All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[saltlover]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

Sam Hinkie wasn't much of a GM, but he was a heck of a marketer.  Lots of teams have taken a similar approach in the past; before it was called the "process," it was known by the less catchy slogan, "really sucking for a really long time."

I'll take people who have no idea what they're talking about for 2000 Alec.

Name one bad Sam Hinkie trade. Seriously. Name one.

I'd say trading Evan Turner for the 60th pick in the next year's draft was a poor result from a sell-low situation he helped create.

[celticsclay]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

Sam Hinkie wasn't much of a GM, but he was a heck of a marketer.  Lots of teams have taken a similar approach in the past; before it was called the "process," it was known by the less catchy slogan, "really sucking for a really long time."

I'll take people who have no idea what they're talking about for 2000 Alec.

Name one bad Sam Hinkie trade. Seriously. Name one.

I'd say trading Evan Turner for the 60th pick in the next year's draft was a poor result from a sell-low situation he helped create.

Yea I had forgot about that trade. Lavoy allen is also decent cheap frontcourt depth (The Celtics could use him). You would have to think they could have gotten something a little better for those two.

[Moranis]

Yep that was a pretty bad trade Evan Turner and Lavoy Allen for Danny Granger and pick 60 in the 2015 draft.  Granger was immediately bought out.  Though Turner and Allen were both up coming free agents that weren't likely to stay in Philly, you still think they could have gotten more than that for them. 

[oldtype]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

Sam Hinkie wasn't much of a GM, but he was a heck of a marketer.  Lots of teams have taken a similar approach in the past; before it was called the "process," it was known by the less catchy slogan, "really sucking for a really long time."

I'll take people who have no idea what they're talking about for 2000 Alec.

Name one bad Sam Hinkie trade. Seriously. Name one.

Got me.

Electing not to take Isaiah Thomas as a throw-in in the MCW deal.

I'd add to this that the MCW deal itself was probably bad for him as a whole.  It was an amazing, brilliant trade in the abstract; but it also probably got him fired.

[Moranis]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

Sam Hinkie wasn't much of a GM, but he was a heck of a marketer.  Lots of teams have taken a similar approach in the past; before it was called the "process," it was known by the less catchy slogan, "really sucking for a really long time."

I'll take people who have no idea what they're talking about for 2000 Alec.

Name one bad Sam Hinkie trade. Seriously. Name one.

Got me.

Electing not to take Isaiah Thomas as a throw-in in the MCW deal.

I'd add to this that the MCW deal itself was probably bad for him as a whole.  It was an amazing, brilliant trade in the abstract; but it also probably got him fired.

that trade didn't get him fired at all, it was his failure to bring enough "for show" veterans in the offseason that got him fired.  He seemed to be so focused on the future that he forgot about what the present looked like and the appearance he was giving. 

[Ilikesports17]

You kinda saw the Hinkie firing coming. I feel it was pretty unfair to Hinkie but had to be expected. i hope it was enough to make other GMs think twice about extended tanking projects.

[oldtype]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

Sam Hinkie wasn't much of a GM, but he was a heck of a marketer.  Lots of teams have taken a similar approach in the past; before it was called the "process," it was known by the less catchy slogan, "really sucking for a really long time."

I'll take people who have no idea what they're talking about for 2000 Alec.

Name one bad Sam Hinkie trade. Seriously. Name one.

Got me.

Electing not to take Isaiah Thomas as a throw-in in the MCW deal.

I'd add to this that the MCW deal itself was probably bad for him as a whole.  It was an amazing, brilliant trade in the abstract; but it also probably got him fired.

that trade didn't get him fired at all, it was his failure to bring enough "for show" veterans in the offseason that got him fired.  He seemed to be so focused on the future that he forgot about what the present looked like and the appearance he was giving.

The firing was all about narrative and the narrative on Hinkie went south in a very significant way when he shipped out the reigning rookie of the year. 

[LarBrd33]

You kinda saw the Hinkie firing coming. I feel it was pretty unfair to Hinkie but had to be expected. i hope it was enough to make other GMs think twice about extended tanking projects.

Technically he quit.  He could have stayed on, but it was clear his role had been limited.  Pretty enlightening article about Hinkie came out recently:  http://www.si.com/nba/2016/11/30/sam-hinkie-after-the-process-philadelphia-76ers

I went from thinking he was just some dude who executed ownership's plan to tank... to thinking he's actually a pretty intelligent guy who will very likely have options to return to the NBA when his non-compete ends... though it doesn't sound like he's made up his mind on if he wants to return to the NBA or pursue something else.  He's definitely a peculiar guy, though.   Interesting read.   

[Ilikesports17]

You kinda saw the Hinkie firing coming. I feel it was pretty unfair to Hinkie but had to be expected. i hope it was enough to make other GMs think twice about extended tanking projects.

Technically he quit.  He could have stayed on, but it was clear his role had been limited.  Pretty enlightening article about Hinkie came out recently:  http://www.si.com/nba/2016/11/30/sam-hinkie-after-the-process-philadelphia-76ers

I went from thinking he was just some dude who executed ownership's plan to tank... to thinking he's actually a pretty intelligent guy who will very likely have options to return to the NBA when his non-compete ends... though it doesn't sound like he's made up his mind on if he wants to return to the NBA or pursue something else.  He's definitely a peculiar guy, though.   Interesting read.

yeah I think he is a very bright guy. The idea of sucking for a star isnt a new one but the way Hinkie went about it and they way he executed it was really impressive.

I think when Philly hired him there had to be the understanding that they could really be quite bad for a long time. I somewhat doubt that ownership said, "OK you can lead us through the dog days and get us some terrific assets then we will hand it over to someone else to lead us back to real contention". I think its quite unfair but thats how tanks often go. I wish Hinkie had been given a chance to work with the assets he got.

There are a lot of really interesting reads on the guy. Im sure there will be books on "the process" if there arent already.

[Moranis]

You kinda saw the Hinkie firing coming. I feel it was pretty unfair to Hinkie but had to be expected. i hope it was enough to make other GMs think twice about extended tanking projects.

Technically he quit.  He could have stayed on, but it was clear his role had been limited.  Pretty enlightening article about Hinkie came out recently:  http://www.si.com/nba/2016/11/30/sam-hinkie-after-the-process-philadelphia-76ers

I went from thinking he was just some dude who executed ownership's plan to tank... to thinking he's actually a pretty intelligent guy who will very likely have options to return to the NBA when his non-compete ends... though it doesn't sound like he's made up his mind on if he wants to return to the NBA or pursue something else.  He's definitely a peculiar guy, though.   Interesting read.

yeah I think he is a very bright guy. The idea of sucking for a star isnt a new one but the way Hinkie went about it and they way he executed it was really impressive.

I think when Philly hired him there had to be the understanding that they could really be quite bad for a long time. I somewhat doubt that ownership said, "OK you can lead us through the dog days and get us some terrific assets then we will hand it over to someone else to lead us back to real contention". I think its quite unfair but thats how tanks often go. I wish Hinkie had been given a chance to work with the assets he got.

There are a lot of really interesting reads on the guy. Im sure there will be books on "the process" if there arent already.

If he would have just managed the narrative better, the Sixers never would have brought in the Colangelo's.  He was just so one sided on the task at hand he lost site of the bigger issue.  Small things like letting Ish Smith go, just mounted up on him and overwhelmed him. 

[oldtype]

His idea is perfect if you assume that NBA fans, players, agents, owners, and the league office are all robots.  To pull it off in reality, you need amazingly good communication, networking, and marketing skills, which Hinkie clearly didn't have.

[LarBrd33]

His idea is perfect if you assume that NBA fans, players, agents, owners, and the league office are all robots.  To pull it off in reality, you need amazingly good communication, networking, and marketing skills, which Hinkie clearly didn't have.

It definitely sounds like he upset the media and agents.  Rivals/owners were upset he was taking advantage of a loophole by tanking for the best prospects, but I think the bigger issue was how Philly was taking advantage of revenue sharing to turn a profit despite not making attempts to put together a competitive team that paid salaries to vets.

Long-term none of this stuff might matter, because within the next few years if Philly makes the playoffs with their 2+ franchise players, Hinkie will be seen as a bigger hero than he already is.   And if that article is true, multiple teams are already interested in hiring him once his non-compete ends.

[oldtype]

His idea is perfect if you assume that NBA fans, players, agents, owners, and the league office are all robots.  To pull it off in reality, you need amazingly good communication, networking, and marketing skills, which Hinkie clearly didn't have.

It definitely sounds like he upset the media and agents.  Rivals/owners were upset he was taking advantage of a loophole by tanking for the best prospects, but I think the bigger issue was how Philly was taking advantage of revenue sharing to turn a profit despite not making attempts to put together a competitive team that paid salaries to vets.

Long-term none of this stuff might matter, because within the next few years if Philly makes the playoffs with their 2+ franchise players, Hinkie will be seen as a bigger hero than he already is.   And if that article is true, multiple teams are already interested in hiring him once his non-compete ends.

Couple of things here:

1) From a GM's perspective, it doesn't matter that a strategy is good if the end result is that you get fired and somebody else takes credit.

2) As for Hinkie getting hired, why would you need to do that? His grand strategy itself isn't difficult to emulate and he was just okay~good at the nuts and bolts duties of a GM (trading, drafting etc.)  If you're going to super-tank, just hire somebody who's super charismatic that can sell it to the fans and the rest of the league. You don't need Sam Hinkie.

[LarBrd33]

His idea is perfect if you assume that NBA fans, players, agents, owners, and the league office are all robots.  To pull it off in reality, you need amazingly good communication, networking, and marketing skills, which Hinkie clearly didn't have.

It definitely sounds like he upset the media and agents.  Rivals/owners were upset he was taking advantage of a loophole by tanking for the best prospects, but I think the bigger issue was how Philly was taking advantage of revenue sharing to turn a profit despite not making attempts to put together a competitive team that paid salaries to vets.

Long-term none of this stuff might matter, because within the next few years if Philly makes the playoffs with their 2+ franchise players, Hinkie will be seen as a bigger hero than he already is.   And if that article is true, multiple teams are already interested in hiring him once his non-compete ends.

Couple of things here:

1) From a GM's perspective, it doesn't matter that a strategy is good if the end result is that you get fired and somebody else takes credit.

2) As for Hinkie getting hired, why would you need to do that? His grand strategy itself isn't difficult to emulate and he was just okay~good at the nuts and bolts duties of a GM (trading, drafting etc.)  If you're going to super-tank, just hire somebody who's super charismatic that can sell it to the fans and the rest of the league. You don't need Sam Hinkie.

I suggest you read that article if your assumption is that Hinkie will construct a 3+ year tank job wherever he goes.   http://www.si.com/nba/2016/11/30/sam-hinkie-after-the-process-philadelphia-76ers

That plan made sense in Philly.  The biggest piece of credit you can give HInkie is that he didn't abandon a strategy once he set course despite the fact he was facing a lot of misguided criticism.    That strategy isn't necessarily what he'd do on another team with other options.

[bdm860]

that trade didn't get him fired at all, it was his failure to bring enough "for show" veterans in the offseason that got him fired.  He seemed to be so focused on the future that he forgot about what the present looked like and the appearance he was giving.

About the "for show" veterans.  Here I'm assuming you mean basically any veterans (but if not let me know).  There was a super interesting post on Reddit yesterday about what certain veterans bring to the table (specifically Mike Miller), I'll just post the whole thing here:

Mike Miller pretty much sucks. He's been putting up bad numbers, even for a bench player, for like 5 of the last 7 seasons. He can't do almost anything but shoot and there are plenty of young prospects out there who can shoot decently and at least have some upside. So here's why Mike Miller is still in the NBA as told by Dunc'd On's Nate Duncan on a recent episode of the podcast:

Speaking of those two guys [Malik Beasley, Hernangomaez] actually, and we'll close on this: people have wondered why a guy like Mike Miller is still in the league, he basically hasn't played all season. And I gotta little window into that very early on; I got to the game [Nuggets @ Warriors on January 2nd] early, about 5 o'clock, for the 7:30 game. And there was a 3 on 3 game - Miller, Beasley, Hernangomez, Alonzo Gee, and then a couple of the Nuggets assistant coaches, I think Steven Graham was one of em... [he's a] former NBA player... and then another guy I didn't recognize. So they're playing 3 on 3 hard; they played for like 45 minutes, I caught the last 20 minutes of it. They had been playing full court for a time, then they had to switch to half court when some of the Warriors players came out to start shooting. Jauncho [Hernangomez] and Beasley were exhausted... and Mike Miller is sill running around, still in great shape, draining 3s for game point in this 3 on 3 game... ya know talking it up all the time, like, Gee is posting up on Beasley, he's got a size advantage, and he [Mike Miller] is telling Beasley "he's going right shoulder, he's going right shoulder." Just yelling, talking, teaching these guys about the game. Being a great vet. Then afterwards these guys are completely exhausted and Mike Miller's like "hey you guys wanna run some sprints with me?" [Nate chuckles] And makes these guys run sprints with him after they're already just like totally out of gas. And, ya know, they weren't gonna play and that's how you keep those guys in shape, keep their skills sharp, teach those guys on the end of the bench to work. And that's why Mike Miller is still around.

Jauncho had played a total of 8:17 in the previous 8 games before that Warriors game. Malik Beasley hadn't played a single minute in about a month. Neither guy ended up playing against the Warriors.

We hear all the time about "veteran presence" and "being a good locker room guy" but it can be hard to imagine what the tangible effects are when you keep an old ass role model on the roster. This is an example of what you ideally get out of the Mike Miller and James Jones types.

Now I don't know how much this really moves the needle,but I am a believer in the importance of a veteran presence, so I think it definitely helps to have a good locker room vet or two on the roster when rebuilding.  This is something I think Philly could have used a little more of during Hinkie's reign.