Jaylen Brown appreciation thread

[Neurotic Guy]

Yikes.  Lots of angry folks taking shots at JB in the game thread.  But, for reasons expressed above, I think that Jaylen is going to get a lot of grief.  Tatum is sort of a sacred cow, KP is the shiny new toy, White is the most likable dude on the team.

The targets for fan criticism on most nights are going to be (in order) Joe, Brown, "the bench", and then probably Jrue (but we haven't really reached that point yet).

I knew after 1 bad game the pitchforks would come out.

otherwise he had a great month.

It is strange how other players seem to have built up more fan equity or something.  Tatum can have a bad week and you don't hear much.  Brown has a bad quarter and it is all you hear about.  And if Mazzulla doesn't call a time out or makes an odd substitution, look out.

That's what a $300M contract does to you. Expectations are off the roof. Can't perform that contract? Deserves every pitchfork they can possibly get.

And he was the one asking for it, so ye shall receive.

You see $$$ signs when you watch him. Honestly, I don’t. I’m looking at guys on the court, whether it’s , PP, JT, Luke, JB and hoping they’ll contribute to a win. When they hurt the team, as Jrue and JB did last night, it’s ok to be critical. But a contract can’t be evaluated on a game to game basis - worse on a play to play basis. That’s ridiculous and that’s what a handful of posters here do.  It’s almost like you’ve never watched a season of basketball to witness ups/downs ebbs/flows,  never seen a star player have bad night; never seen a typically clutch performer blow a game winner….  Happens literally EVERY night - good players have off games.  JB has been fantastic the last month.  He had a bad game and he’s crucified here.

Incidentally, he was crucified here before he earned 2nd team All-NBA and got a max contract. I’m SO glad he’s a Celtic. A great talent - and continually improving his game.

It's only natural to have different expectations for players based on their status, which is defined by their role, previous performances, acquisition costs and also their contract. When Kornet or Queta gets on the court I don't expect or demand them to replace the production of Porzingis or Horford one-on-one for example.

When Brown had an awful start of the season he got criticized in the media. Also partly as a consequence of his notorious collapse in the conference finals. Then in December there were clear signs Brown tried to play more composed team basketball with some outstanding performances.

But this game against OKC he was put to the test when his shots were not falling from the start. Instead of finding other ways to help the team by making his mark on the defense, rebound, hustle or setting up other guys he just kept on shooting. That poor decision making just costs us the game.

Brown is in his eighth year in the league. The Celtics are competing for a Championship. He can't permit himself to keep on making these mistakes. With Brown shrinking in the moment again I lose faith in him doing the right things in the playoffs when it matters. That's for me why I'm very critical on Brown.

Tatum, White and Porzingis have surpassed Brown. And he can't handle that. I'm very suspicious how this is going to work out. Nonetheless Brown is a good player and two-way-wing players are very scarce. So imagining a trade is also not all that easy and it can't happen till summer anyway.

Point well-taken with regard to expectations based on history/costs, etc. but on a game to game (play to play) basis we are looking at whoever is out there and judging whoever is out there on their effectiveness in the moment.  We disagree clearly about JB's effectiveness and whether he's adjusted his game this year based on the addition of two new players who have solid offensive games, and a third (DW) who has taken a leap offensively.  A big adjustment for Jaylen.  He has nonetheless continued to put up all-star numbers and has gradually shown improvement and focus on passing, rebounding, and defense.  Jaylen has played superbly over the last 15 games or so -- before the flop in OKC.  He continues to over-dribble at times, but less so by my observation, and occasionally, as evidenced in OKC, has a terrible game.  He is unquestionably behind JT as a go-to scorer, but I'd put him about equal to KP and still a notch above White (scoring).  JB attracts more attention than Derrick and unfortunately is not as skilled as Derrick at knowing when to get rid of the ball.  That said, he is looking to pass with greater frequency and is doing pretty well doing so for the better part of the season.

A bad game for Jrue (worse than JB) along with two blown opportunities to seal games (one of which the C's lost as a result) doesn't get nearly the attention JBs poor showings get.  Is it because he's making a lot of money?  Maybe, but most of the JB-bashers here were doing so before his new contract and while he was working his way to All-NBA status.   

[RodyTur10]

I didn't want the Celtics to give Brown that contract, so I'll admit that I'm very critical on him. And he has the talent and athletism to make tough shots few others can do. The amount of merit that creates on a very talented team like the Celtics is debatable, but a team like the Nets shows how good role players (Bridges, Thomas, Dinwiddie) suffer by having to take on too many responsibilities on offense.

Although Brown is certainly not a bad defender his main attribute is scoring. There has been an enormous increase in scoring in the NBA. Now we have 54 players scoring over 20 points per game. Just a decade ago that was only 21 players. Jaylen Brown is currently ranked 34th in scoring. And the only guys above him he beats in efficiency are Kyle Kuzma and Cade Cunningham (who are arguably in worse positions to succeed).

In 2013/14, the wingers with a somewhat similar profile at that rank were Nick Young (34th, tied) and Arron Afflalo (32nd). The best comparison to make here is Rudy Gay (21st). And I know I'll upset others, but that's who Brown is: the new Rudy Gay. The statistical similarities are striking.

[Roy H.]

I didn't want the Celtics to give Brown that contract, so I'll admit that I'm very critical on him. And he has the talent and athletism to make tough shots few others can do. The amount of merit that creates on a very talented team like the Celtics is debatable, but a team like the Nets shows how good role players (Bridges, Thomas, Dinwiddie) suffer by having to take on too many responsibilities on offense.

Although Brown is certainly not a bad defender his main attribute is scoring. There has been an enormous increase in scoring in the NBA. Now we have 54 players scoring over 20 points per game. Just a decade ago that was only 21 players. Jaylen Brown is currently ranked 34th in scoring. And the only guys above him he beats in efficiency are Kyle Kuzma and Cade Cunningham (who are arguably in worse positions to succeed).

In 2013/14, the wingers with a somewhat similar profile at that rank were Nick Young (34th, tied) and Arron Afflalo (32nd). The best comparison to make here is Rudy Gay (21st). And I know I'll upset others, but that's who Brown is: the new Rudy Gay. The statistical similarities are striking.

That's a bizarre statistical analysis.  You're looking at scoring rank in isolation, without noting a player's role, teammate, etc.?  And by doing that, you come up with Nick Young and Rudy Gay as a comp?  What would have happened if you'd used last year's stats?  9th in scoring.  So, Jaylen's comps would be Dirk (13th) and Curry (7th)?

[RodyTur10]

I didn't want the Celtics to give Brown that contract, so I'll admit that I'm very critical on him. And he has the talent and athletism to make tough shots few others can do. The amount of merit that creates on a very talented team like the Celtics is debatable, but a team like the Nets shows how good role players (Bridges, Thomas, Dinwiddie) suffer by having to take on too many responsibilities on offense.

Although Brown is certainly not a bad defender his main attribute is scoring. There has been an enormous increase in scoring in the NBA. Now we have 54 players scoring over 20 points per game. Just a decade ago that was only 21 players. Jaylen Brown is currently ranked 34th in scoring. And the only guys above him he beats in efficiency are Kyle Kuzma and Cade Cunningham (who are arguably in worse positions to succeed).

In 2013/14, the wingers with a somewhat similar profile at that rank were Nick Young (34th, tied) and Arron Afflalo (32nd). The best comparison to make here is Rudy Gay (21st). And I know I'll upset others, but that's who Brown is: the new Rudy Gay. The statistical similarities are striking.

That's a bizarre statistical analysis.  You're looking at scoring rank in isolation, without noting a player's role, teammate, etc.?  And by doing that, you come up with Nick Young and Rudy Gay as a comp?  What would have happened if you'd used last year's stats?  9th in scoring.  So, Jaylen's comps would be Dirk (13th) and Curry (7th)?

Jaylen is not a big like Nowitzki or a guard like Curry. Not to mention his profile as a player is completely different. The best comparison would then be Paul George (in 13/14). Which admittedly is a lot more favorable. However if you look at the relative numbers there is a difference with also a defensive advantage for George. And I'd say Brown was indeed better last season.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

This guy has taken two significant steps forward as a player this year.

1. He's become a much better playmaker for his teammates. This is a large reason why many of the bench players have been able to be impactful consistently (the other starters all help with this too).
2. He's become our shut-down defender. Over and over again, in key moments, it's been Brown who has largely taken on the other teams best player, even though we have Tatum, Holiday, and White. When Brown is locked in, he's a half-step below Tony Allen on defense.

I love me some Jaylen Brown and I'm happy he is in green.

[A Future of Stevens]

This guy has taken two significant steps forward as a player this year.

1. He's become a much better playmaker for his teammates. This is a large reason why many of the bench players have been able to be impactful consistently (the other starters all help with this too).
2. He's become our shut-down defender. Over and over again, in key moments, it's been Brown who has largely taken on the other teams best player, even though we have Tatum, Holiday, and White. When Brown is locked in, he's a half-step below Tony Allen on defense.

I love me some Jaylen Brown and I'm happy he is in green.

These were always the steps we have hoped he took. I also am so glad we kept our homegrown superstar. I am a huge Brown fan, but I was concerned with him fitting into our elite talent lineup. He has shut down any doubt I had.

[dannyboy35]

  I’ve had a ton of bad takes through the years but I can’t believe the high percentage of Boston fans that wanted Jaylen traded for a platter of Houston players. So stupid. I HAVE to believe these aren’t Celtics fans first. Just Boston sports fans that are watching while the Pats, Sox, and / or Bruins aren’t on.
  The ridiculous idea that him and Tatum are too similar. If you can shoot, pass and dribble you can play together as long as there is a willingness.  So dumb.
  Last night was scary as heck with Porzingis. Any player going down is frightening . A season can just slip right out of your fingers. Hope we are one of the  fortunate teams to have all our guys at the end.
  But I hope this weird idea to move Jaylen is behind most of the fans. Again, I think it’s more a general Boston sports fan thing.

[knuckleballer]

That ESPN tweet about 48 shots and zero assists seemed to be the kick in the pants he needed.  Since then, he’s been the player I was hoping he could become.

[Celtic Fan Forever]

I’ve been a long time JB critic on here- I must say I’ve been incredibly impressed with how he’s evolved his game recently. He’s really committed consistently to defense and is passing the ball more than I’ve ever seen from him. I think he’s starting to accept that it’s not about him or his numbers and he’s really buying in and playing Celtics basketball.

[Roy H.]

I love JB as a player.  I love the relationship he's built with KP.

If we don't win a title this season, I worry about him being traded, but I guess we'll cross that bridge if we get there.

[green_bballers13]

I love JB as a player.  I love the relationship he's built with KP.

If we don't win a title this season, I worry about him being traded, but I guess we'll cross that bridge if we get there.

I completely agree. This is the best chance that the Celtics have had to win since KG/Pierce. It's put up or shut up time. So far, they've responded well to last year's playoff loss.

JB's 23 points on 50% FG have mattered. I don't think it matters if we call him our # 2, 3, 4, or even 5. He brings consistent energy and is leading the team in steals. We need him to win this championship, then can trade him if that's what needs to happen.

[Vermont Green]

I love JB as a player.  I love the relationship he's built with KP.

If we don't win a title this season, I worry about him being traded, but I guess we'll cross that bridge if we get there.

I completely agree. This is the best chance that the Celtics have had to win since KG/Pierce. It's put up or shut up time. So far, they've responded well to last year's playoff loss.

JB's 23 points on 50% FG have mattered. I don't think it matters if we call him our # 2, 3, 4, or even 5. He brings consistent energy and is leading the team in steals. We need him to win this championship, then can trade him if that's what needs to happen.

At 23 PPG, Jaylen Brown is 29th in the league in scoring.  His efficiency is improved.  That is really good scoring for a second option on a team.  Free Throw shooting is not what it should be and turnovers, although better than recent seasons, could still be improved.

Jaylen is a terrific player  I think just about every other team in league would be happy to add a player who can put up 23 points (or more easily if the situation was different) and play the kind of all around game that he has.

[Phantom255x]

Detroit would be a nice trade partner IF we dealt Jaylen (FYI, I would prefer to win Banner 18 and keep Jaylen long term of course)

Something like Jaylen for Stewart, and 2 of Ivey/Duren/Future 1st round pick(s)

Stewart to me is the ideal Horford replacement. Just too bad he can't be had this trade deadline due to the poison pill restriction. Either way Detroit is gonna have decisions to make. What they have isn't working clearly. Cunningham feels like the only "untouchable" and guy to build with. But even with Stewart, Duren, etc. the group just doesn't work as well and needs more (or maybe another direction)

[blink]

Detroit would be a nice trade partner IF we dealt Jaylen (FYI, I would prefer to win Banner 18 and keep Jaylen long term of course)

Something like Jaylen for Stewart, and 2 of Ivey/Duren/Future 1st round pick(s)

Stewart to me is the ideal Horford replacement. Just too bad he can't be had this trade deadline due to the poison pill restriction. Either way Detroit is gonna have decisions to make. What they have isn't working clearly. Cunningham feels like the only "untouchable" and guy to build with. But even with Stewart, Duren, etc. the group just doesn't work as well and needs more (or maybe another direction)

How about the owners open up their extremely stuffed pocketbooks, and we keep the better player and just shoot for Banner 19?   If we win the title this year, ownership better not be trading our 2nd best player that is bs.

[ozgod]

Detroit would be a nice trade partner IF we dealt Jaylen (FYI, I would prefer to win Banner 18 and keep Jaylen long term of course)

Something like Jaylen for Stewart, and 2 of Ivey/Duren/Future 1st round pick(s)

Stewart to me is the ideal Horford replacement. Just too bad he can't be had this trade deadline due to the poison pill restriction. Either way Detroit is gonna have decisions to make. What they have isn't working clearly. Cunningham feels like the only "untouchable" and guy to build with. But even with Stewart, Duren, etc. the group just doesn't work as well and needs more (or maybe another direction)

How about the owners open up their extremely stuffed pocketbooks, and we keep the better player and just shoot for Banner 19?   If we win the title this year, ownership better not be trading our 2nd best player that is bs.

I don't think the issue is them being cheap...they're over the 2nd apron now and they did give Jaylen a supermax. It's how many years we can withstand the roster building penalties that come from operating as an above-the-2nd-apron team. If we win a championship this season, the only question would be how to keep the players who we won't have under control next year - Jrue being the main one as he has a player option next season for $39.4m, and the others being the bench pieces Brissett (player option $2.5m), Kornet, Mykhailiuk and Stevens (all UFAs), Davison (RFA), Queta (RFA).

We also have to decide what to do with Hauser ($2m club option), and Banton ($2m club option). If they can keep the gang together for another season, and not give Kornet a pay increase (and you can't blame him for wanting one after being on minimum deals his whole career), and get Jrue to take a more team friendly deal that brings us below the 2nd apron (maybe an extension in the $20-25m range since we would be $12m over the 2nd apron if everyone comes back) then they definitely won't be trading Brown.

2025-26 is the big year because that's when Tatum's supermax becomes eligible to be signed. That's going to be somewhere north of $60m plus incentives since the salary cap will be at least $156.2m by then. That's when tough decisions will have to be made, and the decision that Jrue and the team makes this offseason will factor heavily into that. And the year after that Hauser becomes a FA, he's probably going to want, and deserve, more than the $2m we're paying him now. We also have to decide what to do with White (will probably command more than the $19m he's on now), and Al ($10m). Maybe Derrick doesn't end up qualifying for a max contract...maybe Sam doesn't have to be paid Kyle Korver money...maybe Al takes a vet min if he's even still playing by then. That's going to be the season where they have to make some tough decisions on Jaylen and whether to sell high, break his salary into a couple of tradable pieces or stick with him.



BUT...that's a couple of years away and it sucks thinking about it. Living in the now is always more fun, especially since now we're riding high. Much more enjoyable talking about basketball than accounting...so let's not think about it and let Brad worry about it all, then we can blame him at that point for whatever he does