All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[celticsclay]

Which team is actually  interested in Fultz???

Phoenix

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/markelle-fultz-trade-rumors-suns-interested-in-former-no-1-pick-76ers-need-him-to-be-truthful-about-shooting-issues/

That is a hail mairy, not interest. Nobody is trading for him unless PHI makes it very sweet which in this case becomes the biggest asset of the trade.

Okafor at least at his second year played 22mpg getting 12p. Fultz today for whatever reason is not a basketball player

Okafor's offensive stats were padded by being on a bad team.  Okafor was also one of the worst defensive players in the league which is a horrible attribute for a center.  He was also a bad rebounder and as I've already said his offense would have been good 20 years ago not in modern basketball.

An argument can be made that in a time where spacing and shooting is at a premium, having a shooting disaster at guard like Fultz is an even worse fit for the modern game. If he was as talented as another non-shooter like Simmons, which he’s not, then you just surround him with shooters and go that route. Since he’s not, it just compounds the program. At this point, it’s much more likely that in 5 years he’s completely out of the league than it him living up to his draft selection.

Not a very good argument.  Fultz hasn't even played 40 games yet.  There are plenty of poor shooting guards in the league.  As I posted, his numbers are similar to Rozier and overall Fultz is a much better talent.  If Fultz can get over this shoulder injury/mental block, he can have a NBA career even with relatively poor shooting albeit not to the level that you'd want a #1 pick to perform. 

Okafor has shown with 3 teams and 3+ seasons that he's not an NBA level player.  Horrible defender, poor shooter with no range, poor rebounder, only able to play center and he hasn't made any improvements to his game.  His best net rating has been a horrid -13.

But if he doesn't get over them, he won't see more than a vet min contract after he is off him rookie contract.

Eddie is right. It's one thing to have a big who doesn't shoot well but can rebound, set picks, protect the rim or score inside and it's completely another to have a guard that can't shoot and isn't dominant at another guard skill like defense or running an offense or passing. If Smart or Roberson weren't dominating defensive players, they probably are on vet min contracts at the end of some team's bench or playing overseas. Rubio is lucky he could run an offense and pass because otherwise, he would never have made it that long after coming over from Europe.

Fultz gotta show he can shoot and score or show he is an amazing defender or a guy who can pass and initiate the offense, or else, he is gone.

That's not what Eddie said.  Eddie said Fultz was a worse fit for the modern game than Okafor. 
That's nuts.  Okafor can't shoot, can't defend, can't rebound.

On an individual basis, neither is a fit for the modern game if Fultz can't shoot. Now ask me if I would rather have a big that has a good post game but can't defend, rebound or shoot from outside or a guard that can' t hit a shot other than a layup, has a completely broken shooting form, has never shown to be adept at defense, isn't a great creator of offense other than for himself and is just a very good rebounder for his size, and I will take that big every time. So I guess I still agree with Eddie.

Fultz went #1 because of his all around game not just his shooting.  Even his defense while weak was said to have potential.  He's not Rondo but he can certainly create for others.  He's actually pretty good in the pick and roll.  He's been inconsistent on defense but he has shown the potential and effort at times.  His defensive rating is 102.2 which isn't bad.  If Fultz gets his injury/mental block resolved, he can be a below average shooter and have an NBA career.  Now it would have to be on a different team since he's got to develop into a better shooter to coexist with Simmons.   

Okafor is just dreadful.  His offensive rating is 96.2 and his defensive rating is 112.7.  You can work around Fultz's deficiencies to some extent.  There is no way to work around Okafor.

Yeah, I think you are looking at Fultz with your usual red, white and blue tinted glasses when it comes to Fultz, so I will just respectfully agree to disagree with your assessment on Fultz and leave it at that.

Nick I'm right there with you. I don't understand his take on fultz either. I do think the 76ers are tired of him themselves and he will probably be off the team soon

[tazzmaniac]

Which team is actually  interested in Fultz???

Phoenix

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/markelle-fultz-trade-rumors-suns-interested-in-former-no-1-pick-76ers-need-him-to-be-truthful-about-shooting-issues/

That is a hail mairy, not interest. Nobody is trading for him unless PHI makes it very sweet which in this case becomes the biggest asset of the trade.

Okafor at least at his second year played 22mpg getting 12p. Fultz today for whatever reason is not a basketball player

Okafor's offensive stats were padded by being on a bad team.  Okafor was also one of the worst defensive players in the league which is a horrible attribute for a center.  He was also a bad rebounder and as I've already said his offense would have been good 20 years ago not in modern basketball.

An argument can be made that in a time where spacing and shooting is at a premium, having a shooting disaster at guard like Fultz is an even worse fit for the modern game. If he was as talented as another non-shooter like Simmons, which he’s not, then you just surround him with shooters and go that route. Since he’s not, it just compounds the program. At this point, it’s much more likely that in 5 years he’s completely out of the league than it him living up to his draft selection.

Not a very good argument.  Fultz hasn't even played 40 games yet.  There are plenty of poor shooting guards in the league.  As I posted, his numbers are similar to Rozier and overall Fultz is a much better talent.  If Fultz can get over this shoulder injury/mental block, he can have a NBA career even with relatively poor shooting albeit not to the level that you'd want a #1 pick to perform. 

Okafor has shown with 3 teams and 3+ seasons that he's not an NBA level player.  Horrible defender, poor shooter with no range, poor rebounder, only able to play center and he hasn't made any improvements to his game.  His best net rating has been a horrid -13.

But if he doesn't get over them, he won't see more than a vet min contract after he is off him rookie contract.

Eddie is right. It's one thing to have a big who doesn't shoot well but can rebound, set picks, protect the rim or score inside and it's completely another to have a guard that can't shoot and isn't dominant at another guard skill like defense or running an offense or passing. If Smart or Roberson weren't dominating defensive players, they probably are on vet min contracts at the end of some team's bench or playing overseas. Rubio is lucky he could run an offense and pass because otherwise, he would never have made it that long after coming over from Europe.

Fultz gotta show he can shoot and score or show he is an amazing defender or a guy who can pass and initiate the offense, or else, he is gone.

That's not what Eddie said.  Eddie said Fultz was a worse fit for the modern game than Okafor. 
That's nuts.  Okafor can't shoot, can't defend, can't rebound.

On an individual basis, neither is a fit for the modern game if Fultz can't shoot. Now ask me if I would rather have a big that has a good post game but can't defend, rebound or shoot from outside or a guard that can' t hit a shot other than a layup, has a completely broken shooting form, has never shown to be adept at defense, isn't a great creator of offense other than for himself and is just a very good rebounder for his size, and I will take that big every time. So I guess I still agree with Eddie.

Fultz went #1 because of his all around game not just his shooting.  Even his defense while weak was said to have potential.  He's not Rondo but he can certainly create for others.  He's actually pretty good in the pick and roll.  He's been inconsistent on defense but he has shown the potential and effort at times.  His defensive rating is 102.2 which isn't bad.  If Fultz gets his injury/mental block resolved, he can be a below average shooter and have an NBA career.  Now it would have to be on a different team since he's got to develop into a better shooter to coexist with Simmons.   

Okafor is just dreadful.  His offensive rating is 96.2 and his defensive rating is 112.7.  You can work around Fultz's deficiencies to some extent.  There is no way to work around Okafor.

It's hilarious how you seem to chalk up his mental issues as if he was dealing with a gimpy ankle or something minor. Is there any example throughout professional sports of a player dealing with yips and overcoming them to become the player they were? And what is that for Fultz anyways? He played in a non-winning and non-pressure environment in college where he could've just been a good college player getting stats on a bad team. Sure he shot decently in from the field, but his free throw shooting of 64.9 is horrendous for a guard and scouts say that free throw shooting is a good indicator of what type of shooter that player will be. Fultz also had a few games in college where his FT shooting were giving clues as to his lack of mental toughness. Games where he shot 4 for 9 and 0 for 4 really stick out. That 0 for 4 was part of a 4 game span where he shot 6 for 17, he also shot 19 for 36 to finish his college career from the FT line.

That's my shorthand for injury and/or mental block.  I wouldn't be surprised if it is both.  I said "if he got it resolved".  I didn't make any claim that it would be easy.  In fact I was thinking to myself when I made that post that it would be better if he had an ACL tear.  When you start seeing multiple specialists, that probably means that there is not a consensus diagnosis and/or treatment plan. 

[tazzmaniac]

Which team is actually  interested in Fultz???

Phoenix

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/markelle-fultz-trade-rumors-suns-interested-in-former-no-1-pick-76ers-need-him-to-be-truthful-about-shooting-issues/

That is a hail mairy, not interest. Nobody is trading for him unless PHI makes it very sweet which in this case becomes the biggest asset of the trade.

Okafor at least at his second year played 22mpg getting 12p. Fultz today for whatever reason is not a basketball player

Okafor's offensive stats were padded by being on a bad team.  Okafor was also one of the worst defensive players in the league which is a horrible attribute for a center.  He was also a bad rebounder and as I've already said his offense would have been good 20 years ago not in modern basketball.

An argument can be made that in a time where spacing and shooting is at a premium, having a shooting disaster at guard like Fultz is an even worse fit for the modern game. If he was as talented as another non-shooter like Simmons, which he’s not, then you just surround him with shooters and go that route. Since he’s not, it just compounds the program. At this point, it’s much more likely that in 5 years he’s completely out of the league than it him living up to his draft selection.

Not a very good argument.  Fultz hasn't even played 40 games yet.  There are plenty of poor shooting guards in the league.  As I posted, his numbers are similar to Rozier and overall Fultz is a much better talent.  If Fultz can get over this shoulder injury/mental block, he can have a NBA career even with relatively poor shooting albeit not to the level that you'd want a #1 pick to perform. 

Okafor has shown with 3 teams and 3+ seasons that he's not an NBA level player.  Horrible defender, poor shooter with no range, poor rebounder, only able to play center and he hasn't made any improvements to his game.  His best net rating has been a horrid -13.

But if he doesn't get over them, he won't see more than a vet min contract after he is off him rookie contract.

Eddie is right. It's one thing to have a big who doesn't shoot well but can rebound, set picks, protect the rim or score inside and it's completely another to have a guard that can't shoot and isn't dominant at another guard skill like defense or running an offense or passing. If Smart or Roberson weren't dominating defensive players, they probably are on vet min contracts at the end of some team's bench or playing overseas. Rubio is lucky he could run an offense and pass because otherwise, he would never have made it that long after coming over from Europe.

Fultz gotta show he can shoot and score or show he is an amazing defender or a guy who can pass and initiate the offense, or else, he is gone.

That's not what Eddie said.  Eddie said Fultz was a worse fit for the modern game than Okafor. 
That's nuts.  Okafor can't shoot, can't defend, can't rebound.

On an individual basis, neither is a fit for the modern game if Fultz can't shoot. Now ask me if I would rather have a big that has a good post game but can't defend, rebound or shoot from outside or a guard that can' t hit a shot other than a layup, has a completely broken shooting form, has never shown to be adept at defense, isn't a great creator of offense other than for himself and is just a very good rebounder for his size, and I will take that big every time. So I guess I still agree with Eddie.

Fultz went #1 because of his all around game not just his shooting.  Even his defense while weak was said to have potential.  He's not Rondo but he can certainly create for others.  He's actually pretty good in the pick and roll.  He's been inconsistent on defense but he has shown the potential and effort at times.  His defensive rating is 102.2 which isn't bad.  If Fultz gets his injury/mental block resolved, he can be a below average shooter and have an NBA career.  Now it would have to be on a different team since he's got to develop into a better shooter to coexist with Simmons.   

Okafor is just dreadful.  His offensive rating is 96.2 and his defensive rating is 112.7.  You can work around Fultz's deficiencies to some extent.  There is no way to work around Okafor.

Yeah, I think you are looking at Fultz with your usual red, white and blue tinted glasses when it comes to Fultz, so I will just respectfully agree to disagree with your assessment on Fultz and leave it at that.

You guys are amazing.  Unlike me, most of this blog were head over heals about Fultz when we had the #1 pick.  I never thought he was a franchise player or the clear cut #1.  Fox was my guy.  I just don't think you write off young players with his potential so quickly.  Different situation and different level of talent but people on here were writing off Embiid when he had his 2nd foot surgery.  Big mistake. 

[Eddie20]

Which team is actually  interested in Fultz???

Phoenix

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/markelle-fultz-trade-rumors-suns-interested-in-former-no-1-pick-76ers-need-him-to-be-truthful-about-shooting-issues/

That is a hail mairy, not interest. Nobody is trading for him unless PHI makes it very sweet which in this case becomes the biggest asset of the trade.

Okafor at least at his second year played 22mpg getting 12p. Fultz today for whatever reason is not a basketball player

Okafor's offensive stats were padded by being on a bad team.  Okafor was also one of the worst defensive players in the league which is a horrible attribute for a center.  He was also a bad rebounder and as I've already said his offense would have been good 20 years ago not in modern basketball.

An argument can be made that in a time where spacing and shooting is at a premium, having a shooting disaster at guard like Fultz is an even worse fit for the modern game. If he was as talented as another non-shooter like Simmons, which he’s not, then you just surround him with shooters and go that route. Since he’s not, it just compounds the program. At this point, it’s much more likely that in 5 years he’s completely out of the league than it him living up to his draft selection.

Not a very good argument.  Fultz hasn't even played 40 games yet.  There are plenty of poor shooting guards in the league.  As I posted, his numbers are similar to Rozier and overall Fultz is a much better talent.  If Fultz can get over this shoulder injury/mental block, he can have a NBA career even with relatively poor shooting albeit not to the level that you'd want a #1 pick to perform. 

Okafor has shown with 3 teams and 3+ seasons that he's not an NBA level player.  Horrible defender, poor shooter with no range, poor rebounder, only able to play center and he hasn't made any improvements to his game.  His best net rating has been a horrid -13.

But if he doesn't get over them, he won't see more than a vet min contract after he is off him rookie contract.

Eddie is right. It's one thing to have a big who doesn't shoot well but can rebound, set picks, protect the rim or score inside and it's completely another to have a guard that can't shoot and isn't dominant at another guard skill like defense or running an offense or passing. If Smart or Roberson weren't dominating defensive players, they probably are on vet min contracts at the end of some team's bench or playing overseas. Rubio is lucky he could run an offense and pass because otherwise, he would never have made it that long after coming over from Europe.

Fultz gotta show he can shoot and score or show he is an amazing defender or a guy who can pass and initiate the offense, or else, he is gone.

That's not what Eddie said.  Eddie said Fultz was a worse fit for the modern game than Okafor. 
That's nuts.  Okafor can't shoot, can't defend, can't rebound.

On an individual basis, neither is a fit for the modern game if Fultz can't shoot. Now ask me if I would rather have a big that has a good post game but can't defend, rebound or shoot from outside or a guard that can' t hit a shot other than a layup, has a completely broken shooting form, has never shown to be adept at defense, isn't a great creator of offense other than for himself and is just a very good rebounder for his size, and I will take that big every time. So I guess I still agree with Eddie.

Fultz went #1 because of his all around game not just his shooting.  Even his defense while weak was said to have potential.  He's not Rondo but he can certainly create for others.  He's actually pretty good in the pick and roll.  He's been inconsistent on defense but he has shown the potential and effort at times.  His defensive rating is 102.2 which isn't bad.  If Fultz gets his injury/mental block resolved, he can be a below average shooter and have an NBA career.  Now it would have to be on a different team since he's got to develop into a better shooter to coexist with Simmons.   

Okafor is just dreadful.  His offensive rating is 96.2 and his defensive rating is 112.7.  You can work around Fultz's deficiencies to some extent.  There is no way to work around Okafor.

Yeah, I think you are looking at Fultz with your usual red, white and blue tinted glasses when it comes to Fultz, so I will just respectfully agree to disagree with your assessment on Fultz and leave it at that.

You guys are amazing.  Unlike me, most of this blog were head over heals about Fultz when we had the #1 pick.  I never thought he was a franchise player or the clear cut #1.  Fox was my guy. 

Really? Are you sure about that?

1.   76ers    -   Fultz
2.   Lakers   -   Ball
3.   Celtics   -   Tatum
4.   Suns     -   Jackson
5.   Kings    -   Fox
6.   Magic    -   Isaac
7.   Wolves  -   Z. Collins
8.   Knicks   -   Smith Jr. 
9.   Mavs     -   Ntilikina
10. Kings    -    Monk

I think they probably would do the trade but without the extra Sixers pick.  Fultz appears to be a great fit with Simmons and Embiid.

Based on current DraftExpress mock.

Fultz
Swanigan
Iwundu
draft and stash

I'd put Fox in tier 2 and Isaac in tier 3.   

[Phantom255x]

I see people debating Okafor vs. Fultz on here a ton lately.

Bottom line is, they both could end up being BUSTS. Okafor already is, and Fultz is trending that way. PHI messed up with their 2017 draft pick, period. The Butler trade alleviates that a bit and of course if they can trade Fultz in a pure salary dump they could land another star FA next summer.

For this season though, I still think the lack of shooting is going to hurt them against the elite teams they play. Their next two games are against a good MEM team and Toronto (on the road). I'm curious to see how they do in those games.

[tazzmaniac]

Which team is actually  interested in Fultz???

Phoenix

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/markelle-fultz-trade-rumors-suns-interested-in-former-no-1-pick-76ers-need-him-to-be-truthful-about-shooting-issues/

That is a hail mairy, not interest. Nobody is trading for him unless PHI makes it very sweet which in this case becomes the biggest asset of the trade.

Okafor at least at his second year played 22mpg getting 12p. Fultz today for whatever reason is not a basketball player

Okafor's offensive stats were padded by being on a bad team.  Okafor was also one of the worst defensive players in the league which is a horrible attribute for a center.  He was also a bad rebounder and as I've already said his offense would have been good 20 years ago not in modern basketball.

An argument can be made that in a time where spacing and shooting is at a premium, having a shooting disaster at guard like Fultz is an even worse fit for the modern game. If he was as talented as another non-shooter like Simmons, which he’s not, then you just surround him with shooters and go that route. Since he’s not, it just compounds the program. At this point, it’s much more likely that in 5 years he’s completely out of the league than it him living up to his draft selection.

Not a very good argument.  Fultz hasn't even played 40 games yet.  There are plenty of poor shooting guards in the league.  As I posted, his numbers are similar to Rozier and overall Fultz is a much better talent.  If Fultz can get over this shoulder injury/mental block, he can have a NBA career even with relatively poor shooting albeit not to the level that you'd want a #1 pick to perform. 

Okafor has shown with 3 teams and 3+ seasons that he's not an NBA level player.  Horrible defender, poor shooter with no range, poor rebounder, only able to play center and he hasn't made any improvements to his game.  His best net rating has been a horrid -13.

But if he doesn't get over them, he won't see more than a vet min contract after he is off him rookie contract.

Eddie is right. It's one thing to have a big who doesn't shoot well but can rebound, set picks, protect the rim or score inside and it's completely another to have a guard that can't shoot and isn't dominant at another guard skill like defense or running an offense or passing. If Smart or Roberson weren't dominating defensive players, they probably are on vet min contracts at the end of some team's bench or playing overseas. Rubio is lucky he could run an offense and pass because otherwise, he would never have made it that long after coming over from Europe.

Fultz gotta show he can shoot and score or show he is an amazing defender or a guy who can pass and initiate the offense, or else, he is gone.

That's not what Eddie said.  Eddie said Fultz was a worse fit for the modern game than Okafor. 
That's nuts.  Okafor can't shoot, can't defend, can't rebound.

On an individual basis, neither is a fit for the modern game if Fultz can't shoot. Now ask me if I would rather have a big that has a good post game but can't defend, rebound or shoot from outside or a guard that can' t hit a shot other than a layup, has a completely broken shooting form, has never shown to be adept at defense, isn't a great creator of offense other than for himself and is just a very good rebounder for his size, and I will take that big every time. So I guess I still agree with Eddie.

Fultz went #1 because of his all around game not just his shooting.  Even his defense while weak was said to have potential.  He's not Rondo but he can certainly create for others.  He's actually pretty good in the pick and roll.  He's been inconsistent on defense but he has shown the potential and effort at times.  His defensive rating is 102.2 which isn't bad.  If Fultz gets his injury/mental block resolved, he can be a below average shooter and have an NBA career.  Now it would have to be on a different team since he's got to develop into a better shooter to coexist with Simmons.   

Okafor is just dreadful.  His offensive rating is 96.2 and his defensive rating is 112.7.  You can work around Fultz's deficiencies to some extent.  There is no way to work around Okafor.

Yeah, I think you are looking at Fultz with your usual red, white and blue tinted glasses when it comes to Fultz, so I will just respectfully agree to disagree with your assessment on Fultz and leave it at that.

You guys are amazing.  Unlike me, most of this blog were head over heals about Fultz when we had the #1 pick.  I never thought he was a franchise player or the clear cut #1.  Fox was my guy. 

Really? Are you sure about that?

1.   76ers    -   Fultz
2.   Lakers   -   Ball
3.   Celtics   -   Tatum
4.   Suns     -   Jackson
5.   Kings    -   Fox
6.   Magic    -   Isaac
7.   Wolves  -   Z. Collins
8.   Knicks   -   Smith Jr. 
9.   Mavs     -   Ntilikina
10. Kings    -    Monk

I think they probably would do the trade but without the extra Sixers pick.  Fultz appears to be a great fit with Simmons and Embiid.

Based on current DraftExpress mock.

Fultz
Swanigan
Iwundu
draft and stash

I'd put Fox in tier 2 and Isaac in tier 3.   

Since you know how to search and I don't please find all my posts where I said Fultz wasn't a franchise or transcendent player.  Also find all the posts where I said Fox was my favorite in that draft.

Posting those draft lists was very disingenuous.  Those were Mock drafts.  Everyone who posted in those threads had Fultz going to us when we had the #1 pick and then to Sixers when they acquired the #1 pick. 
 

[tazzmaniac]

I see people debating Okafor vs. Fultz on here a ton lately.

Bottom line is, they both could end up being BUSTS. Okafor already is, and Fultz is trending that way. PHI messed up with their 2017 draft pick, period. The Butler trade alleviates that a bit and of course if they can trade Fultz in a pure salary dump they could land another star FA next summer.

For this season though, I still think the lack of shooting is going to hurt them against the elite teams they play. Their next two games are against a good MEM team and Toronto (on the road). I'm curious to see how they do in those games.

They could use more shooting but it has to be players that can contribute in the playoffs.  Ilyasova and Bellineli did well in the regular season but not in the playoffs.  The Sixers do have their room exception to use.   They could also use a better backup center.  I expect that they'll be active in the buyout market if not the trade market. 

[Androslav]

With me not being a native English speaker, please tell what is more precise?
Fultz is a work in progress? Or
Fultz is a work in regress?

[Celtics4ever]

Fultz is a work in progress? Or

more often used.

I would use Fultz is a bust.

[hwangjini_1]

With me not being a native English speaker, please tell what is more precise?
Fultz is a work in progress? Or
Fultz is a work in regress?

Fultz is a piece of work. 

[Moranis]

With me not being a native English speaker, please tell what is more precise?
Fultz is a work in progress? Or
Fultz is a work in regress?

depends on what you are trying to say, as technically you could use either. 

[Emmette Bryant]

With me not being a native English speaker, please tell what is more precise?
Fultz is a work in progress? Or
Fultz is a work in regress?

Q: Are we not men?
A: We are Devo!

[Vermont Green]

With me not being a native English speaker, please tell what is more precise?
Fultz is a work in progress? Or
Fultz is a work in regress?

Love it and I think some are missing your sarcasm.  You may have invented a new phrase for our American English lexicon (work in regress).  It certainly seems to apply to Fultz.  I am going to steal this and start to use it (with your permission of course).

[apc]

All this talk about Fultz. How about how good the Sixers look with Butler?
8-2 in the last 10 games, (I admit they haven't played many top teams)

[fairweatherfan]

With me not being a native English speaker, please tell what is more precise?
Fultz is a work in progress? Or
Fultz is a work in regress?

Option 3: A work in egress