Horford free agency thread: Possibly leaving: Page 10

[gpap]

Yes, but the question is how big??!
We already have a huge burden ih Hayward's contract.

Hayward only has 2 years left and then he's gone (only 1 if he doesn't pick up his player option in 2020.)

[gpap]

If there was a realistic path to contention with him here, I would agree.

However, I don't think there is.  Therefore, giving roughly 25% of our cap to a really excellent role player doesn't make sense for a team that is rebuilding.

Why isn't there?

Why is it so impossible for the Celts to contend next year? What am I missing?

[nickagneta]

If there was a realistic path to contention with him here, I would agree.

However, I don't think there is.  Therefore, giving roughly 25% of our cap to a really excellent role player doesn't make sense for a team that is rebuilding.

Why isn't there?

Why is it so impossible for the Celts to contend next year? What am I missing?

When Kyrie wasn't on the floor this year, the team went through massive scoring droughts. The team lost their player that closed games and was able to easily score points when the system broke down. Even with Al and Hayward, unless one of the Jays have a massive bit of development and can become what Kyrie was last year, the team has no chance to contend.

I can see the team being a tremendous defensive unit next year, but I fear their offense is going to struggle most nights.

[gpap]

If there was a realistic path to contention with him here, I would agree.

However, I don't think there is.  Therefore, giving roughly 25% of our cap to a really excellent role player doesn't make sense for a team that is rebuilding.

Why isn't there?

Why is it so impossible for the Celts to contend next year? What am I missing?

When Kyrie wasn't on the floor this year, the team went through massive scoring droughts. The team lost their player that closed games and was able to easily score points when the system broke down. Even with Al and Hayward, unless one of the Jays have a massive bit of development and can become what Kyrie was last year, the team has no chance to contend.

I can see the team being a tremendous defensive unit next year, but I fear their offense is going to struggle most nights.

Well sure, replacing someone of Kyrie's caliber is hard to do. But I can't imagine it would be impossible to find another guard (point or shooting guard) that can be an offensive threat.

[nickagneta]

If there was a realistic path to contention with him here, I would agree.

However, I don't think there is.  Therefore, giving roughly 25% of our cap to a really excellent role player doesn't make sense for a team that is rebuilding.

Why isn't there?

Why is it so impossible for the Celts to contend next year? What am I missing?

When Kyrie wasn't on the floor this year, the team went through massive scoring droughts. The team lost their player that closed games and was able to easily score points when the system broke down. Even with Al and Hayward, unless one of the Jays have a massive bit of development and can become what Kyrie was last year, the team has no chance to contend.

I can see the team being a tremendous defensive unit next year, but I fear their offense is going to struggle most nights.

Well sure, replacing someone of Kyrie's caliber is hard to do. But I can't imagine it would be impossible to find another guard (point or shooting guard) that can be an offensive threat.

There is a massive difference between a 2nd team All-NBA PG who has almost 50/40/90 splits while giving you 24 points and 7 assists a game and almost any offensive PG that is available to the Celtics this off season.

Losing Kyrie lost the chance to contend. There is no sense to overpaying Horford when the team doesn't have the parts currently to contend. If the Jays develop into stars, maybe when they are 24 to 25 years old the team can contend. But that's years away and Horford would be a contractual albatross by then.

[slamtheking]

Yes, but the question is how big??!
We already have a huge burden ih Hayward's contract.

Hayward only has 2 years left and then he's gone (only 1 if he doesn't pick up his player option in 2020.)

he's picking that up, rest assured.  only way he doesn't is if he not only bounces back to prime-Utah form but surpasses that.  of course, if he reaches that level, with a decent improvement from the J's and a decent supporting cast, they're a top 4 team in the East, especially if Kawhi bolts from Toronto. 

[tonydelk]

If there was a realistic path to contention with him here, I would agree.

However, I don't think there is.  Therefore, giving roughly 25% of our cap to a really excellent role player doesn't make sense for a team that is rebuilding.

Why isn't there?

Why is it so impossible for the Celts to contend next year? What am I missing?

When Kyrie wasn't on the floor this year, the team went through massive scoring droughts. The team lost their player that closed games and was able to easily score points when the system broke down. Even with Al and Hayward, unless one of the Jays have a massive bit of development and can become what Kyrie was last year, the team has no chance to contend.

I can see the team being a tremendous defensive unit next year, but I fear their offense is going to struggle most nights.

Well sure, replacing someone of Kyrie's caliber is hard to do. But I can't imagine it would be impossible to find another guard (point or shooting guard) that can be an offensive threat.

The C's can't replace Kyrie's O but could the team be better with a guy like Brogdon who averaged 15, 4, 4 with a loaded Milwakee team.  He Defensive play is so much better the Kyrie that the would be better on that end and he's a lights out shooter.  The size at the 1-3 spots would be tough for any team.  This is the guy I want the C's to get.  Sign a Center like Bryant.

PG - Brogdon
SG - Brown
SF - Tatum
PF - Morris or another FA or a Rookie?? - Tatum could slot here with Haward at the SF spot but I like Hayward coming off the bench early and Tatum coming back in to lead the 2nd team with Hayward & Smart.
C - Bryant - this is the wild card.  We will have all youth at the PF/C Positions.

Bench - Hayward, Smart, Timelord, Semi, Rookies and hopefully a few vets.

[byennie]

Brogdon is interesting to me. Another top tier shooter who has great efficiency and versatility.

Would he accept ~$20M/year and would MIL let him go if we created a sign & trade? Say Baynes, Yabusele and #14 and we absorb about half in terms of cap room?

Then match for Rozier and try to extract an asset or wait for the trade deadline?

Brogdon, Rozier, Brown, Tatum,
Smart, Hayward,

[Silky]

Brogdon is interesting to me. Another top tier shooter who has great efficiency and versatility.

Would he accept ~$20M/year and would MIL let him go if we created a sign & trade? Say Baynes, Yabusele and #14 and we absorb about half in terms of cap room?

Then match for Rozier and try to extract an asset or wait for the trade deadline?

Brogdon, Rozier, Brown, Tatum,
Smart, Hayward,

wit the snell trade earlier today, I would expect them now to match anything up to and including 22 mill.

[celticsclay]

If there was a realistic path to contention with him here, I would agree.

However, I don't think there is.  Therefore, giving roughly 25% of our cap to a really excellent role player doesn't make sense for a team that is rebuilding.

Why isn't there?

Why is it so impossible for the Celts to contend next year? What am I missing?

When Kyrie wasn't on the floor this year, the team went through massive scoring droughts. The team lost their player that closed games and was able to easily score points when the system broke down. Even with Al and Hayward, unless one of the Jays have a massive bit of development and can become what Kyrie was last year, the team has no chance to contend.

I can see the team being a tremendous defensive unit next year, but I fear their offense is going to struggle most nights.

Well I am feeling bummed too Nick, but possibly not quite as bummed as you are.

Here are some things that could offset the loss of Kyrie
1) Getting a Kemba or Holiday or mystery star level point guard with our cap space from horford and kyrie leaving (I don't think this is impossible)
2) Brown or Tatum take a Siacam like leap this year on offense (I think this is reasonably likely that at least one of them does)
3) Hayward becomes an all-star again (I don't know how likely this is, but it is probably more likely than another role player becoming an all-star
4) Getting a starting calibar center (I am a bit flummoxed on who this is, but it doesn't seem impossible)

Sure this is a lot longer list than I would like it to be, but none of these things are like "get giannis for a few first round picks fantasies"

[kraidstar]

A wild and probably terrible idea I just had - trade Hayward, Baynes/Rozier, and picks for Beal and Wall. Then resign Horford.

If Wall recovers we have a loaded team. If not we are hosed. Enormous gamble.

[Silky]

If there was a realistic path to contention with him here, I would agree.

However, I don't think there is.  Therefore, giving roughly 25% of our cap to a really excellent role player doesn't make sense for a team that is rebuilding.

Why isn't there?

Why is it so impossible for the Celts to contend next year? What am I missing?

When Kyrie wasn't on the floor this year, the team went through massive scoring droughts. The team lost their player that closed games and was able to easily score points when the system broke down. Even with Al and Hayward, unless one of the Jays have a massive bit of development and can become what Kyrie was last year, the team has no chance to contend.

I can see the team being a tremendous defensive unit next year, but I fear their offense is going to struggle most nights.

Well I am feeling bummed too Nick, but possibly not quite as bummed as you are.

Here are some things that could offset the loss of Kyrie
1) Getting a Kemba or Holiday or mystery star level point guard with our cap space from horford and kyrie leaving (I don't think this is impossible)
2) Brown or Tatum take a Siacam like leap this year on offense (I think this is reasonably likely that at least one of them does)
3) Hayward becomes an all-star again (I don't know how likely this is, but it is probably more likely than another role player becoming an all-star
4) Getting a starting calibar center (I am a bit flummoxed on who this is, but it doesn't seem impossible)

Sure this is a lot longer list than I would like it to be, but none of these things are like "get giannis for a few first round picks fantasies"

Well the capspace can be used on a pg and a pf
Brown and tatum will take a step forward.
Goga is a quality starting big who will have an immediate impact. I am more and more convinced of it.

[footey]

If there was a realistic path to contention with him here, I would agree.

However, I don't think there is.  Therefore, giving roughly 25% of our cap to a really excellent role player doesn't make sense for a team that is rebuilding.

Why isn't there?

Why is it so impossible for the Celts to contend next year? What am I missing?

When Kyrie wasn't on the floor this year, the team went through massive scoring droughts. The team lost their player that closed games and was able to easily score points when the system broke down. Even with Al and Hayward, unless one of the Jays have a massive bit of development and can become what Kyrie was last year, the team has no chance to contend.

I can see the team being a tremendous defensive unit next year, but I fear their offense is going to struggle most nights.

Well I am feeling bummed too Nick, but possibly not quite as bummed as you are.

Here are some things that could offset the loss of Kyrie
1) Getting a Kemba or Holiday or mystery star level point guard with our cap space from horford and kyrie leaving (I don't think this is impossible)
2) Brown or Tatum take a Siacam like leap this year on offense (I think this is reasonably likely that at least one of them does)
3) Hayward becomes an all-star again (I don't know how likely this is, but it is probably more likely than another role player becoming an all-star
4) Getting a starting calibar center (I am a bit flummoxed on who this is, but it doesn't seem impossible)

Sure this is a lot longer list than I would like it to be, but none of these things are like "get giannis for a few first round picks fantasies"

Well the capspace can be used on a pg and a pf
Brown and tatum will take a step forward.
Goga is a quality starting big who will have an immediate impact. I am more and more convinced of it.

You believe a 19 year old center from Europe will have an immediate impact as a quality starting big? Based on what intel? 

I want to believe you, but feel that is really wishful thinking. 

[nickagneta]

I don't believe there is one player in this draft that would be available to the Celtics that could start for them next year. I am actually skeptical that anyone they draft will even crack the rotation next year. That doesn't mean that Ainge can't hit on that pick by having that pick develop in years 2-4 of their rookie deal. It just means, the talent Ainge will be able to choose from is most likely a project that will need time to develop.

[Green-18]

I don't believe there is one player in this draft that would be available to the Celtics that could start for them next year. I am actually skeptical that anyone they draft will even crack the rotation next year. That doesn't mean that Ainge can't hit on that pick by having that pick develop in years 2-4 of their rookie deal. It just means, the talent Ainge will be able to choose from is most likely a project that will need time to develop.

Pretty much.  If Ainge uses all three picks (unlikely), then I'd prefer him to draft projects with at least two of them.  Who knows, maybe you hit on a guy who becomes a high end contributor in 3 or 4 years.