Celtics (25-16) at Magic (17-24) Game #42 1/12/19

[LilRip]

I am not sure that just trading Rozier is going to solve all our problems.  It MIGHT help, but it might help just as much to bench him for a while and play wannamaker as as pass first point guard with the second unit.

I would really like to know what Brad called for that last play.  As someone else said, Kyrie was arguing with Brad during the timeout, and then Kyrie was yelling at Gordon after he passed to Tatum for the last shot.  Is there a chance Brad called that play to go to Tatum and Gordon did exactly as he was supposed to and Kyrie is just p---ed?

Don't see way Kyrie would yell at Gordon if he was just running the play as he was told. It's clear on the replay that Gordon went early, the play barely developed.

Yup! When the pass was made, Kyrie was still at half court and he was only just about to make his move/cut. Really hard to believe that CBS would put Kyrie in there and just have him stand at half court.

As soon as GH made the pass, Kyrie threw his arms up like “what are you doing???”

I do think that Tatum was an option buy Kyrie should always get the ball there.

That’s true. I’m sure there were multiple options. But it’s just crazy that GH didn’t even wait another second for the play to develop.

I would’ve thought that Horford would’ve set a screen or hand off for a downhill Kyrie. Kyrie had pretty much scored on every trip down in previous possessions.

[gpap]

This years team is completely 1000% percent unlikable....hate to say it but I enjoyed the isaiah thomas celtics more.

And that team was never going to sniff a championship. Part of the problem could be Stevens. He's good at coaching overachieving teams that will make it to the 2nd or 3rd of the playoffs however he's inept at coaching an all-star team.

Do you think this team is going to sniff a championship?  Right now they do not look like it.

The talent is there, but something isn't working. I don't know what it is. Right pieces to the puzzle but they don't fit together for some reason.

[Mahk E Mahk]

this will probably seem crazy but brad needs to do something radical to awaken this team. small lineup tweaks, team meetings, second half benchings, etc. have not had the desired effect. to really shake things up, i would try the following immediately:

starting lineup
kyrie (obvious)
smart (defense, toughness)
hayward (facilitator)
al (better at the four)
williams (rebounding, rim protection, energy)

backups
terry
tatum
brown
morris
theis/baynes

the second team lineup would allow most of last year’s late playoff team to reunite, possibly rekindling the chemistry they found. this would also serve to humble guys like tatum & brown, who may have been given too much too soon, leading to their entitlement & lack of consistent effort. hopefully, this lights a fire & teaches them they need to play hard every night.

if the first team struggles with scoring (a real possibility), hayward & morris can be switched. 

admittedly, it’s a bit extreme but it can’t be worse than the current lineups. barring a trade, which seems unlikely, this team needs a major shakeup.

[Somebody]

Think a physical center like Baynes to allow Al to play at the 4 is what we need, it allows us to not play Theis at C for big stretches during the game. Theis is a nice player but he just couldn't bang with the more physical centers in the league yet.

Rotation:
PG: Kyrie-Rozier-Wannamaker
SG: Brown-Smart-Dozier
SF: Tatum-Hayward-Semi
PF: Horford-Morris-Yabu
C: Baynes-Theis-Williams
I know Smart has been phenomenal for us, but him off the bench for us gives us the ball distribution to keep Rozier, Hayward and Morris happy. Meanwhile we can pretty much rotate Baynes and Horford at C so that Horford is fresh and we have an inside presence to bang against the behemoths of the league. Baynes not needing the ball on offense also opens up shots for Kyrie, Brown and Tatum, so we might be able to get everyone their shots.

[jpotter33]

Ugh, watching that again Hayward clearly went early there and not what they were drawing up for Kyrie.

Hayward has to be better than that. Tatum was 6 - 15 at that point. Why the F would you go to him there that early??

Just dumb decisions and poor BBIQ killing us all year long it seems like.

Come on Potter! You're such a smart guy and then type something like this. What do you think players do? They see they are going to get the ball so they run to the scorekeeper's table, check the shooting stats of all the rest of his team mates and then decides "well player A and player B aren't shooting well tonight so I am just going to refuse to pass to them".

Wait wait wait - are you arguing that other players don't have a sense of what players are on and what players are off on a given night, even a seasoned vet All-Star with a high BBIQ like Hayward?? Really? Was he not watching the game, too?

If Hayward didn't have an awareness that Tatum was not on tonight, especially with his jumpshot, then shame on him. That's part of the job, especially a leader on the team. They're professional basketball players, for goodness' sake.

6 for 15 is not a horrific shooting night. If he was 7 for 15 then Tatum would have been having an above his average shooting night. Your sense of being really off in shooting is just bad.

And I would never want a player playing with or for me who decides before a play happens who he is not going to pass to. That's just being a horrible team mate and is just god awful team basketball.

I don't blame Hayward for passing to a guy who is a good shooter and wasn't having a bad shooting night. If Stevens wanted the ball in Kyrie's hands, he should have drawn up a play where Kyrie gets the ball immediately, not wait for a while for Kyrie to get open.

Nail meet head. And that's the larger problem of this whole deal - our coach just continues to make poor decisions that affect the outcome of games game after game. Kyrie was on in the 4th scoring 14 points in the quarter alone. Kyrie - who might've hit the biggest clutch shot in NBA history - is one of the top clutch scorers in the game today, including this season. This is what he's here for. It's baffling that he wasn't a primary option for this play, especially given a lackluster Tatum night.

The worst part about this is it seems like Kyrie is starting to recognize this, too, and the struggles of the team might be starting to get to him, which is a little worrisome given his impending free agency - even with his verbal commitment prio to the season:

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1084282107092975616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084283640127750144&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Kyrie is sitting at his locker just staring straight ahead. Hasn’t showered yet. Most of the other players have already dressed and left.

https://twitter.com/TheRenderNBA/status/1084284423103754240?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084284423103754240&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Kyrie seemed unsure of Brad Stevens' playcall on the final possession (with supporting video)

https://twitter.com/presidual/status/1084277155888918529?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084277155888918529&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Bizarre ending for the Celtics, as Kyrie Irving appeared to voice a preference during the huddle, set up past halfcourt prior to the play, did not get the inbound pass, then expressed frustration with Gordon Hayward, the passer. The Magic prevailed.

https://twitter.com/ASherrodblakely/status/1084281577033687041?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084281577033687041&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

ordon Hayward explains that on the final play, there were a couple different options for the #Celtics - getting it to Jayson Tatum on the curl was one of them. Hayward said Kyrie Irving, visibly upset at the play, would have preferred GH pass the ball to Al Horford instead.

Yeah, I just don't think Stevens is the right coach for this group, or for a team with this much talent at all, at least not yet. He's completely failed to manage this team the entire year, preferring to be Mr. Nice Guy and not make the hard, touch-rationing decisions that need to be made. He doesn't have the stones to do what needs to be done to get this team where it needs to go. Maybe he'll learn, but I'm not sure it's in his nature.

[jpotter33]

I am not sure that just trading Rozier is going to solve all our problems.  It MIGHT help, but it might help just as much to bench him for a while and play wannamaker as as pass first point guard with the second unit.

I would really like to know what Brad called for that last play.  As someone else said, Kyrie was arguing with Brad during the timeout, and then Kyrie was yelling at Gordon after he passed to Tatum for the last shot.  Is there a chance Brad called that play to go to Tatum and Gordon did exactly as he was supposed to and Kyrie is just p---ed?

No. because I refuse to believe Brad is stupid enough to go with Tatum when you have Kyrie on your roster.

Agreed. Watching it again, Kyrie's shoulders shrug as soon as Hayward threw it, so it looks like he was expecting something else.

As for the first part of Blink's message, I'm not sure that I agree. I think one of the youngsters has to go, as there's just not ball to go around for three solid to good youngsters looking to make a name for themselves, and Rozier is the prime target to go given his contract situation, the low likelihood that we can afford him this summer anyways, and the fact that we have Kyrie, who has verbally committed to resign here.

But if Rozier is the guy who we likely won't resign next year, and is most likely to go, who trades for him right now?  The whole league knows where we are at right now. Hard to think we would get much of an offer for him right now.  Who else are we going to trade?  I would still be dead set against trading Brown unless it is for a superstar package.  Morris is having a career season, and we need him right now.  Hayward has negative trade value.  Rozier seems the only option and I just don't see other teams giving up anything.  If that is the case just let him walk this summer.

I mean, I think it's literally addition by subtraction, so might as well get something for him than letting him walk. It's not like he's been actively helping us out there.

[jpotter33]

I am not sure that just trading Rozier is going to solve all our problems.  It MIGHT help, but it might help just as much to bench him for a while and play wannamaker as as pass first point guard with the second unit.

I would really like to know what Brad called for that last play.  As someone else said, Kyrie was arguing with Brad during the timeout, and then Kyrie was yelling at Gordon after he passed to Tatum for the last shot.  Is there a chance Brad called that play to go to Tatum and Gordon did exactly as he was supposed to and Kyrie is just p---ed?

Don't see way Kyrie would yell at Gordon if he was just running the play as he was told. It's clear on the replay that Gordon went early, the play barely developed.

Yup! When the pass was made, Kyrie was still at half court and he was only just about to make his move/cut. Really hard to believe that CBS would put Kyrie in there and just have him stand at half court.

As soon as GH made the pass, Kyrie threw his arms up like “what are you doing???”

I do think that Tatum was an option but Kyrie should always get the ball there.

Exactly. And it's a HUGE problem with the coaching that this wasn't the case, especially after Kyrie put up 14 freaking points in the fourth quarter!

[ozgod]

  this forum overreacts so much to both wins and losses it’s funny sometimes. 3 days ago we had a thread saying all the questions have been answered because we’re good now then 2 losses later the sky is falling in. The last play didn’t work out as planned, it happens. They lost the game because they let Orlando come back and our bench was a collective -50 I think.

 I said after we beat Indiana that I thought we had a way to go and there would be more twists along the way because the team just isn’t consistent. There’s always one or two star players who underperform. With the reduced usage they all have they have to be excellent with the limited opportunities they get and they just haven’t been able to do that.

[Somebody]

this forum overreacts so much to both wins and losses it’s funny sometimes. 3 days ago we had a thread saying all the questions have been answered because we’re good now then 2 losses later the sky is falling in. The last play didn’t work out as planned, it happens. They lost the game because they let Orlando come back and our bench was a collective -50 I think.

 I said after we beat Indiana that I thought we had a way to go and there would be more twists along the way because the team just isn’t consistent. There’s always one or two star players who underperform. With the reduced usage they all have they have to be excellent with the limited opportunities they get and they just haven’t been able to do that.

You think we can do that? I'm not sure we can with Stevens' obsession with small ball.

[gpap]

Ugh, watching that again Hayward clearly went early there and not what they were drawing up for Kyrie.

Hayward has to be better than that. Tatum was 6 - 15 at that point. Why the F would you go to him there that early??

Just dumb decisions and poor BBIQ killing us all year long it seems like.

Come on Potter! You're such a smart guy and then type something like this. What do you think players do? They see they are going to get the ball so they run to the scorekeeper's table, check the shooting stats of all the rest of his team mates and then decides "well player A and player B aren't shooting well tonight so I am just going to refuse to pass to them".

Wait wait wait - are you arguing that other players don't have a sense of what players are on and what players are off on a given night, even a seasoned vet All-Star with a high BBIQ like Hayward?? Really? Was he not watching the game, too?

If Hayward didn't have an awareness that Tatum was not on tonight, especially with his jumpshot, then shame on him. That's part of the job, especially a leader on the team. They're professional basketball players, for goodness' sake.

6 for 15 is not a horrific shooting night. If he was 7 for 15 then Tatum would have been having an above his average shooting night. Your sense of being really off in shooting is just bad.

And I would never want a player playing with or for me who decides before a play happens who he is not going to pass to. That's just being a horrible team mate and is just god awful team basketball.

I don't blame Hayward for passing to a guy who is a good shooter and wasn't having a bad shooting night. If Stevens wanted the ball in Kyrie's hands, he should have drawn up a play where Kyrie gets the ball immediately, not wait for a while for Kyrie to get open.

Nail meet head. And that's the larger problem of this whole deal - our coach just continues to make poor decisions that affect the outcome of games game after game. Kyrie was on in the 4th scoring 14 points in the quarter alone. Kyrie - who might've hit the biggest clutch shot in NBA history - is one of the top clutch scorers in the game today, including this season. This is what he's here for. It's baffling that he wasn't a primary option for this play, especially given a lackluster Tatum night.

The worst part about this is it seems like Kyrie is starting to recognize this, too, and the struggles of the team might be starting to get to him, which is a little worrisome given his impending free agency - even with his verbal commitment prio to the season:

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1084282107092975616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084283640127750144&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Kyrie is sitting at his locker just staring straight ahead. Hasn’t showered yet. Most of the other players have already dressed and left.

https://twitter.com/TheRenderNBA/status/1084284423103754240?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084284423103754240&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Kyrie seemed unsure of Brad Stevens' playcall on the final possession (with supporting video)

https://twitter.com/presidual/status/1084277155888918529?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084277155888918529&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Bizarre ending for the Celtics, as Kyrie Irving appeared to voice a preference during the huddle, set up past halfcourt prior to the play, did not get the inbound pass, then expressed frustration with Gordon Hayward, the passer. The Magic prevailed.

https://twitter.com/ASherrodblakely/status/1084281577033687041?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084281577033687041&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

ordon Hayward explains that on the final play, there were a couple different options for the #Celtics - getting it to Jayson Tatum on the curl was one of them. Hayward said Kyrie Irving, visibly upset at the play, would have preferred GH pass the ball to Al Horford instead.

Yeah, I just don't think Stevens is the right coach for this group, or for a team with this much talent at all, at least not yet. He's completely failed to manage this team the entire year, preferring to be Mr. Nice Guy and not make the hard, touch-rationing decisions that need to be made. He doesn't have the stones to do what needs to be done to get this team where it needs to go. Maybe he'll learn, but I'm not sure it's in his nature.

This....the honeymoon for Brad is over. So glad Wyc gave him a 6 year extension just 3 years into his NBA coaching career otherwise I think this may have been his final season. Good call Wyc

[mctyson]

I am not sure that just trading Rozier is going to solve all our problems.  It MIGHT help, but it might help just as much to bench him for a while and play wannamaker as as pass first point guard with the second unit.

I would really like to know what Brad called for that last play.  As someone else said, Kyrie was arguing with Brad during the timeout, and then Kyrie was yelling at Gordon after he passed to Tatum for the last shot.  Is there a chance Brad called that play to go to Tatum and Gordon did exactly as he was supposed to and Kyrie is just p---ed?

Don't see way Kyrie would yell at Gordon if he was just running the play as he was told. It's clear on the replay that Gordon went early, the play barely developed.

Yup! When the pass was made, Kyrie was still at half court and he was only just about to make his move/cut. Really hard to believe that CBS would put Kyrie in there and just have him stand at half court.

As soon as GH made the pass, Kyrie threw his arms up like “what are you doing???”

I do think that Tatum was an option but Kyrie should always get the ball there.

Exactly. And it's a HUGE problem with the coaching that this wasn't the case, especially after Kyrie put up 14 freaking points in the fourth quarter!

Like I said in another post this is easily Stevens' most difficult coaching/management job of his life and he is not doing well right now.

No one would ever question if he drew up a play for Kyrie and the shot did not go in. 

Having said that, there is are other major issues with the team's play.  Rozier, Brown, and Hayward are all not getting it done.

[jpotter33]

https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1084289722950864896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084289722950864896&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Kyrie Irving with a long, thoughtful answer explaining that team, especially younger players, needs to worker harder and more consistently in order for this team to be great. Said he’s not content to be 5th seed and wants team to fight for better seeding.

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1084289376824295430?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084289376824295430&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Kyrie Irving had a lot to say postgame but what stood out was “The young guys don’t know what it takes to be a championship level team. What it takes every day. And if they think it is hard now, what do they think it will be like when we’re trying to get to the Finals?”

Kyrie continued with “There were no expectations last year. Everyone played free and easy. Everyone surpassed whatever they expected for themselves. This year? We all have high expectations. The players, the coaches, everyone. And that’s good, but we aren’t doing it yet.”

Kyrie ended with “We can get there. We’ve got to be better. I’ve got to be better. We need to win these games on the road. That’s on me as a leader. I need to be a better leader and to help get us there.”

Ugh, there's clearly dissension in that locker room, seemingly between the "old guard" and the "new guard." Someone needs to straighten the young'uns out, because they haven't done ish yet. Brad (and to some extent Danny) has to step up and figure this out, probably through consolidation or getting some of these problematic players (cough Rozier cough) out of the lockerroom; otherwise, we might be looking at Kyrie reneging on his verbal commitment this summer. And if Brad can't do it, then we need to find someone else who can.

[ozgod]

this forum overreacts so much to both wins and losses it’s funny sometimes. 3 days ago we had a thread saying all the questions have been answered because we’re good now then 2 losses later the sky is falling in. The last play didn’t work out as planned, it happens. They lost the game because they let Orlando come back and our bench was a collective -50 I think.

 I said after we beat Indiana that I thought we had a way to go and there would be more twists along the way because the team just isn’t consistent. There’s always one or two star players who underperform. With the reduced usage they all have they have to be excellent with the limited opportunities they get and they just haven’t been able to do that.

You think we can do that? I'm not sure we can with Stevens' obsession with small ball.

Personally I think they will need to thin the roster I think it’s too hard for them. But it won’t happen this year, because a. Ainge will give them every opportunity this year to make it work; and b. They will save assets for a run at AD. So they have to figure it out this year.

The challenge is how to be immediately effective soon as you come on, whether one day you play 30 min and the next 16,  rather than playing yourself in because you know if you mess up you have time to fix things. I didn’t think they would find it this hard but then again I’m not a high caliber NBA player who is used to being the top dog and now has to subordinate himself to others.

[SparzWizard]

https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1084289722950864896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084289722950864896&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Kyrie Irving with a long, thoughtful answer explaining that team, especially younger players, needs to worker harder and more consistently in order for this team to be great. Said he’s not content to be 5th seed and wants team to fight for better seeding.

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1084289376824295430?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1084289376824295430&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Kyrie Irving had a lot to say postgame but what stood out was “The young guys don’t know what it takes to be a championship level team. What it takes every day. And if they think it is hard now, what do they think it will be like when we’re trying to get to the Finals?”

Kyrie continued with “There were no expectations last year. Everyone played free and easy. Everyone surpassed whatever they expected for themselves. This year? We all have high expectations. The players, the coaches, everyone. And that’s good, but we aren’t doing it yet.”

Kyrie ended with “We can get there. We’ve got to be better. I’ve got to be better. We need to win these games on the road. That’s on me as a leader. I need to be a better leader and to help get us there.”

Ugh, there's clearly dissension in that locker room, seemingly between the "old guard" and the "new guard." Someone needs to straighten the young'uns out, because they haven't done ish yet. Brad (and to some extent Danny) has to step up and figure this out, probably through consolidation or getting some of these problematic players (cough Rozier cough) out of the lockerroom; otherwise, we might be looking at Kyrie reneging on his verbal commitment this summer. And if Brad can't do it, then we need to find someone else who can.

Kyrie's not wrong on the young'uns. Rozier, Brown, Tatum gotta step it up. Hayward needs to get it together. Brad Stevens needs to make adjustments. Danny needs to provide appropriate support for Brad. I like that Kyrie is also admitting he needs to be a better leader. This is clearly his team right now.

[Somebody]

this forum overreacts so much to both wins and losses it’s funny sometimes. 3 days ago we had a thread saying all the questions have been answered because we’re good now then 2 losses later the sky is falling in. The last play didn’t work out as planned, it happens. They lost the game because they let Orlando come back and our bench was a collective -50 I think.

 I said after we beat Indiana that I thought we had a way to go and there would be more twists along the way because the team just isn’t consistent. There’s always one or two star players who underperform. With the reduced usage they all have they have to be excellent with the limited opportunities they get and they just haven’t been able to do that.

You think we can do that? I'm not sure we can with Stevens' obsession with small ball.

Personally I think they will need to thin the roster I think it’s too hard for them. But it won’t happen this year, because a. Ainge will give them every opportunity this year to make it work; and b. They will save assets for a run at AD. So they have to figure it out this year.

The challenge is how to be immediately effective soon as you come on, whether one day you play 30 min and the next 16,  rather than playing yourself in because you know if you mess up you have time to fix things. I didn’t think they would find it this hard but then again I’m not a high caliber NBA player who is used to being the top dog and now has to subordinate himself to others.

I agree, players need to be able to play well even when they aren't playing heavy minutes or not getting a ton of shots. Imo the post I wrote regarding the rotation above would be a step in the right direction, there would be more defined roles for everyone to perform in.