Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[keevsnick]

Sometimes its not your night.

[angryguy77]

Joe's drop coverage has been a stoke of genius.

[Indocelts]

If we lose this series then Joe needs to go immediately. We can't wait for 2 more years until he finally gets it.

[Roy H.]

I'm asking a Yes/No question to this entire forum: Are these issues the same as the last 8 years?

Because honestly, I feel they are. And that was even with Ime/Stevens. Also, the team has guys like JVG, Cassell, etc. as assistant coaches and advisors. At some point I start to look at the players more. A ton of reliance on the 3. Players becoming soft and mentally weak. Some terrible lapses in-game.

Mazzulla deserves some blame but I think blaming primarily him is just missing the point frankly.

Do his strategy decisions put the team in the best position to succeed?

[jpotter33]

I'm asking a Yes/No question to this entire forum: Are these issues the same as the last 8 years?

Because honestly, I feel they are. And that was even with Ime/Stevens. Also, the team has guys like JVG, Cassell, etc. as assistant coaches and advisors. At some point I start to look at the players more. A ton of reliance on the 3. Players becoming soft and mentally weak. Some terrible lapses in-game.

Mazzulla deserves some blame but I think blaming primarily him is just missing the point frankly.

No - tonight was absolutely, 100% on Joe not putting his players into positions to succeed. The Heat adjusted, and we've been completely unprepared for it thus far and have not done anything of consequence to adjust.

Even the adjustments we have made have been countered by Miami. Joe refuses to go small, so we have to compensate and overhelp on the defense to cover for KP on the high PnR, so they just make the extra pass and the shooter is open.

Tonight just highlights an elite coach from a poor coach. Joe is a complete embarrassment tonight.

[SCeltic34]

I'm asking a Yes/No question to this entire forum: Are these issues the same as the last 8 years?

Because honestly, I feel they are. And that was even with Ime/Stevens. Also, the team has guys like JVG, Cassell, etc. as assistant coaches and advisors. At some point I start to look at the players more. A ton of reliance on the 3. Players becoming soft and mentally weak. Some terrible lapses in-game.

Mazzulla deserves some blame but I think blaming primarily him is just missing the point frankly.

The issue is that we don't have transcendent talent, and our best player hasn't shown that he consistently perform when it counts most.

Add that to a constant uphill battle that is Joe's terrible coaching, and it's no wonder why we underperform in the playoffs despite our stacked rosters.

[Indocelts]

It's his stuborness that really annoys me. Great coach adjusts.

[Goldstar88]

I'm asking a Yes/No question to this entire forum: Are these issues the same as the last 8 years?

Because honestly, I feel they are. And that was even with Ime/Stevens. Also, the team has guys like JVG, Cassell, etc. as assistant coaches and advisors. At some point I start to look at the players more. A ton of reliance on the 3. Players becoming soft and mentally weak. Some terrible lapses in-game.

Mazzulla deserves some blame but I think blaming primarily him is just missing the point frankly.

Yep. The effort just wasn’t there. Flat all game, no intensity. Very disappointing. White with 13pts, Jrue had 9ts, Porzingis with 6pts. Not going to win many games with performances like that.

[SCeltic34]

I'm asking a Yes/No question to this entire forum: Are these issues the same as the last 8 years?

Because honestly, I feel they are. And that was even with Ime/Stevens. Also, the team has guys like JVG, Cassell, etc. as assistant coaches and advisors. At some point I start to look at the players more. A ton of reliance on the 3. Players becoming soft and mentally weak. Some terrible lapses in-game.

Mazzulla deserves some blame but I think blaming primarily him is just missing the point frankly.

Do his strategy decisions put the team in the best position to succeed?

Joe has been great at failing to get the most out of his talented rosters.  I don't care about the regular season.

Last year's playoff run was an embarrassment.  Lost two games to a significantly inferior Hawks team.  Took 7 games to beat an inferior Philly team.  And then losing an inferior Miami team, even losing three games in a row to start the series.

[jpotter33]

Despite a dominant regular season, it didn't count for many fans.

At what point are we allowed to start judging Joe positively? ECF? Finals?

This season was never about the regular season.  From day 1 of training camp back in the fall, it has been about the playoffs & a championship.   The failure and flameout of the '22 Finals & '23 ECF has led to this expectation. It's essentially been title or bust. 

Regular season was never going to prove anything. Not with this team.

The reason that Joe hasn't received his due adulation yet is because he hasn't done anything that Brad or Ime hasn't already done yet.  This team needs to break thru that ceiling.

I mean, it's worse than that - he's done significantly less with more talent. In one season, Ime took a *substantially* less talented team to Game 6 of the Finals against a dynasty and likely top-15 all-time player, and we were about four minutes from going up 3-1 on them.

[Phantom255x]

I'm asking a Yes/No question to this entire forum: Are these issues the same as the last 8 years?

Because honestly, I feel they are. And that was even with Ime/Stevens. Also, the team has guys like JVG, Cassell, etc. as assistant coaches and advisors. At some point I start to look at the players more. A ton of reliance on the 3. Players becoming soft and mentally weak. Some terrible lapses in-game.

Mazzulla deserves some blame but I think blaming primarily him is just missing the point frankly.

No - tonight was absolutely, 100% on Joe not putting his players into positions to succeed. The Heat adjusted, and we've been completely unprepared for it thus far and have not done anything of consequence to adjust.

Even the adjustments we have made have been countered by Miami. Joe refuses to go small, so we have to compensate and overhelp on the defense to cover for KP on the high PnR, so they just make the extra pass and the shooter is open.

Tonight just highlights an elite coach from a poor coach. Joe is a complete embarrassment tonight.

Good response. I'm not really disagreeing, but to me it's just we've had the same core of guys for a while now (Horford, JT, JB, etc.) and it just seems like it still hasn't clicked for them particularly the Jays. How much do they want it? Even looking at Denver, I don't think Mike Malone is an elite coach, but that team got over the hump when Jokic, Jamal Murray and those guys stepped up their games and dominated in their run last season. I've still yet to seen that from Tatum consistently. He's had a few awesome games no doubt but you need more consistency.

I just think even if you added another coach here not much would change. Like how would another coach suddenly make Porzingis not look like what he did today? To me KP was more mental than it was any major adjustments or schemes, he was just awful from the start.

I guess I just want our players to tough it out more and play like they are on a mission. For a good chunk of today's game it looked like they were coasting. Not a good habit. This was true even with CBS and Ime too.

[jpotter33]

I'm asking a Yes/No question to this entire forum: Are these issues the same as the last 8 years?

Because honestly, I feel they are. And that was even with Ime/Stevens. Also, the team has guys like JVG, Cassell, etc. as assistant coaches and advisors. At some point I start to look at the players more. A ton of reliance on the 3. Players becoming soft and mentally weak. Some terrible lapses in-game.

Mazzulla deserves some blame but I think blaming primarily him is just missing the point frankly.

No - tonight was absolutely, 100% on Joe not putting his players into positions to succeed. The Heat adjusted, and we've been completely unprepared for it thus far and have not done anything of consequence to adjust.

Even the adjustments we have made have been countered by Miami. Joe refuses to go small, so we have to compensate and overhelp on the defense to cover for KP on the high PnR, so they just make the extra pass and the shooter is open.

Tonight just highlights an elite coach from a poor coach. Joe is a complete embarrassment tonight.

Good response. I'm not really disagreeing, but to me it's just we've had the same core of guys for a while now (Horford, JT, JB, etc.) and it just seems like it still hasn't clicked for them particularly the Jays. How much do they want it? Even looking at Denver, I don't think Mike Malone is an elite coach, but that team got over the hump when Jokic, Jamal Murray and those guys stepped up their games and dominated in their run last season. I've still yet to seen that from Tatum consistently. He's had a few awesome games no doubt but you need more consistency.

I just think even if you added another coach here not much would change. Like how would another coach suddenly make Porzingis not look like what he did today? To me KP was more mental than it was any major adjustments or schemes, he was just awful from the start.

I guess I just want our players to tough it out more and play like they are on a mission. For a good chunk of today's game it looked like they were coasting. Not a good habit. This was true even with CBS and Ime too.

Malone is a really good coach, but having a player like Jokic gives you a lot of leeway and margin for error.

As good as Tatum is, he's just not on that level, which makes coaching and putting our guys in spots to succeed even more important and necessary.

This is why hiring Joe - let alone extending him on a big deal - was such a strange decision. Not having that true top-tier level superstar like Jokic, Lebron, Giannis, Curry, etc. means your margin for error is so much smaller, and it makes all of the other pieces that much more important and critical. Hiring a green coach with barely any coaching experience and no NBA playing experience to do two years' worth of on the job training with a title contender is just the worst decision one could make, and tonight is the proof in the pudding with Joe looking completely outclassed all night long.

[scaryjerry]

Despite a dominant regular season, it didn't count for many fans.

At what point are we allowed to start judging Joe positively? ECF? Finals?

This season was never about the regular season.  From day 1 of training camp back in the fall, it has been about the playoffs & a championship.   The failure and flameout of the '22 Finals & '23 ECF has led to this expectation. It's essentially been title or bust. 

Regular season was never going to prove anything. Not with this team.

The reason that Joe hasn't received his due adulation yet is because he hasn't done anything that Brad or Ime hasn't already done yet.  This team needs to break thru that ceiling.

I mean, it's worse than that - he's done significantly less with more talent. In one season, Ime took a *substantially* less talented team to Game 6 of the Finals against a dynasty and likely top-15 all-time player, and we were about four minutes from going up 3-1 on them.

That team may have been “substantially” less talented(not to me personally) you had DPOY year Marcus and when rob was healthy he was an absolute force, younger Al and had white.
That team was also a couple minutes from blowing it against Miami in a game 7 and despite the warriors being a “dynasty” the Celtics should’ve won that series and visibly choked like they often do.
Ime might’ve been what put us over the top to make the finals but a lot of the red flags were there then that are still with us.

[scaryjerry]

I'm asking a Yes/No question to this entire forum: Are these issues the same as the last 8 years?

Because honestly, I feel they are. And that was even with Ime/Stevens. Also, the team has guys like JVG, Cassell, etc. as assistant coaches and advisors. At some point I start to look at the players more. A ton of reliance on the 3. Players becoming soft and mentally weak. Some terrible lapses in-game.

Mazzulla deserves some blame but I think blaming primarily him is just missing the point frankly.

I’m starting to think it has something to do with Tatum as the alpha. Maybe both Tatum/Brown.
Everyone’s wanted to blame Kyrie/hayward/kemba/marcus/all the coaches.
They’re all gone and it’s still the same things happening.

A shame what happened with Ime because at least he got us to the finals. And then the same ole problems reared their ugly head

[SparzWizard]

I'm asking a Yes/No question to this entire forum: Are these issues the same as the last 8 years?

Because honestly, I feel they are. And that was even with Ime/Stevens. Also, the team has guys like JVG, Cassell, etc. as assistant coaches and advisors. At some point I start to look at the players more. A ton of reliance on the 3. Players becoming soft and mentally weak. Some terrible lapses in-game.

Mazzulla deserves some blame but I think blaming primarily him is just missing the point frankly.

Jaylen Brown is a culprit. He's been here the longest. Time to ship him out! And take Joe with him.