All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[GratefulCs]

If I knew how to post gifs, I would post the Ron Paul "it's all happening" gif

But I don't, so I won't

[GratefulCs]

Never say never in the East.   Certainly plausible.

never say never in the east..

..

Unless you're talking about a non Cleveland team making the finals

[86MaxwellSmart]

They are playing great---but I fully expect them to barely miss the playoffs--and once again get a Top 3 Pick, thanks to the Lottery.

[Donoghus]

I guess the question is; did they dig themselves too big of a hole to start things off?  Can they go something like 24-14 or 25-13 the rest of the way?

[Moranis]

I think that having some grown ups in that lineup is more helpful than most are acknowledging.  Ilyasova, Rodriquez, Henderson, and Covington are providing much needed experience and steady leadership.

Ilyasova has been a great fit.  He is the exact type of PF they need.  I think Saric will be that guy someday, but a foreign rookie just can't do what a vet like Ilyasova can do.  It is a shame for them that Bayless got hurt, as he is a much better PG than McConnell (and they could really use his shooting).

Ilyasova is a perfect fit because he can shoot the ball

Saric is very inconsistent and not confident in his jump shot

So I wonder how Ben Simmons will change the starting lineup dynamics....

I mean if this odd starting 5 lineup they have now , keep on trucking ....  Ben Simmons weighs it down, there could be a possibility Simmons could be available down the road? Same for Saric who is a similar type of player (not as explosive, but point power forwards that can't shoot)

I can actually see the 76ers having a good amount of interest in Olynyk this summer if they want to continue the "Ilyasova at pf theme"

Saric is shooting 34% from three.  Ilyasova only eclipsed that once in his first three seasons.  Olynyk was right around 35% his first two years before jumping to 40% in year three (though has regressed to 37% this year).  A bit early to right Saric's outside shooting off.  Obviously he is inconsistent, but he is a rookie, that is what they are.

It will be interesting to see how Simmons fits in.  I think they probably start him for Covington a lot and get him more used to the wing where he will be offensively.  No matter what they do with him, Simmons isn't getting moved.

[Tr1boy]

I think that having some grown ups in that lineup is more helpful than most are acknowledging.  Ilyasova, Rodriquez, Henderson, and Covington are providing much needed experience and steady leadership.

Ilyasova has been a great fit.  He is the exact type of PF they need.  I think Saric will be that guy someday, but a foreign rookie just can't do what a vet like Ilyasova can do.  It is a shame for them that Bayless got hurt, as he is a much better PG than McConnell (and they could really use his shooting).

Ilyasova is a perfect fit because he can shoot the ball

Saric is very inconsistent and not confident in his jump shot

So I wonder how Ben Simmons will change the starting lineup dynamics....

I mean if this odd starting 5 lineup they have now , keep on trucking ....  Ben Simmons weighs it down, there could be a possibility Simmons could be available down the road? Same for Saric who is a similar type of player (not as explosive, but point power forwards that can't shoot)

I can actually see the 76ers having a good amount of interest in Olynyk this summer if they want to continue the "Ilyasova at pf theme"

Saric is shooting 34% from three.  Ilyasova only eclipsed that once in his first three seasons.  Olynyk was right around 35% his first two years before jumping to 40% in year three (though has regressed to 37% this year).  A bit early to right Saric's outside shooting off.  Obviously he is inconsistent, but he is a rookie, that is what they are.

It will be interesting to see how Simmons fits in.  I think they probably start him for Covington a lot and get him more used to the wing where he will be offensively.  No matter what they do with him, Simmons isn't getting moved.

Also compare 3 pt attempts plus per not just per

[LarBrd33]

Oh Snap!  Another Sixers thread! 

Superstars gonna superstar.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18558285/why-joel-embiid-belongs-mvp-discussion

https://theringer.com/joel-embiid-sixers-best-nba-centers-8e14d8e954c0#.8q7av1vyx

It might not last.  Barring injuries, they could be a contender in the next couple years, but in the short-term it'll be really hard for them to keep winning with Embiid on a minutes restriction and missing back-to-backs.  They could hit a wall and injuries are still a concern, but if anyone ever had trouble understanding the whole argument for tanking and the impact of Superstars, look no further than what Joel Embiid is doing in Philly.   Their "losing culture" was erased in a couple weeks - so much so that the players even were able to win a couple games without him.  They play at a 56 win pace with him on the court.  He's been completely dominant on the defensive end - and as a result of that one player's participation, the 76ers have been the best defensive team in the league so far in 2017.   This is what I've been trying to get people to understand for three years.  Hopefully people are starting to get it.  They've been legitimately better than the Celtics so far in 2017.  All because of one player. 

There's three reasons why this forum has been completely obsessed with Philly for three years.  Hundreds of threads have been created by various Celtic fans.  There's a new one almost daily.   

#1 - The long-time rivalry between our two teams. 

#2 - Their big man log jam is an intriguing situation for a team that has long needed a big man.  You people start Philly trade ideas constantly.

#3 - We both started tanking at the same time in 2013.  We both bottomed out.  They ended up with Embiid.  We ended up with Smart.  Boston had more assets to begin with, so they bounced back quickly by swapping all-stars like Rondo for competent players like Crowder and using assets received in the KG/Pierce dumping to bring on Thomas.    Philly took 24 more months, but they are starting to bounce back as well.  Makes you wonder if they would have bounced back Embiid's rookie year had he not been injured.  Now we find ourselves 10 games ahead of them, but frighteningly playing at a similar level with them on the verge of potentially leapfrogging us if we don't make significant improvements via trade or the draft.   

I honestly doubt they make the playoffs this year, but it's well within reason.  They started this run with the exact same record Boston had two seasons ago when they rallied into the playoffs with a losing record.  It's not unheard of.  Long-term, if they stay healthy you should be afraid of them.  A dominant two-way big man is can be the difference between a 20 win and 60 win team.  That's why Philly has been desperate to acquire a dominant big man since before Sam Hinkie even took the job (hence the Bynum trade).  It looks like they succeeded in finding one.

For a moment there I thought it was Larbrd33 who started this thread.

It's extremely rare that I start one of these threads.   There's literally hundreds of Philly threads on this forum, though.  Maybe 1 in every 900 is started by me.   I already proved this here:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=87161.msg2167876#msg2167876 .  This forum is obsessed with them.

[Androslav]

I would say Šarić brings a lot to a team considering he is a NBA rookie.
Embiid is next Hakeem.
Socialy inteligent, he has it all.
I am rooting for them. My 2nd favorite team to watch.

[Moranis]

I think that having some grown ups in that lineup is more helpful than most are acknowledging.  Ilyasova, Rodriquez, Henderson, and Covington are providing much needed experience and steady leadership.

Ilyasova has been a great fit.  He is the exact type of PF they need.  I think Saric will be that guy someday, but a foreign rookie just can't do what a vet like Ilyasova can do.  It is a shame for them that Bayless got hurt, as he is a much better PG than McConnell (and they could really use his shooting).

Ilyasova is a perfect fit because he can shoot the ball

Saric is very inconsistent and not confident in his jump shot

So I wonder how Ben Simmons will change the starting lineup dynamics....

I mean if this odd starting 5 lineup they have now , keep on trucking ....  Ben Simmons weighs it down, there could be a possibility Simmons could be available down the road? Same for Saric who is a similar type of player (not as explosive, but point power forwards that can't shoot)

I can actually see the 76ers having a good amount of interest in Olynyk this summer if they want to continue the "Ilyasova at pf theme"

Saric is shooting 34% from three.  Ilyasova only eclipsed that once in his first three seasons.  Olynyk was right around 35% his first two years before jumping to 40% in year three (though has regressed to 37% this year).  A bit early to right Saric's outside shooting off.  Obviously he is inconsistent, but he is a rookie, that is what they are.

It will be interesting to see how Simmons fits in.  I think they probably start him for Covington a lot and get him more used to the wing where he will be offensively.  No matter what they do with him, Simmons isn't getting moved.

Also compare 3 pt attempts plus per not just per

Ersan's first 3 years he had 2.2, 3, and 2 attempts per game shooting 36.5, 33.6, and 29.8 with a 3PAr of 40.8, 33.1, 23.9.  Kelly's first 2 years he had 1.6 and 2.7 attempts per game shooting 35.1 and 34.9 with a 3PAr of 22.7 and 33.1.  Dario this year has more attempts at 3.7 and is shooting 34.1 his 3PAr is 40.2 (so his rate is inline with Ersan's rookie year).  Their minutes were all in the same general range. 

[jpotter33]

I think that having some grown ups in that lineup is more helpful than most are acknowledging.  Ilyasova, Rodriquez, Henderson, and Covington are providing much needed experience and steady leadership.

Yeah, it's not the tanking that's paid dividends, other than Embiid, it's that they have some decent vets.  McConnell has been much better than anyone anticipated.

Embiid has been the difference between the team having a warriors level net rating and the team playing at a 2015-16 Sixers net rating... (in 2017 that is)

It's not the vets, it's Embiid. Well that and Okafor not playing.

Certainly explains why they just won two in a row without Embiid, huh?

It's having actual vets on this team and not blatantly tanking that's played a large part in making this team not a laughingstock and a respectable team now. Embiid has certainly been fantastic, but he's not the sole reason they're playing better now, as evidenced by the two recent back-to-back wins without Embiid or Okafor.

And regarding Okafor. He's certainly terrible, but I don't think you can blame this on him just not playing. It's more about having actual GOOD fits on their roster rather than trying to play the "twin towers" lineup or force bad fits elsewhere, like Noel and Okafor. By having a good fit at the 4 next to Embiid and Noel, they actually have lineups that are functional both offensively and defensively. It's part of the reason why many assume there will be a drop-off in play a bit when Simmons comes back, because A) he's going to be on a major curve being his first NBA experience against NBA level competition, and B) he's not the same quality of fit at the 4 next to Embiid/Noel, especially Noel offensively, as Ily or Saric is.

I'm still not 100% confident that's a great fit long-term either. Having another big playmaker like that might take the ball out of Embiid's hands too frequently, which I don't think Philly wants.

So I'd say there's three main reasons they're a respectable ball team this year rather than a joke like the last few years:
1) Embiid's great play
2) Having actual vets on the roster
3) Having a good-fitting roster

[LarBrd33]

I think that having some grown ups in that lineup is more helpful than most are acknowledging.  Ilyasova, Rodriquez, Henderson, and Covington are providing much needed experience and steady leadership.

Yeah, it's not the tanking that's paid dividends, other than Embiid, it's that they have some decent vets.  McConnell has been much better than anyone anticipated.

Embiid has been the difference between the team having a warriors level net rating and the team playing at a 2015-16 Sixers net rating... (in 2017 that is)

It's not the vets, it's Embiid. Well that and Okafor not playing.

Certainly explains why they just won two in a row without Embiid, huh?

It's having actual vets on this team and not blatantly tanking that's played a large part in making this team not a laughingstock and a respectable team now. Embiid has certainly been fantastic, but he's not the sole reason they're playing better now, as evidenced by the two recent back-to-back wins without Embiid or Okafor.

And regarding Okafor. He's certainly terrible, but I don't think you can blame this on him just not playing. It's more about having actual GOOD fits on their roster rather than trying to play the "twin towers" lineup or force bad fits elsewhere, like Noel and Okafor. By having a good fit at the 4 next to Embiid and Noel, they actually have lineups that are functional both offensively and defensively. It's part of the reason why many assume there will be a drop-off in play a bit when Simmons comes back, because A) he's going to be on a major curve being his first NBA experience against NBA level competition, and B) he's not the same quality of fit at the 4 next to Embiid/Noel, especially Noel offensively, as Ily or Saric is.

I'm still not 100% confident that's a great fit long-term either. Having another big playmaker like that might take the ball out of Embiid's hands too frequently, which I don't think Philly wants.

So I'd say there's three main reasons they're a respectable ball team this year rather than a joke like the last few years:
1) Embiid's great play
2) Having actual vets on the roster
3) Having a good-fitting roster

Uh ... yeah... that's what I've been trying to explain to people here for 3 years.   Landing Superstars is the hardest thing to do in this league.  YOu either do it via the draft, via free agency or via trade.  Philly wasn't going to add one via free agency (nobody was going there) or trade (they had nothing worthwhile to trade), so tanking was a logical move.  Even if they didn't succeed in landing a superstar via the draft, the picks might have ended up being the assets they needed to maybe target a superstar via trade (the Danny Ainge method).   

On the flip side, mediocre vets are extremely easy to add.  Multiple times I have tried telling you people that Philly could easily add "the Brandon Bass's of the world" when they were ready to start winning.  There was no point to doing that when Embiid was hurt.  It was obviously going to happen once their superstar prospects returned.  Hinkie obviously would have added some two summers had they not opted to give Embiid bonegraft.... and I explained multiple times that it was just going to delay it one year until Embiid returned.  Obviously Hinkie wasn't there to make those moves, but adding guys like Illysova and Henderson were logical no-brainer moves for a team that was ready to start trying to build a competent team.  That was obviously the next step.  Get a superstar, figure out what fits around the superstar and add those players.  It all starts with Embiid.

[celticsclay]

So instead of talking about whether they will really make the playoffs this turns into another thread of people arguing over how good Saric is and why their tank was so great and LB got it, but nobody else did?  Sigh

[tazzmaniac]

Embiid is the predominant reason that the Sixers are winning both from his performance and attitude.  With Embiid on court, the Sixers team +/- is 2.2.  With him off court, the Sixers team +/- is -6.6.  In January, Embiid has blocked 21 shots while only allowing 15 shots made at the rim.  Here's a comparison of Embiid's recent rim protection with Smart's 3pt shooting.  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3MFV6NWIAAS_TL.jpg   

The vet argument is weak.  The Sixers have 4 vets on their team.  Bayless who only played 3 games and is out for the season.  Rodriguez who is horrible defensively and lost his staring job to a 2nd year undrafted player.  The Sixers recent winning streak coincides with Rodriguez getting injured and McConnell taking over.  Henderson's been decent but the team's +/- is actually better with him off court (-1.6 vs -3..  He's been coming off the bench recently behind Stauskas.  Ilyasova is really the only vet that has made a significant positive impact. 

As for Simmons coming back, I'd expect him to take minutes from Stauskas and Rodriguez.   I'd expect their starting lineup to be McConnell, Covington, Simmons, Ilyasova and Embiid.   Simmons should be a great fit with Embiid and the other Sixers bigs.  His elite passing/court vision will get them a lot better shots at the basket.  Embiid isn't going to have to work as hard offensively and I'd expect his turnovers to come down a lot. 

[colincb]

So instead of talking about whether they will really make the playoffs this turns into another thread of people arguing over how good Saric is and why their tank was so great and LB got it, but nobody else did?  Sigh

There's been problems for awhile.

[jpotter33]

Embiid is the predominant reason that the Sixers are winning both from his performance and attitude.  With Embiid on court, the Sixers team +/- is 2.2.  With him off court, the Sixers team +/- is -6.6.  In January, Embiid has blocked 21 shots while only allowing 15 shots made at the rim.  Here's a comparison of Embiid's recent rim protection with Smart's 3pt shooting.  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3MFV6NWIAAS_TL.jpg   

The vet argument is weak.  The Sixers have 4 vets on their team.  Bayless who only played 3 games and is out for the season.  Rodriguez who is horrible defensively and lost his staring job to a 2nd year undrafted player.  The Sixers recent winning streak coincides with Rodriguez getting injured and McConnell taking over.  Henderson's been decent but the team's +/- is actually better with him off court (-1.6 vs -3..  He's been coming off the bench recently behind Stauskas.  Ilyasova is really the only vet that has made a significant positive impact. 

As for Simmons coming back, I'd expect him to take minutes from Stauskas and Rodriguez.   I'd expect their starting lineup to be McConnell, Covington, Simmons, Ilyasova and Embiid.   Simmons should be a great fit with Embiid and the other Sixers bigs.  His elite passing/court vision will get them a lot better shots at the basket.  Embiid isn't going to have to work as hard offensively and I'd expect his turnovers to come down a lot.

Don't expect that lineup to work at all. Covington is more of a 3/4 not a 2/3, and I don't think he can guard 2 guards consistently. And Simmons is pretty clearly a 4 not a 3, just as that famous saying goes - "If you have to question whether a player is a 3 or a 4, he's a 4." I also don't see how that works defensively with Simmons and Ilyasova either. Neither of them can guard the quicker small forwards in the league, and switching off Covington onto a quicker forward puts Simmons of Ilyasova on a guard, which is also doomed to fail.

This is going to be just like the twin towers lineup where it's clear right off the bat that Simmons is a 4, can't play the 3 successfully for long bouts, and Embiid and Simmons must be at the 5 and 4 together, respectively.

EDIT: Completely different games and skill levels, but Simmons is a lot like Jerebko positioning and body-wise. His body suggests he can be a big 3, but he's not effective there and is clearly a quicker 4. Simmons is certainly a bit more athletic than Jerebko, but he weighs significantly more and doesn't have the foot speed or lateral movement to defend small forwards. Griffin is also a very good comp for Ben, and he's also a clear 4 rather than a 3.