Author Topic: What is the price for Deandre Ayton  (Read 6344 times)

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Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2023, 03:57:12 PM »

Offline RJ87

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What concerns me most about Ayton is his total lack of improvement. He has 5 seasons in the NBA now, 348 total games (inc. playoffs), and we have seen no improvement. He is the same scorer, rebounder, defender, passer, everything! How is that even possible?

Exactly. He's the exact same player he was when he was drafted. That's a sign of a lousy work ethic.
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Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2023, 05:10:38 PM »

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What concerns me most about Ayton is his total lack of improvement. He has 5 seasons in the NBA now, 348 total games (inc. playoffs), and we have seen no improvement. He is the same scorer, rebounder, defender, passer, everything! How is that even possible?

Exactly. He's the exact same player he was when he was drafted. That's a sign of a lousy work ethic.

Minus the fact he was one of the worst defensive players in the league his first two years in the league and turned himself into an above average defender.

Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2023, 05:12:52 PM »

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What about sending Horford and Brogdon to Phoenix then flipping Ayton to Toronto for Siakim? Toronto in more of a position to reset with a young guy. We get 3rd star and Phoenix gets more experience.  Shamet to Boston and Payne to Toronto to balance out salaries.

Would need to find another center because I'm sure we don't want to role with Rob, Muscala, and Kornet only.

If you are Phoenix and you could get Siakam for Ayton, would you choose Horfod & Brogdon over Siakam?

I'd take Siakam over those two guys if I were PHO. No need to include BOS in the deal and let them get the best player.

Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2023, 05:15:36 PM »

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There's a reason the Suns want to dump Ayton. He is soft and shrinks under the bright lights.

Not the kind of guy we need on a team with mental toughness issues.
They have to trade him because of their depth and salary structure.  He is basically the only piece they have to add depth to their roster.

If money is no object to the C's, I've proposed this on here before and I still think it makes sense.

Ayton, Paul


for

Smart, Brogdon, Pritchard, Gallinari

I'd do that even with knowing Paul is going to get hurt at some point.  I'd try Ayron and Rob at least at the start of the year and see how they fit.

So Boston

Starters - Paul, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Ayton
Main bench - White, Hauser, Grant, Muscala, Rob

I would love Ayton on the Celtics, I just don't think they are giving him up for that. We love Smart here I get it, but I don't believe he is viewed that highly around the league. Brogdon? We got him for nothing for a reason. Was Great coming off the bench, but he Still got hurt. So why would the Suns do it? Ayton is there only real chip to get a great player back. So who would they realisticly take In a trade? Probably JB, and I would say No way!

I would be surprised if they can get a great player for Ayton.

I would think a good player or two, or cap flexability, or multiple role players is the return they could most likely expect.

Ayton is highly paid. He is a 3rd/4th option. Concerns over his mentality. Tough to see a team giving up a star player for him. Not impossible but I don't like their odds.

Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2023, 07:12:34 PM »

Offline gouki88

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What concerns me most about Ayton is his total lack of improvement. He has 5 seasons in the NBA now, 348 total games (inc. playoffs), and we have seen no improvement. He is the same scorer, rebounder, defender, passer, everything! How is that even possible?

Exactly. He's the exact same player he was when he was drafted. That's a sign of a lousy work ethic.

Minus the fact he was one of the worst defensive players in the league his first two years in the league and turned himself into an above average defender.
How is he above average? I see nothing to indicate he is anything but mediocre
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2023, 07:52:56 PM »

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What concerns me most about Ayton is his total lack of improvement. He has 5 seasons in the NBA now, 348 total games (inc. playoffs), and we have seen no improvement. He is the same scorer, rebounder, defender, passer, everything! How is that even possible?

Exactly. He's the exact same player he was when he was drafted. That's a sign of a lousy work ethic.

Minus the fact he was one of the worst defensive players in the league his first two years in the league and turned himself into an above average defender.
How is he above average? I see nothing to indicate he is anything but mediocre

I like everything he does defensively. I rate him as good or very good at every task he is asked to do.

Quote
His defense is under-rated. He is good to very good at every task you want your center to be able to do. At man defense on post player, man defense on face up quick bigs, man defense against perimeter bigs. Team defense with transition D, PnR D, switching, closing out onto shooters, defensive rotations, contesting shots at the basket. He does everything well to very well on defense.

Being a well-rounded defender is undervalued. Guys with major strengths but also significant weaknesses tend to get overvalued defensively whereas guys like Ayton get undervalued.


I agree with the general point about the lack of development with Ayton. The so-so work ethic.

I don't think any team that has Ayton should look at him as a guy with huge upside because of this reason. They should look at him as closer to a finished product. Some marginal improvement here or there but mostly he is what he is.

I am fine with that. I like Ayton. He is no Franchise player. No All-Star. He could've been those things if he worked harder but he didn't and he is not. But he is a good 3rd best player on a team. I like the work he does defensively, the rebounding and good offensive player. A player who helps you in all three phases of the game and makes your team better.



I do think it is unfair to say he hasn't improved at all because he was literally one of the worst defenders in the league when he was a rookie and a second year player. He was terrible. Even you are not high on his defense and rate him closer to average, that is a darn sight better than what he was as a rookie.

Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2023, 03:56:16 AM »

Offline gouki88

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What concerns me most about Ayton is his total lack of improvement. He has 5 seasons in the NBA now, 348 total games (inc. playoffs), and we have seen no improvement. He is the same scorer, rebounder, defender, passer, everything! How is that even possible?

Exactly. He's the exact same player he was when he was drafted. That's a sign of a lousy work ethic.

Minus the fact he was one of the worst defensive players in the league his first two years in the league and turned himself into an above average defender.
How is he above average? I see nothing to indicate he is anything but mediocre

I like everything he does defensively. I rate him as good or very good at every task he is asked to do.

Quote
His defense is under-rated. He is good to very good at every task you want your center to be able to do. At man defense on post player, man defense on face up quick bigs, man defense against perimeter bigs. Team defense with transition D, PnR D, switching, closing out onto shooters, defensive rotations, contesting shots at the basket. He does everything well to very well on defense.

Being a well-rounded defender is undervalued. Guys with major strengths but also significant weaknesses tend to get overvalued defensively whereas guys like Ayton get undervalued.


I agree with the general point about the lack of development with Ayton. The so-so work ethic.

I don't think any team that has Ayton should look at him as a guy with huge upside because of this reason. They should look at him as closer to a finished product. Some marginal improvement here or there but mostly he is what he is.

I am fine with that. I like Ayton. He is no Franchise player. No All-Star. He could've been those things if he worked harder but he didn't and he is not. But he is a good 3rd best player on a team. I like the work he does defensively, the rebounding and good offensive player. A player who helps you in all three phases of the game and makes your team better.



I do think it is unfair to say he hasn't improved at all because he was literally one of the worst defenders in the league when he was a rookie and a second year player. He was terrible. Even you are not high on his defense and rate him closer to average, that is a darn sight better than what he was as a rookie.
I get that his ability on that end is well-rounded, but his impact on defence has been thoroughly average for most of his career. Doesn't seem to make any defences better
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2023, 09:10:42 PM »

Offline flybono

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Smart RWilliams for Ayton
Play Ayton at the 4

Williams is nothing more than a defender who is often injured
Smart at crunch time can’t shoot




Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2023, 10:11:46 PM »

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One of the things Brad Stevens has shown a commitment to is character and personality. Every guy that he has brought in and prioritized has had high character and a personality that fits with our guys.

As a talent and with his play style, I think Ayton is pretty good and has really good upside. Maybe the Js are old enough and the culture is solid enough to bring a guy like Ayton in, but I suspect that Stevens would violate one of his team-building rules to bring a guy like that in right now.

But if this were 2k, you can't deny that they on-court stuff would be interesting. 

Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2023, 10:41:47 PM »

Offline gouki88

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One of the things Brad Stevens has shown a commitment to is character and personality. Every guy that he has brought in and prioritized has had high character and a personality that fits with our guys.

As a talent and with his play style, I think Ayton is pretty good and has really good upside. Maybe the Js are old enough and the culture is solid enough to bring a guy like Ayton in, but I suspect that Stevens would violate one of his team-building rules to bring a guy like that in right now.

But if this were 2k, you can't deny that they on-court stuff would be interesting.
Except for the coach…
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2023, 06:45:05 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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He ll never do anything but pick up his million dollar pay checks ,  he is just another 7 ft guy passing though the NBA .

Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2023, 07:14:10 AM »

Offline Birdman

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Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2023, 07:40:01 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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Ayton to the Celtics makes very little sense to me. He just doesn't fit how the team plays, isn't a great fit next to Tatum, and his salary is a problem long term.

I do think he is an interesting piece in a 3 team trade. Brogdon is a nice fit with Booker and Durant and the Suns should be able to find a 3 team 2-1 deal involving Ayton.




 
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Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2023, 08:58:02 AM »

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One of the things Brad Stevens has shown a commitment to is character and personality. Every guy that he has brought in and prioritized has had high character and a personality that fits with our guys.

As a talent and with his play style, I think Ayton is pretty good and has really good upside. Maybe the Js are old enough and the culture is solid enough to bring a guy like Ayton in, but I suspect that Stevens would violate one of his team-building rules to bring a guy like that in right now.

But if this were 2k, you can't deny that they on-court stuff would be interesting.
Except for the coach…

Mazz has been good there. Are talking about Ime? Because they showed the commitment to that. He was fine before he was hired. Then they fired him when issues came up.

I just really wonder at what point we have strong enough culture to take a chance on a high upside guy.

Re: What is the price for Deandre Ayton
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2023, 09:11:46 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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We get mad about Jaylen, Smart, etc. being lackadaisical at times on defense and for being lazy during stretches leading to turnovers/bad decisions, yet at the same time want to go hard after KAT/Ayton-types lol. If you need to deal Jaylen for Ayton, absolutely pass. Smart/Brogdon + picks for Ayton I'd consider, BUT that's it. If they want White/Timelord in addition, hell no.

There's a reason PHO is dangling him. Frankly I think the Suns were better off not matching the Pacers' offer for Ayton last year. Ayton is definitely not a 30M AAV big. Not even close to the levels of AD/Embiid/Jokic but paid like it...
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