing with KG/Rondo/Pierce does wonder for all these stats.

Synergy/DRTG aren't good at capturing defensive acumen of individual players. The way they're used to define how capable a defender is for these drafts is more misleading than helpful.

Edit: Avery Bradley actually had a worse defensive rating than Ray in 2011-2012 too.

[Roy H.]

Question for the rest of the teams in the conference: If you have a dead horse, and you know its dead, but you continue to beat it afterwards,does that in fact make it more dead?

Well, let's go to the synergy numbers.

Well, at least we've established that Hayward is in the same class of defender as defensive stalwarts such as Ray Allen and Kevin Martin.

[indeedproceed]

So annoyed; just went and found a bunch if sources lauding Hayward's defense. Then wife called and asked me to look something up and I absentmindedly just clicked away from it.

Gordon Hayward is a good defender, The conclusions Roy is drawing from the statistics are in this case, wrong.

[KGs Knee]

So annoyed; just went and found a bunch if sources lauding Hayward's defense. Then wife called and asked me to look something up and I absentmindedly just clicked away from it.

Gordon Hayward is a good defender, The conclusions Roy is drawing from the statistics are in this case, wrong.

So, what you're saying is; conclusions drawn from stats are only accurate when they benefit you. 

[rondoallaturca]

It's an irrelevant question for the Atlantic press conference, but what the heck, I'll answer it.  The metrics are slightly mixed.  Ray has a better DRtg and more defensive win shares, but gives up slightly more points per possession than Hayward.  Ray holds his man to a lower eFG% than Hayward.

So, the numbers suggest that Ray is at least as good as, and perhaps better than, Hayward at defense.  Neither player is a particularly good defender at this stage.  However, both have their moments where they can play very good defense.

Well I think it's certainly relevant considering it reveals your thought process behind Martin vs Hayward, which is that you really do live and die by the numbers. When it comes to defense, personally I believe statistics only tell so much because there's a lot more context behind it. I don't blame you for sticking by the numbers though, but we'll agree to disagree.

Also, did Philly ever put up their presser? This team is especially difficult to rank. Despite its youth, there's actually potential for this team to perhaps sneak into the back end of the playoffs IMO

[indeedproceed]

So annoyed; just went and found a bunch if sources lauding Hayward's defense. Then wife called and asked me to look something up and I absentmindedly just clicked away from it.

Gordon Hayward is a good defender, The conclusions Roy is drawing from the statistics are in this case, wrong.

So, what you're saying is; conclusions drawn from stats are only accurate when they benefit you. 

No, Im saying this conclusion drawn from stats is wrong. Some conclusions are right, even when they disagree with what I want. But not this one.

[pearljammer10]

I personally think they are both poor defenders with Martin being ever so slightly better than Hayward.

Most accurate statement so far.

Agree by a long shot.