All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[celticsclay]

Minnesota is a poorly constructed team.  They have a lot of offensive chuckers without any real defenders.  Dieng and KAT are a bad mix up front.  Rubio, Lavine, and Wiggins just doesn't work in the backcourt.  They then hired a defensive oriented coach, that isn't a great offensive coach, to coach a bunch of great offensive players that are terrible to poor defenders.  It is just a bad mix of players/coaching in Minnesota. 

The Sixers are put together much better assuming they pick up a guard in the draft.  They will have a two way anchor at center (Embiid), a solid stretch 4 (Saric), a 3 and D veteran SF (Covington), and two rookies in the backcourt (one the #1 pick in the draft (Simmons), and the other at least a top 7 pick (whomever they land this summer)).  Plus they will have some quality vets on the bench in Henderson, Bayless, Rodriguez, with some other young guys that will continue to grow in Okafor, Anderson, Stauskas, McConnell, and Holmes.  That also doesn't account for the possibility of getting the Lakers pick and their immense cap space from which they could add talent. 

And to be fair, I said if Simmons lives up to the hype (and called it a big if), they would be one of the better teams in the NBA in 3 years.  Very good chance he doesn't live up to the hype.

Do you learn nothing from doing this exact kind of post years ago and talking up tony wrote, Henry Simms, Hollis Thompson, Furkan Aldemir and others? You called Thompson and Sims Comparable to crowder for the love of god. Just stop with this nonsense. It is like pollution on the board

[RockinRyA]

Minnesota is a poorly constructed team.  They have a lot of offensive chuckers without any real defenders.  Dieng and KAT are a bad mix up front.  Rubio, Lavine, and Wiggins just doesn't work in the backcourt.  They then hired a defensive oriented coach, that isn't a great offensive coach, to coach a bunch of great offensive players that are terrible to poor defenders.  It is just a bad mix of players/coaching in Minnesota. 

The Sixers are put together much better assuming they pick up a guard in the draft.  They will have a two way anchor at center (Embiid), a solid stretch 4 (Saric), a 3 and D veteran SF (Covington), and two rookies in the backcourt (one the #1 pick in the draft (Simmons), and the other at least a top 7 pick (whomever they land this summer)).  Plus they will have some quality vets on the bench in Henderson, Bayless, Rodriguez, with some other young guys that will continue to grow in Okafor, Anderson, Stauskas, McConnell, and Holmes.  That also doesn't account for the possibility of getting the Lakers pick and their immense cap space from which they could add talent. 

And to be fair, I said if Simmons lives up to the hype (and called it a big if), they would be one of the better teams in the NBA in 3 years.  Very good chance he doesn't live up to the hype.

Do you learn nothing from doing this exact kind of post years ago and talking up tony wrote, Henry Simms, Hollis Thompson, Furkan Aldemir and others? You called Thompson and Sims Comparable to crowder for the love of god. Just stop with this nonsense. It is like pollution on the board

[EDITED]

No insulting other posters, please.  - Dons

[Moranis]

Minnesota is a poorly constructed team.  They have a lot of offensive chuckers without any real defenders.  Dieng and KAT are a bad mix up front.  Rubio, Lavine, and Wiggins just doesn't work in the backcourt.  They then hired a defensive oriented coach, that isn't a great offensive coach, to coach a bunch of great offensive players that are terrible to poor defenders.  It is just a bad mix of players/coaching in Minnesota. 

The Sixers are put together much better assuming they pick up a guard in the draft.  They will have a two way anchor at center (Embiid), a solid stretch 4 (Saric), a 3 and D veteran SF (Covington), and two rookies in the backcourt (one the #1 pick in the draft (Simmons), and the other at least a top 7 pick (whomever they land this summer)).  Plus they will have some quality vets on the bench in Henderson, Bayless, Rodriguez, with some other young guys that will continue to grow in Okafor, Anderson, Stauskas, McConnell, and Holmes.  That also doesn't account for the possibility of getting the Lakers pick and their immense cap space from which they could add talent. 

And to be fair, I said if Simmons lives up to the hype (and called it a big if), they would be one of the better teams in the NBA in 3 years.  Very good chance he doesn't live up to the hype.

Do you learn nothing from doing this exact kind of post years ago and talking up tony wrote, Henry Simms, Hollis Thompson, Furkan Aldemir and others? You called Thompson and Sims Comparable to crowder for the love of god. Just stop with this nonsense. It is like pollution on the board

Instead of stalking me, why don't you actually post something constructive? Might be more useful then your constant drivel.

[celticsclay]

Minnesota is a poorly constructed team.  They have a lot of offensive chuckers without any real defenders.  Dieng and KAT are a bad mix up front.  Rubio, Lavine, and Wiggins just doesn't work in the backcourt.  They then hired a defensive oriented coach, that isn't a great offensive coach, to coach a bunch of great offensive players that are terrible to poor defenders.  It is just a bad mix of players/coaching in Minnesota. 

The Sixers are put together much better assuming they pick up a guard in the draft.  They will have a two way anchor at center (Embiid), a solid stretch 4 (Saric), a 3 and D veteran SF (Covington), and two rookies in the backcourt (one the #1 pick in the draft (Simmons), and the other at least a top 7 pick (whomever they land this summer)).  Plus they will have some quality vets on the bench in Henderson, Bayless, Rodriguez, with some other young guys that will continue to grow in Okafor, Anderson, Stauskas, McConnell, and Holmes.  That also doesn't account for the possibility of getting the Lakers pick and their immense cap space from which they could add talent. 

And to be fair, I said if Simmons lives up to the hype (and called it a big if), they would be one of the better teams in the NBA in 3 years.  Very good chance he doesn't live up to the hype.

Do you learn nothing from doing this exact kind of post years ago and talking up tony wrote, Henry Simms, Hollis Thompson, Furkan Aldemir and others? You called Thompson and Sims Comparable to crowder for the love of god. Just stop with this nonsense. It is like pollution on the board

Instead of stalking me, why don't you actually post something constructive? Might be more useful then your constant drivel.

How is this stalking you? You forced the board to look at 5 pages of you arguing how Henry Sims, Tony Wroten, Hollis Thompson etc were as good as Jae Crowder going so far to argue that a player like Hollis Thompson would get 20 minutes of playing time a game on last year's historic warriors team. Here we are a year later and you are arguing again how they have such a bright future and again mentioning marginal 76ers players like Justin Anderson, Rodriguez and Nick Stauskas that are extreme fringe NBA players (there is not a single 76ers fan I have seen that wants Rodriguez back). I may be a bit more aggressive calling you out on some of this stuff, but believe me the nonsense does not go unnoticed by many many people.

You are on a Celtics board and doing an ongoing routine of other teams trash (Philly and Cleveland) is always better than the Celtics treasure is a tiresome routine. I will continue to call you out on this and point out your ridiculous past posts as long as you continue to make them. I am honestly a bit shocked you are doing this Philly role player pump up after that debacle of an argument you put together previously for their last round of role players.

I truly wish you would you would look at the Celtics team with the same rose goggles you have looked at the 76ers the last 3 seasons. It would make your posts a lot more enjoyable.

[Moranis]

Minnesota is a poorly constructed team.  They have a lot of offensive chuckers without any real defenders.  Dieng and KAT are a bad mix up front.  Rubio, Lavine, and Wiggins just doesn't work in the backcourt.  They then hired a defensive oriented coach, that isn't a great offensive coach, to coach a bunch of great offensive players that are terrible to poor defenders.  It is just a bad mix of players/coaching in Minnesota. 

The Sixers are put together much better assuming they pick up a guard in the draft.  They will have a two way anchor at center (Embiid), a solid stretch 4 (Saric), a 3 and D veteran SF (Covington), and two rookies in the backcourt (one the #1 pick in the draft (Simmons), and the other at least a top 7 pick (whomever they land this summer)).  Plus they will have some quality vets on the bench in Henderson, Bayless, Rodriguez, with some other young guys that will continue to grow in Okafor, Anderson, Stauskas, McConnell, and Holmes.  That also doesn't account for the possibility of getting the Lakers pick and their immense cap space from which they could add talent. 

And to be fair, I said if Simmons lives up to the hype (and called it a big if), they would be one of the better teams in the NBA in 3 years.  Very good chance he doesn't live up to the hype.

Do you learn nothing from doing this exact kind of post years ago and talking up tony wrote, Henry Simms, Hollis Thompson, Furkan Aldemir and others? You called Thompson and Sims Comparable to crowder for the love of god. Just stop with this nonsense. It is like pollution on the board

Instead of stalking me, why don't you actually post something constructive? Might be more useful then your constant drivel.

How is this stalking you? You forced the board to look at 5 pages of you arguing how Henry Sims, Tony Wroten, Hollis Thompson etc were as good as Jae Crowder going so far to argue that a player like Hollis Thompson would get 20 minutes of playing time a game on last year's historic warriors team. Here we are a year later and you are arguing again how they have such a bright future and again mentioning marginal 76ers players like Justin Anderson, Rodriguez and Nick Stauskas that are extreme fringe NBA players (there is not a single 76ers fan I have seen that wants Rodriguez back). I may be a bit more aggressive calling you out on some of this stuff, but believe me the nonsense does not go unnoticed by many many people.

You are on a Celtics board and doing an ongoing routine of other teams trash (Philly and Cleveland) is always better than the Celtics treasure is a tiresome routine. I will continue to call you out on this and point out your ridiculous past posts as long as you continue to make them. I am honestly a bit shocked you are doing this Philly role player pump up after that debacle of an argument you put together previously for their last round of role players.

I truly wish you would you would look at the Celtics team with the same rose goggles you have looked at the 76ers the last 3 seasons. It would make your posts a lot more enjoyable.

except none of that is true.  hence my stalking comment. 

For example, here is my post on Thompson and the Warriors from a year and a half ago.  Apparently, every time you tell the story you add mpg to Thompson.   

Thompson is an excellent 3 point shooter.  That is all he does, but if you put him on a team like Golden State he would be shooting 50% from three and playing like 10 minutes a game.  His shooting is that good.   That is his role.  Philly hasn't had any one else and he is playing way more minutes than he should in a role he shouldn't be.  Thompson will be in the league for years though.  He has a unique skill set that teams love to have on their bench.  Stauskas has finally moved Thompson to the bench, but Stauskas is still far too young to contribute much of anything to winning.  Mind you Stauskas was a top 10 pick 2 drafts ago.  He clearly has talent. 

Covington is a solid player.  Good defender and ok and varied offensive game.  He too is better suited to a bench role, the Sixers just don't have anyone else to start.  Wroten and Marshall who have yet to play are both fairly recent 1st round picks.  Landry has been in the league awhile.  Once the Sixers get healthy, they will be bad, they just won't be epically bad.  They need a real wing scorer (Saric would have helped immensely) and could use a true PG (MCW was not that and neither is Wroten).

 

I did compare Sims to Zeller (never to Crowder), and frankly if their roles were reversed, Sims might still be in the league and Zeller might be out of it because they were both nothing more than bench players (best case was also 3rd big, more realistically 4th or 5th big).  Sometimes where you end up matters.  I also compared Thompson to Crowder in the general sense of them being quality bench players.  Crowder was always the better defender, but he has really developed the outside shot and is obviously the better player today (though I still think he best suited as a 3 and D guy off the bench).  That said, Thompson has started 7 of the last 8 Pelicans games, so it isn't like he some terrible player that is destined to be out of the league (as you constantly said).     

[celticsclay]

I will add in your statements here. You have a long history of talking up the 76ers role players. It is difficult to find all of the threads because you have done it so many times. I am sure you did say different things at different times. The fact you have talked up a number of players that are out of the league and are pointing to a guy the 76ers cut and was on waivers for 2 months as proof he is ok (thompson) is crazy enough. I will add your greatest hits here when I have time. It is not pretty your history of talking about 76ers role players:

Moranis 2014: "Philadelphia is probably better positioned to win a title in the next 5 years than Boston is.  Philadelphia has the reigning rookie of the year, a top contender for rookie of the year this year in Noel, a top contender for rookie of the year next year in Embiid, a top contender for rookie of the year two years from now in Saric, some solid other young players like Wroten and Moultrie,

Analysis: Notable as an another example of talking of 76ers role players who are now out of the league (moultrie?), and being high on Noel who was recently traded for a bag of balls. Granted, I am high on Noel too but this is clear example of Moranis moving the goal posts over time to retain the everything is good in Philly narrative. With near being 3 seasons later and Noel gone, Simmons not having played and Embiid doubtful to string together full season them winning a championship in the next few years seems highly improbable.

Moranis 2015 They only won 17 games.  I really think 34 is reasonable for them as Noel now is a full season removed from the injury (and the second year is always better than the first) and I do really like Okafor.  He was the most NBA ready of all players in the draft.  I expect Aldemir to make a big jump with a full season.  Thompson is still an incredible shooter.  Grant, Covington, Canaan, and Sampson should all improve.  Wroten is back.  They added Staukas.  I like Wallace and Landry for leadership potential.

It will all come down to Noel and Okafor, obviously, but I really think they are going to surprise a lot of people.

Analysis: Oh boy here Moranis is projecting the 76ers to win 34 games in 2015-2016 citing improvements from Canaan, Jakaar Sampson, a big jump from Furkan Aldemir, the incredible shooting of Hollis Thompson and the development of Noel and Okafor along with the return of Tony Wroten.

What happened? Aldemir, Sampson and Thompson were all eventually waived by the 76ers. The "return of Wroten" led to him also getting cut from the team, briefly being signed by the Knicks and then cut again. The team would go on to nearly break the all-time record for futility in the league with a 10-72 record a very far cry from the surprising 34 wins you projected.

Moranis Summer 2015  His contract with Philly is 3 million a year.  You don't just sign 2nd round picks to that sort of contract unless they are worth it.  Aldemir should be a very strong NBA player.  Probably not all star level, but certainly will be at worst a quality bench player for a decade barring injury.

Analysis Pretty quick to call a guy a very strong NBA player after a few summer league games and saying he got 3 million dollars for a reason. He obviously does not appear likely to have a decade long career in the NBA because he couldn't make it.

Moranis December 2015 The Sixers will look a lot better when Wroten and Marshall are back at PG and if they get everyone playing at the same time.  Stauskas missed time, Covington has missed a lot time, Noel has missed time.  Landry (one of the vets) is out till January. Once they get everyone back and playing they won't be good, but they won't be terrible either. 

Wroten, Marshall, Canaan
Stauskas, Thompson
Covington, Sampson
Noel, Landy, Grant
Okafor, Noel

Certainly not a good team, but that team isn't as bad as people think either.  It also isn't a terribly constructed team as it has interior scoring (Okafor) and interio defense (Noel), it has a solid wing defender (Covington), excellent shooters (Stauskas, Thompson, Canaan), and ok distributors (Wroten, Marshall, Canaan).

Analysis: The 76ers never got better, the lineup discussed by Moranis is now mostly out of the league.

Moranis 2015: "There isn't a team in the league wouldn't sign Covington, Stauskas, Wroten, Thompson, and Grant to their roster immediately if they were available (at least at vet minimum type contracts).  Marshall had more suitors than just Philly last summer. 

People love to talk in hyperbole with the Sixers.  It is the new fun thing to do, but it is just silly talk."

Analysis: People were being hyperbolic when they questioned how good these players were.
Yet Wroten has not played in the NBA in two years, Thompson was just on waivers for 2 months after the 76ers cut him and Marshal has been out of the league for years also. So it clearly was not just "silly talk."

Stauskas has rebounded a bit this year, but was one of the last players to make their roster this year. This isn't even the most ridiculous one, but clearly a very high opinion of guys who are half out of the league.

Still finding the quote where you said Crowder and Sims were interchangable. I know you said it cause I quote it somewhere once.

[Eddie20]

Clay, great job in making Moranis accountable for some of his many incorrect predictions.

Moranis, since your track record is so poor why don't you stop making such asinine predictions about Philly as it's obvious you aren't the most impartial, or knowledgable for that matter, source around?

[tazzmaniac]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-the-76ers-should-be-thanking-sam-hinkie-145925655.html

Dude is delusional. Even if Embiid comes back, giant if, this team is 5-6 years away from possibly contending. Possibly. And who knows which of the youth they lose due to contract restraints by that time.

If, and that is a big if, Simmons is as good as advertised, they get anything from Embiid, and they pick up at least a respectable player in the draft this year (with the possibility of two such players), plus all of the other assets and cap space they have, the Sixers will be a playoff team next year and should be one of the better teams in the league in no more than 3 years.  Again, that is obviously contingent on Simmons living up to the potential and them not messing up the draft this summer.

yes, they should make the playoffs if what you write is accurate. but one of the better teams in the nba? i dont know. i look at minnesota, okc, and maybe a few other teams that draft 2-3 stars, very talented young players that everyone thinks will be a star. for okc it worked out. for minnesota, not so much. wiggins...compare the hype to the reality. porter, it took 4 years to become a good nba player. and how long did it take billups?

then we have players that dont pan out of course.

being one of the better teams is more than putting talent together. it is also making sure the personalities mesh, the talents match, and they are surrounded with the right role players.

so, i will say what i say so often, let's wait and see.

The idea that they can just waltz into the playoffs with Embiid/Simmons/Monk or whatever is absurd.  Even if Embiid Is healthy all season, a second-year player flanked by 2~3 rookies is not going to make the playoffs, regardless of how much potential they have. Just look at Minnesota.

Unless they throw money at veterans or swing a trade, best case scenario Philly is still making the playoffs for the first time in 2018/19 and maybe becoming a contender by the 2020s.  That will mark nearly a decade of misery. They better be winning a title after that.

You don't need to be a good team to make the playoffs.  In the East, the 6th through 8th spots are .500 teams.  In the West, the 8th spot is well below .500. 

The Sixers won't waltz into the playoffs but top 5 defensive teams generally make the playoffs.  If Embiid is healthy most of the season, they have a good chance of being a top 5 defensive team.  Covington will be in his 4th season.  With his European experience, Saric is not a typical rookie. They'll have some veterans like they have this season.   If Butler goes on the market, I could see the Sixers going after him.  I could see them going after Philly boys, Lowry or Waiters, in free agency.

1. Winning 41 games is not trivially easy. You need to be pretty decent to get there.
2. The Sixers are not going to be a top-5 defensive team no matter how good Embiid is when they're starting Simmons and another rookie. That's not how the NBA works.

It may not even take 41 wins.  Last season, the 8th place team had 44 wins but the previous 3 seasons the 8th place teams only had 38 wins. 

With Embiid on the court, the Sixers had a 99.1 defense rating better than the league best Spurs.  He's a real difference maker.  In addition, Covington is also a very good defender.  How much the rookie they draft contributes will depend on who they draft.  If they get Jackson, he should be a significant positive defensively.  Even Simmons probably won't hurt them because he'll be taking playing time from relatively poor defenders. 

Brett Brown is a defensive oriented coach.  A couple years ago, he turned MCW, Noel and a bunch of d-leaguers into a top 12 defense.  If Embiid can stay healthy next season, they should be very good defensively. 

[Moranis]

OMG players get hurt and their careers end because they can't recover. Injuries affect everything but my analysis from a couple of seasons ago about young guys most of whom got hurt is the gold standard.  Of course all of the posts where I discussed Covington, Sakic, etc. are completely ignored.  You know guys that didn't get hurt and actually performed. Hmm. I wonder why that is. Also not in there are all of you own posts where you criticize but we're wrong.  I wonder why that is.  Totally not hypocritical at all and totally not a stalker move. Frankly I have no idea why you haven't been banned as that is all against site rules.

[tankcity!]

OMG players get hurt and their careers end because they can't recover. Injuries affect everything but my analysis from a couple of seasons ago about young guys most of whom got hurt is the gold standard.  Of course all of the posts where I discussed Covington, Sakic, etc. are completely ignored.  You know guys that didn't get hurt and actually performed. Hmm. I wonder why that is. Also not in there are all of you own posts where you criticize but we're wrong.  I wonder why that is.  Totally not hypocritical at all and totally not a stalker move. Frankly I have no idea why you haven't been banned as that is all against site rules.

Wow you sound like a baby lol. Why are you asking for people to get banned? Anyways, you were wrong about Noel and Okafor. The only guy who is injured is Embiid. I think everyone here is still high on Simmons so no idea what you're even saying. Clay just pointed out how off base you were on alot of Philly Items. Saric was good, but I'm not surprised. I wanted him over Smart during the draft. The main point is that you said a lot of aggregious things and then never owned up to being wrong. It's all good though. There is no reason for us Celtics fans to gloat. We should take the high road. Enjoy rooting for Philly

[Somebody]

OMG players get hurt and their careers end because they can't recover. Injuries affect everything but my analysis from a couple of seasons ago about young guys most of whom got hurt is the gold standard.  Of course all of the posts where I discussed Covington, Sakic, etc. are completely ignored.  You know guys that didn't get hurt and actually performed. Hmm. I wonder why that is. Also not in there are all of you own posts where you criticize but we're wrong.  I wonder why that is.  Totally not hypocritical at all and totally not a stalker move. Frankly I have no idea why you haven't been banned as that is all against site rules.

>this is the reaction when a pessimist gets exposed

[moiso]

If someone knows there will always be backlash against certain things he posts, that is the poster's choice and he should either deal with the consequences or stop making the posts.  It's that simple.  And after several instances you should expect the same posters to argue the points.  For example I came to realize a long time ago that any time I said something negative about Cousins, Roy Hobbs would be there to argue two seconds later.  It is what it is.

[colincb]

In news other than the Hinkiephiles were abysmylly wrong in addition to being PITAs:

PORTLAND, Ore. - 76ers center Jahlil Okafor has experienced right knee soreness throughout the season. One would assume that the second-year player would consider sitting the rest of the campaign to rest his knee. Okafor said during Thursday's shootaround that sitting out has never been an option.

"We just rest and do treatment whenever we think is necessary,"  he said, "and just go from there."

Okafor returned to action in Thursday night's game against the Portland Trail Blazers at the Moda Center after missing the last two games because of the soreness. He said icing the knee and strengthening his quadriceps are part of the treatment he's receiving along with a lot of compression on the knee.

But Okafor has been dealing with knee soreness since having surgery on March 22, 2016, to repair the meniscus in the knee. The injury cost the NBA all-rookie selection the final 23 games of last season.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20170310_Okafor_returns_to_action_for_Sixers.html

[celticsclay]

OMG players get hurt and their careers end because they can't recover. Injuries affect everything but my analysis from a couple of seasons ago about young guys most of whom got hurt is the gold standard.  Of course all of the posts where I discussed Covington, Sakic, etc. are completely ignored.  You know guys that didn't get hurt and actually performed. Hmm. I wonder why that is. Also not in there are all of you own posts where you criticize but we're wrong.  I wonder why that is.  Totally not hypocritical at all and totally not a stalker move. Frankly I have no idea why you haven't been banned as that is all against site rules.

OMG players get hurt and their careers end because they can't recover. Injuries affect everything but my analysis from a couple of seasons ago about young guys most of whom got hurt is the gold standard.  Of course all of the posts where I discussed Covington, Sakic, etc. are completely ignored.  You know guys that didn't get hurt and actually performed. Hmm. I wonder why that is. Also not in there are all of you own posts where you criticize but we're wrong.  I wonder why that is.  Totally not hypocritical at all and totally not a stalker move. Frankly I have no idea why you haven't been banned as that is all against site rules.

Moranis don't insult people's intelligence here. Your track record clearly speaks for itself. You have spoken out highly of Tony Wroten, Furkin Aldemir, Isiah Canaan, Moultrie, Hollis Thompson, Henry Sims, Kendall Marhsall, Jakaar Sampson and some guy named Wallace as a vet presence I am not even sure who are you referring to (this is all documented above). The only things those players had in common is they put on that 76ers jersey and all of a sudden you were incredibly high on them. For 2015-2016 you were projecting they would be the surprise of the league and win 37 games (documented). You double down a month into the season saying how much better they would get. They won 10 games. ALL YEAR.

If you were some super optimistic post about the Celtics young players calling Allen Ray, Jr Bremer, Brandon Hunter, Jordan Mickey, Bentil, James Young, RJ Hunter great young prospects year after year that would be one thing. However, if anything you do the opposite. The jig is up on this and every one that reads this board regularly can see it.

I personally think it is insulting for you put the every day readers of this board through another year or years of you talking up any player that gets drafted, signs a camp invite or signs a 10 day contract with a division rival of ours.

I leave you with a simple request that I have given you before. Please give just 10% of the benefit of the doubt you have given to the 76ers every year for the last half decade to the Boston Celtics. I am not asking you to be a homer. There are plenty of people with pessimistic views of the Celtics that do not grind my gears (or other reader's gears like this). I think if you could at least make an effort to show some kind of consistency like that it would go a really long way.

[Moranis]

How is consistently calling guys role players speaking highly of them?