All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[celticsclay]

The rise and fall of Okafor:

http://phillysportsnetwork.com/2017/01/13/okafor/

Apparently, they can't even get a late first round pick for him now.

That's obviously not true.

How is it obviously not true. This is what people have been saying for a long time (including 76ers fans) and you refuse to accept it.

The 76ers fans commenting that don't genuinely believe it.  And neither do you.   It's like someone here frustrated that Jaylen Brown doesn't get minutes and saying "he's probably not even worth a 2nd rounder at this point".

Okafor was was selected 1st-Team All-Rookie and his Per minute numbers this season actually show improvement.  If he could be had for a late 1st rounder, a team like Boston would already have him.  He's on the second year of a rookie contract and it's highly, highly improbable that the guy selected with the late 1st will be anywhere near the quality of prospect as Okafor.

Ya'll are just being hyperbolic.

Does per minute mean much though...when you are playing less?

His per 100 possessions show a downward trend...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html


I would give up a non-top10 projected pick...but that's because I'm intrigued...not because I'm convinced he'd live up to being a top 3 pick.

What's interesting is that his averages this season of 10.7 points, 4.8 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 1.1 blocks in 22.4mpg (11.29EFF) statistically put him slightly ahead of Malcolm Brogdon this season (11.00 EFF).  As we all know, 24 year old Malcolm Brogdon is the darling of the 2016 draft and would be frontrunner for Rookie of the Year if it weren't for 2014 draftees Embiid and Saric.   

So in other words, Jahlil Okafor is arguably outperforming every single 2016 draftee this season.  That lends credibility to the draftniks suggestion that Okafor was a better prospect than anyone available at #3 this year.  If these were Okafor's rookie numbers, he'd be just a hair above Malcolm Brogdon for Rookie of the Year frontrunner despite the fact 21 year old Okafor literally 3 years younger than Brogdon.   Go figure.

Now of course, the DNP's hurt Okafor's hypothetical bid for 2016-17 Rookie of the Year, but there's obviously some extraordinary circumstances at play there.  He's currently playing behind the transcendent Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel - a center that Steve Kyler calls one of the two "stars" on the team.  Philly is obviously trying to experiment right now with different rotations.

why are you like this?

It's a response to the idea that Philly couldn't get a late 1st for Okafor.  That's clearly not true.  He's outperforming every 2016 draftee this season.

I was clearly referring to the bolded text.

Nerlens Noel - a center that Steve Kyler calls one of the two "stars" on the team.

why did you write that in your post?

Because some people here seem to think very highly of Kyler's opinion and that's his most recent comments on this evolving situation:  https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/819528715772329984

Speaking of "sell high moments', I interpreted Kyler's comments as follows...

You know how people here are willing to trade Smart + Jaylen + Both Brooklyn 1sts for Cousins?  Well given DeMarcus' reputation as a loose cannon and his upcoming 200 million dollar contract, you have to figure Joel Embiid has more trade value.   I may be wrong, but I think Kyler might have been suggesting that Philly should use this sell high moment to move Embiid for a giant package and build around Simmons and Noel.   It actually might not be a bad idea if you think Embiid's either going to regress or re-injure himself.  The Sixers have a sell high moment here.  Nobody would expect it.   Two questions.  #1 - What's your best offer for Embiid.  #2 - Should Philly surprise everyone by taking it?

Lol more classic LarBrd33 logic - ignore half a dozen tweets to focus on one that fits his narrative.

Seriously, this trolling or just blatant bias/terrible logic, whatever it is, is starting to get a bit ridiculous. You seriously can't ignore some of his tweets and take others out of context to try and argue your point. That's just juvenile.

EDIT: For the third time in the last couple of days, I will post the proper context for people so that you don't deceive them with your flawed logic.

I hope Ainge is calling the Sixers for Noel.

For reals. He'd help us so, so much, and we certainly need it with how terrible we've been defensively and on the boards.

I think we can really challenge Toronto in the playoffs with a Noel upgrade.

I'm sure teams including Boston have asked about Noel, but until someone makes a worthwhile offer, there's no incentive for Philly to trade him.

Sure, if you ignore reality and pretty much only listen to fans on LibertyBallers.

It's widely reported that Noel does not want to stay there outside of the max, which they're certainly not going to give to a backup player behind Embiid, because he's not a backup big and doesn't want to be one. And even if they would be willing to do something that stupid, which they aren't, mind you, it's clear that that's not a move that good organizations make.

Traditionally, I can't say anything on this forum without someone labeling it trolling.  Whether it's me saying Paul pierce isn't as good as LeBron, me saying Rondo isn't as good as Chris Paul, me saying Embiid and Jabari Parker are worth more than our 2016 Brooklyn pick, me saying it's in the best interest for the Celtics to tank in 2013-14, etc.  The word doesn't apply.  Half the time, people just genuinely don't understand my point of view until years later.   The other half of the time, a couple people can't tell when I'm very blatantly being tongue-in-cheek.   

What are we even talking about at this point? 

That Philly can't get a late 1st for Okafor?  THat's obviously false.

That Okafor has been terrible?  Statistically he's outperforming every single player drafted in 2016 this season - so there's that.

That Noel hates his situation and wants to be traded?   As of today he says he says he is "definitely satisfied" with his role and perhaps the happiest he's ever been in Philly:  http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20170113_Noel__definitely_satisfied__with_role_on_Sixers.html

That Steve Kyler thinks Noel and Simmons are the only two untradeable stars on Philly?   Take that up with Steve Kyler.  That's literally what he said.  Don't quote some rando's twitter as the word of god and then scoff when someone takes that same rando's twitter as the word of god.

That the Sixers missed their sell-high moment?   Truly debatable.   Noel's trade value presumably bottomed out a few weeks ago and has steadily increased.  If he proves capable of sharing the court with Embiid, proves that his newfound mid-range shot isn't a fluke, and if Philly keeps being relatively successful with him in the lineup - it's safe to say they will have a new "sell high" opportunity with the budding young center.    As for Okafor, he's down right now but he's still a 21 year old center who teams presumably think about as highly of as they did a year ago.  Whether or not they are willing to give up anything substantial and whether or not Philly is willing to take pennies on the dollar for a quality big man prospect with multiple years left on his rookie contract - that's up in the air right now.

This isn't obvious to me or a lot of a other people

It really should be.  Unless you genuinely think the kid is a cancer who makes a basketball team worse and never has hope of improving, there's just no way that's true.  He's a 21 year old who was selected 1st Team All Rookie last year.  You're talking about him not being worth an RJ Hunter level draft pick.   That makes no sense. 

If Okafor could be had for a late 1st, Boston would have him already.

Would you give up a lottery or mid first for MCW?
Would you give one up for Trey Burke?
Jordan Clarkson?
Mirotic?

Heck Mason Plumlee WAS traded for a late first a year after being named to the all-rookie first team!

These are all guys that were named all-rookie first team in the last few drafts and I highly doubt anyone would give up more than a late round first for any of them. With the exception of Mirotic all of them are still young.

You are on the wrong side of this.

I'm not sure how you are saying I am moving the goal posts (of if you are saying lb will) he said okafor couldn't get traded for a late and implied it was partly because he was all rookie first team. I pointed out there are many players that have had that value very recently after making all rookie first team and plumlee, a fellow big was actually just traded for exactly that shortly after winning the award. Found it fascinating lb just ignored it

Because you went from "the Sixers couldn't get a late 1st for Okafor" to "here are these other lesser rookies who would get a late 1st" and thought that justified your point.

If you truly think that no team in the NBA would give up a 1st for Okafor, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But it's about as realistic as saying that no one would give more than a mid 1st for Lebron.

Now I need a shower. I feel icky after defending LarBrd, even if just in this very small way (and no way am I defending many of his other absurd statements in this thread but this one is the one that got him really started).

yea okafor is on par with Lebron. I guess you just proved all I need to know. Good chat

Ps please watch okafor cause you clearly don't. He is awful

Please learn something about the NBA because clearly you know nothing Jon Snow.

See how easy that is? And you thought you were being witty.

I highly doubt you have watched much okafor, especially this year. There is a reason all the 76ers fans or roughly 80% hate him and call him a stealth tank. If you say you have watched a bunch of okafor I'll believe you, but I will be surprised. You Lebron comment was ridiculous and deserved to met with a lot of derision cause it was condescending and uncalled for. I could show you ten regular liberty ballers posters out of their 20 more regular posters that have suggested trading okafor for a late first or worse. It is an opinion a lot of people hold whether you want to believe it or not. Nobody has ever suggested trading Lebron for a mid first so that is just dumb

[ThePaintedArea]

I highly doubt you have watched much okafor, especially this year.

The question is: will ANYONE be watching him for the rest of the season? Another DNP-CD tonight for Jahlil, and another victory for Philadelphia.

It looks as though Nerlens has solidified his spot in the rotation, and that Okafor has lost his. But it's a long season, so it's too early to be giving up on him.

Is he worth a first-round pick?  They'd be very happy to get that right now - but what team would want him?

[tazzmaniac]

I highly doubt you have watched much okafor, especially this year.

The question is: will ANYONE be watching him for the rest of the season? Another DNP-CD tonight for Jahlil, and another victory for Philadelphia.

It looks as though Nerlens has solidified his spot in the rotation, and that Okafor has lost his. But it's a long season, so it's too early to be giving up on him.

Is he worth a first-round pick?  They'd be very happy to get that right now - but what team would want him?

Okafor will play tomorrow since Embiid sits out B2B.  The Sixers have 4 B2Bs this month.  As for Nerlens, he had the worst +/- at -14.  Embiid was at +23.  I'm interested in seeing how much better their big men look playing with Ben Simmons. 

[Granath]

The rise and fall of Okafor:

http://phillysportsnetwork.com/2017/01/13/okafor/

Apparently, they can't even get a late first round pick for him now.

That's obviously not true.

How is it obviously not true. This is what people have been saying for a long time (including 76ers fans) and you refuse to accept it.

The 76ers fans commenting that don't genuinely believe it.  And neither do you.   It's like someone here frustrated that Jaylen Brown doesn't get minutes and saying "he's probably not even worth a 2nd rounder at this point".

Okafor was was selected 1st-Team All-Rookie and his Per minute numbers this season actually show improvement.  If he could be had for a late 1st rounder, a team like Boston would already have him.  He's on the second year of a rookie contract and it's highly, highly improbable that the guy selected with the late 1st will be anywhere near the quality of prospect as Okafor.

Ya'll are just being hyperbolic.

Does per minute mean much though...when you are playing less?

His per 100 possessions show a downward trend...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html


I would give up a non-top10 projected pick...but that's because I'm intrigued...not because I'm convinced he'd live up to being a top 3 pick.

What's interesting is that his averages this season of 10.7 points, 4.8 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 1.1 blocks in 22.4mpg (11.29EFF) statistically put him slightly ahead of Malcolm Brogdon this season (11.00 EFF).  As we all know, 24 year old Malcolm Brogdon is the darling of the 2016 draft and would be frontrunner for Rookie of the Year if it weren't for 2014 draftees Embiid and Saric.   

So in other words, Jahlil Okafor is arguably outperforming every single 2016 draftee this season.  That lends credibility to the draftniks suggestion that Okafor was a better prospect than anyone available at #3 this year.  If these were Okafor's rookie numbers, he'd be just a hair above Malcolm Brogdon for Rookie of the Year frontrunner despite the fact 21 year old Okafor literally 3 years younger than Brogdon.   Go figure.

Now of course, the DNP's hurt Okafor's hypothetical bid for 2016-17 Rookie of the Year, but there's obviously some extraordinary circumstances at play there.  He's currently playing behind the transcendent Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel - a center that Steve Kyler calls one of the two "stars" on the team.  Philly is obviously trying to experiment right now with different rotations.

why are you like this?

It's a response to the idea that Philly couldn't get a late 1st for Okafor.  That's clearly not true.  He's outperforming every 2016 draftee this season.

I was clearly referring to the bolded text.

Nerlens Noel - a center that Steve Kyler calls one of the two "stars" on the team.

why did you write that in your post?

Because some people here seem to think very highly of Kyler's opinion and that's his most recent comments on this evolving situation:  https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/819528715772329984

Speaking of "sell high moments', I interpreted Kyler's comments as follows...

You know how people here are willing to trade Smart + Jaylen + Both Brooklyn 1sts for Cousins?  Well given DeMarcus' reputation as a loose cannon and his upcoming 200 million dollar contract, you have to figure Joel Embiid has more trade value.   I may be wrong, but I think Kyler might have been suggesting that Philly should use this sell high moment to move Embiid for a giant package and build around Simmons and Noel.   It actually might not be a bad idea if you think Embiid's either going to regress or re-injure himself.  The Sixers have a sell high moment here.  Nobody would expect it.   Two questions.  #1 - What's your best offer for Embiid.  #2 - Should Philly surprise everyone by taking it?

Lol more classic LarBrd33 logic - ignore half a dozen tweets to focus on one that fits his narrative.

Seriously, this trolling or just blatant bias/terrible logic, whatever it is, is starting to get a bit ridiculous. You seriously can't ignore some of his tweets and take others out of context to try and argue your point. That's just juvenile.

EDIT: For the third time in the last couple of days, I will post the proper context for people so that you don't deceive them with your flawed logic.

I hope Ainge is calling the Sixers for Noel.

For reals. He'd help us so, so much, and we certainly need it with how terrible we've been defensively and on the boards.

I think we can really challenge Toronto in the playoffs with a Noel upgrade.

I'm sure teams including Boston have asked about Noel, but until someone makes a worthwhile offer, there's no incentive for Philly to trade him.

Sure, if you ignore reality and pretty much only listen to fans on LibertyBallers.

It's widely reported that Noel does not want to stay there outside of the max, which they're certainly not going to give to a backup player behind Embiid, because he's not a backup big and doesn't want to be one. And even if they would be willing to do something that stupid, which they aren't, mind you, it's clear that that's not a move that good organizations make.

Traditionally, I can't say anything on this forum without someone labeling it trolling.  Whether it's me saying Paul pierce isn't as good as LeBron, me saying Rondo isn't as good as Chris Paul, me saying Embiid and Jabari Parker are worth more than our 2016 Brooklyn pick, me saying it's in the best interest for the Celtics to tank in 2013-14, etc.  The word doesn't apply.  Half the time, people just genuinely don't understand my point of view until years later.   The other half of the time, a couple people can't tell when I'm very blatantly being tongue-in-cheek.   

What are we even talking about at this point? 

That Philly can't get a late 1st for Okafor?  THat's obviously false.

That Okafor has been terrible?  Statistically he's outperforming every single player drafted in 2016 this season - so there's that.

That Noel hates his situation and wants to be traded?   As of today he says he says he is "definitely satisfied" with his role and perhaps the happiest he's ever been in Philly:  http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20170113_Noel__definitely_satisfied__with_role_on_Sixers.html

That Steve Kyler thinks Noel and Simmons are the only two untradeable stars on Philly?   Take that up with Steve Kyler.  That's literally what he said.  Don't quote some rando's twitter as the word of god and then scoff when someone takes that same rando's twitter as the word of god.

That the Sixers missed their sell-high moment?   Truly debatable.   Noel's trade value presumably bottomed out a few weeks ago and has steadily increased.  If he proves capable of sharing the court with Embiid, proves that his newfound mid-range shot isn't a fluke, and if Philly keeps being relatively successful with him in the lineup - it's safe to say they will have a new "sell high" opportunity with the budding young center.    As for Okafor, he's down right now but he's still a 21 year old center who teams presumably think about as highly of as they did a year ago.  Whether or not they are willing to give up anything substantial and whether or not Philly is willing to take pennies on the dollar for a quality big man prospect with multiple years left on his rookie contract - that's up in the air right now.

This isn't obvious to me or a lot of a other people

It really should be.  Unless you genuinely think the kid is a cancer who makes a basketball team worse and never has hope of improving, there's just no way that's true.  He's a 21 year old who was selected 1st Team All Rookie last year.  You're talking about him not being worth an RJ Hunter level draft pick.   That makes no sense. 

If Okafor could be had for a late 1st, Boston would have him already.

Would you give up a lottery or mid first for MCW?
Would you give one up for Trey Burke?
Jordan Clarkson?
Mirotic?

Heck Mason Plumlee WAS traded for a late first a year after being named to the all-rookie first team!

These are all guys that were named all-rookie first team in the last few drafts and I highly doubt anyone would give up more than a late round first for any of them. With the exception of Mirotic all of them are still young.

You are on the wrong side of this.

I'm not sure how you are saying I am moving the goal posts (of if you are saying lb will) he said okafor couldn't get traded for a late and implied it was partly because he was all rookie first team. I pointed out there are many players that have had that value very recently after making all rookie first team and plumlee, a fellow big was actually just traded for exactly that shortly after winning the award. Found it fascinating lb just ignored it

Because you went from "the Sixers couldn't get a late 1st for Okafor" to "here are these other lesser rookies who would get a late 1st" and thought that justified your point.

If you truly think that no team in the NBA would give up a 1st for Okafor, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But it's about as realistic as saying that no one would give more than a mid 1st for Lebron.

Now I need a shower. I feel icky after defending LarBrd, even if just in this very small way (and no way am I defending many of his other absurd statements in this thread but this one is the one that got him really started).

yea okafor is on par with Lebron. I guess you just proved all I need to know. Good chat

Ps please watch okafor cause you clearly don't. He is awful

Please learn something about the NBA because clearly you know nothing Jon Snow.

See how easy that is? And you thought you were being witty.

I highly doubt you have watched much okafor, especially this year. There is a reason all the 76ers fans or roughly 80% hate him and call him a stealth tank. If you say you have watched a bunch of okafor I'll believe you, but I will be surprised. You Lebron comment was ridiculous and deserved to met with a lot of derision cause it was condescending and uncalled for. I could show you ten regular liberty ballers posters out of their 20 more regular posters that have suggested trading okafor for a late first or worse. It is an opinion a lot of people hold whether you want to believe it or not. Nobody has ever suggested trading Lebron for a mid first so that is just dumb

My Lebron comment was ridiculous. It shows how ridiculous your comments are and that's why you didn't like it. If you want to talk about condescending, junior, then pot meet kettle. You don't get to run your mouth off about how other people must not watch the NBA and then feign that you're wounded about someone throwing the same logic right back in your face.

The simple fact is that if you think the 76ers can't get a first for Okafor then you're entitled to that opinion. But you're also entitled to think the Earth is flat. Neither is true however, no matter how much you want to believe it. NBA GMs know that a 21 year old big man who averaged 17 and 7 a year ago - no matter how bad his advanced stats are (and they mightily sucked) - is worth more than a 2nd round pick.

Just like some people were grossly overvaluing Okafor before the draft (the #3 and Bradley was the consensus which I laughed at back then), now you're undervaluing what his market worth is. Nothing you post is going to change that and every example you've tried to post has only reinforced this fact.

[celticsclay]

The rise and fall of Okafor:

http://phillysportsnetwork.com/2017/01/13/okafor/

Apparently, they can't even get a late first round pick for him now.

That's obviously not true.

How is it obviously not true. This is what people have been saying for a long time (including 76ers fans) and you refuse to accept it.

The 76ers fans commenting that don't genuinely believe it.  And neither do you.   It's like someone here frustrated that Jaylen Brown doesn't get minutes and saying "he's probably not even worth a 2nd rounder at this point".

Okafor was was selected 1st-Team All-Rookie and his Per minute numbers this season actually show improvement.  If he could be had for a late 1st rounder, a team like Boston would already have him.  He's on the second year of a rookie contract and it's highly, highly improbable that the guy selected with the late 1st will be anywhere near the quality of prospect as Okafor.

Ya'll are just being hyperbolic.

Does per minute mean much though...when you are playing less?

His per 100 possessions show a downward trend...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoja01.html


I would give up a non-top10 projected pick...but that's because I'm intrigued...not because I'm convinced he'd live up to being a top 3 pick.

What's interesting is that his averages this season of 10.7 points, 4.8 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 1.1 blocks in 22.4mpg (11.29EFF) statistically put him slightly ahead of Malcolm Brogdon this season (11.00 EFF).  As we all know, 24 year old Malcolm Brogdon is the darling of the 2016 draft and would be frontrunner for Rookie of the Year if it weren't for 2014 draftees Embiid and Saric.   

So in other words, Jahlil Okafor is arguably outperforming every single 2016 draftee this season.  That lends credibility to the draftniks suggestion that Okafor was a better prospect than anyone available at #3 this year.  If these were Okafor's rookie numbers, he'd be just a hair above Malcolm Brogdon for Rookie of the Year frontrunner despite the fact 21 year old Okafor literally 3 years younger than Brogdon.   Go figure.

Now of course, the DNP's hurt Okafor's hypothetical bid for 2016-17 Rookie of the Year, but there's obviously some extraordinary circumstances at play there.  He's currently playing behind the transcendent Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel - a center that Steve Kyler calls one of the two "stars" on the team.  Philly is obviously trying to experiment right now with different rotations.

why are you like this?

It's a response to the idea that Philly couldn't get a late 1st for Okafor.  That's clearly not true.  He's outperforming every 2016 draftee this season.

I was clearly referring to the bolded text.

Nerlens Noel - a center that Steve Kyler calls one of the two "stars" on the team.

why did you write that in your post?

Because some people here seem to think very highly of Kyler's opinion and that's his most recent comments on this evolving situation:  https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/819528715772329984

Speaking of "sell high moments', I interpreted Kyler's comments as follows...

You know how people here are willing to trade Smart + Jaylen + Both Brooklyn 1sts for Cousins?  Well given DeMarcus' reputation as a loose cannon and his upcoming 200 million dollar contract, you have to figure Joel Embiid has more trade value.   I may be wrong, but I think Kyler might have been suggesting that Philly should use this sell high moment to move Embiid for a giant package and build around Simmons and Noel.   It actually might not be a bad idea if you think Embiid's either going to regress or re-injure himself.  The Sixers have a sell high moment here.  Nobody would expect it.   Two questions.  #1 - What's your best offer for Embiid.  #2 - Should Philly surprise everyone by taking it?

Lol more classic LarBrd33 logic - ignore half a dozen tweets to focus on one that fits his narrative.

Seriously, this trolling or just blatant bias/terrible logic, whatever it is, is starting to get a bit ridiculous. You seriously can't ignore some of his tweets and take others out of context to try and argue your point. That's just juvenile.

EDIT: For the third time in the last couple of days, I will post the proper context for people so that you don't deceive them with your flawed logic.

I hope Ainge is calling the Sixers for Noel.

For reals. He'd help us so, so much, and we certainly need it with how terrible we've been defensively and on the boards.

I think we can really challenge Toronto in the playoffs with a Noel upgrade.

I'm sure teams including Boston have asked about Noel, but until someone makes a worthwhile offer, there's no incentive for Philly to trade him.

Sure, if you ignore reality and pretty much only listen to fans on LibertyBallers.

It's widely reported that Noel does not want to stay there outside of the max, which they're certainly not going to give to a backup player behind Embiid, because he's not a backup big and doesn't want to be one. And even if they would be willing to do something that stupid, which they aren't, mind you, it's clear that that's not a move that good organizations make.

Traditionally, I can't say anything on this forum without someone labeling it trolling.  Whether it's me saying Paul pierce isn't as good as LeBron, me saying Rondo isn't as good as Chris Paul, me saying Embiid and Jabari Parker are worth more than our 2016 Brooklyn pick, me saying it's in the best interest for the Celtics to tank in 2013-14, etc.  The word doesn't apply.  Half the time, people just genuinely don't understand my point of view until years later.   The other half of the time, a couple people can't tell when I'm very blatantly being tongue-in-cheek.   

What are we even talking about at this point? 

That Philly can't get a late 1st for Okafor?  THat's obviously false.

That Okafor has been terrible?  Statistically he's outperforming every single player drafted in 2016 this season - so there's that.

That Noel hates his situation and wants to be traded?   As of today he says he says he is "definitely satisfied" with his role and perhaps the happiest he's ever been in Philly:  http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20170113_Noel__definitely_satisfied__with_role_on_Sixers.html

That Steve Kyler thinks Noel and Simmons are the only two untradeable stars on Philly?   Take that up with Steve Kyler.  That's literally what he said.  Don't quote some rando's twitter as the word of god and then scoff when someone takes that same rando's twitter as the word of god.

That the Sixers missed their sell-high moment?   Truly debatable.   Noel's trade value presumably bottomed out a few weeks ago and has steadily increased.  If he proves capable of sharing the court with Embiid, proves that his newfound mid-range shot isn't a fluke, and if Philly keeps being relatively successful with him in the lineup - it's safe to say they will have a new "sell high" opportunity with the budding young center.    As for Okafor, he's down right now but he's still a 21 year old center who teams presumably think about as highly of as they did a year ago.  Whether or not they are willing to give up anything substantial and whether or not Philly is willing to take pennies on the dollar for a quality big man prospect with multiple years left on his rookie contract - that's up in the air right now.

This isn't obvious to me or a lot of a other people

It really should be.  Unless you genuinely think the kid is a cancer who makes a basketball team worse and never has hope of improving, there's just no way that's true.  He's a 21 year old who was selected 1st Team All Rookie last year.  You're talking about him not being worth an RJ Hunter level draft pick.   That makes no sense. 

If Okafor could be had for a late 1st, Boston would have him already.

Would you give up a lottery or mid first for MCW?
Would you give one up for Trey Burke?
Jordan Clarkson?
Mirotic?

Heck Mason Plumlee WAS traded for a late first a year after being named to the all-rookie first team!

These are all guys that were named all-rookie first team in the last few drafts and I highly doubt anyone would give up more than a late round first for any of them. With the exception of Mirotic all of them are still young.

You are on the wrong side of this.

I'm not sure how you are saying I am moving the goal posts (of if you are saying lb will) he said okafor couldn't get traded for a late and implied it was partly because he was all rookie first team. I pointed out there are many players that have had that value very recently after making all rookie first team and plumlee, a fellow big was actually just traded for exactly that shortly after winning the award. Found it fascinating lb just ignored it

Because you went from "the Sixers couldn't get a late 1st for Okafor" to "here are these other lesser rookies who would get a late 1st" and thought that justified your point.

If you truly think that no team in the NBA would give up a 1st for Okafor, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But it's about as realistic as saying that no one would give more than a mid 1st for Lebron.

Now I need a shower. I feel icky after defending LarBrd, even if just in this very small way (and no way am I defending many of his other absurd statements in this thread but this one is the one that got him really started).

yea okafor is on par with Lebron. I guess you just proved all I need to know. Good chat

Ps please watch okafor cause you clearly don't. He is awful

Please learn something about the NBA because clearly you know nothing Jon Snow.

See how easy that is? And you thought you were being witty.

I highly doubt you have watched much okafor, especially this year. There is a reason all the 76ers fans or roughly 80% hate him and call him a stealth tank. If you say you have watched a bunch of okafor I'll believe you, but I will be surprised. You Lebron comment was ridiculous and deserved to met with a lot of derision cause it was condescending and uncalled for. I could show you ten regular liberty ballers posters out of their 20 more regular posters that have suggested trading okafor for a late first or worse. It is an opinion a lot of people hold whether you want to believe it or not. Nobody has ever suggested trading Lebron for a mid first so that is just dumb

My Lebron comment was ridiculous. It shows how ridiculous your comments are and that's why you didn't like it. If you want to talk about condescending, junior, then pot meet kettle. You don't get to run your mouth off about how other people must not watch the NBA and then feign that you're wounded about someone throwing the same logic right back in your face.

The simple fact is that if you think the 76ers can't get a first for Okafor then you're entitled to that opinion. But you're also entitled to think the Earth is flat. Neither is true however, no matter how much you want to believe it. NBA GMs know that a 21 year old big man who averaged 17 and 7 a year ago - no matter how bad his advanced stats are (and they mightily sucked) - is worth more than a 2nd round pick.

Just like some people were grossly overvaluing Okafor before the draft (the #3 and Bradley was the consensus which I laughed at back then), now you're undervaluing what his market worth is. Nothing you post is going to change that and every example you've tried to post has only reinforced this fact.

Honestly man we can just agree to disagree. I do think you are being rude because I have given you multiple examples in this thread that my view on okafor is not unique (including what Ford and pelton have said about him) and your just treating me like idiot that is the equivalent of thinking the world is flat. By the same token, I  apologize for how my question about whether you have watched okafor at all came out and was phrased. Said better, I used to think a lot higher of okafor towards the middle of his rookie year. I was intrigued by him and Noel. Once I started watching a lot more of his games and reviewing breakdowns of his individual and team defense done by a few philly beat writers my opinion of him really started to change. That is what I was getting at with that poorly and condesendly worded question. All that being said in a disagreement that may not get resolved any time soon I think you could at least acknowledge the possibility I may not wrong and stop implying I am an idiot or worse. I have said multiple times if okafor does get traded for a top 10 pick or anything halfway solid I will take my lumps and admit I was wrong.

Also to be clear o don't think I have said they can't get a first. I believe I have said his value is late first (20th or worst)

[MBunge]

Of course Philly could get a 1st doing pick for Okafor.  Lot's of teams would be happy to give up a non-lottery pick for him.  But are any of the teams that wind up in the top 6 of the lottery this year going to trade that pick for Okafor?  No.  For Noel?  No.

And that's only going to get worse because despite the blithely confident predictions from some that there would be enough minutes to go around, Philly has already resorted to just sitting one of their three centers and that's without Simmons even playing.

Mike

[tankcity!]

This thread was entertaining. To add my two cents, okafor could score a non lottery first round pick. If someone offered philly a 2nd round pick they would laugh and hang up.

[bogg]

Considering Noel was injured for the first couple months of the season and still presumably on a bit of a minute restriction while he gets healthy... they haven't really gotten a look at him until recently.   They are 5-1 in games Embiid plays and Noel gets at least 11 minutes.   Probably fair to keep exploring that before trading someone.

What if that Noel and Embiid combo actually works?  It would have been pretty stupid if they had traded Noel over the Summer without experimenting with it.

The problem with the Noel and Embiid combo at center is that it's going to get expensive quick. Noel may not get a max contract, but he'll get a big offer sheet from somebody this summer and Embiid isn't a real rookie - he's in the third year of his rookie deal and will be getting a max extension this summer. Philly's certainly welcome to commit $50+ million a year to the center position if they want, but it's an inefficient use of resources. Long-term they're better off focusing on spending that money on players that compliment Embiid and Simmons instead of throwing good money after bad to avoid the optics of taking an L on a former top-10 pick.

[MBunge]

And, of course, it's hilarious to see people going gaga over the Sixers because they managed to win three games in a row against the putrid Nets, slumping Knicks and meh Hornets, and that was three games in six days and they needed a last second shot to do it.

Mike

[bogg]

And, of course, it's hilarious to see people going gaga over the Sixers because they managed to win three games in a row against the putrid Nets, slumping Knicks and meh Hornets, and that was three games in six days and they needed a last second shot to do it.

Mike

I mean, nobody's confusing them with a contender, but simply playing competent NBA basketball is a step up for them. The most important thing for them right now is Embiid's development, and they should be acquiring players that will compliment him and help him grow, not focusing on the best way to accommodate his backups in an attempt to save face.

[MBunge]

Oh, and for a little perspective, Embiid is looking real good but he's 22 and will turn 23 this season.

Embiid is averaging 19.6 points, 7.6 rebounds and 2.3 blocks.  22-year-old rookie Alonzo Mourning averaged 21 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.5 blocks.

But wait!  Embiid is on a minutes and game restriction.  He's averaging 25 minutes a game and is on pace to only play about 50 games.  Mourning averaged 34 minutes and played 78 games as a rookie.  Well, the per 36 numbers have Embiid at 28 points, 10.8 rebounds and 3.3 blocks and Mourning at 22.3 points, 11 rebounds and 3.7 blocks.  But per 36, Embiid is also averaging 19.7 shots a game to Mounings 15.2.

And Embiid has still played fewer games in the NBA than he did his only year in college.

I'd kill for Boston to have a center as good as Mourning but if you suck for half a decade and at the end of if you've got Mourning and a better version of Lamar Odom to show for it, was it really worth it?

Mike

[Granath]

Oh, and for a little perspective, Embiid is looking real good but he's 22 and will turn 23 this season.

Embiid is averaging 19.6 points, 7.6 rebounds and 2.3 blocks.  22-year-old rookie Alonzo Mourning averaged 21 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.5 blocks.

But wait!  Embiid is on a minutes and game restriction.  He's averaging 25 minutes a game and is on pace to only play about 50 games.  Mourning averaged 34 minutes and played 78 games as a rookie.  Well, the per 36 numbers have Embiid at 28 points, 10.8 rebounds and 3.3 blocks and Mourning at 22.3 points, 11 rebounds and 3.7 blocks.  But per 36, Embiid is also averaging 19.7 shots a game to Mounings 15.2.

And Embiid has still played fewer games in the NBA than he did his only year in college.

I'd kill for Boston to have a center as good as Mourning but if you suck for half a decade and at the end of if you've got Mourning and a better version of Lamar Odom to show for it, was it really worth it?

Mike

TP Mike (I think I'm the only one who is handing these out nowadays  )

The 76er franchise has been moribund. They have had one winning season in a dozen years (and that was strike shortened). Think of how much that's cost them in ticket sales, fans, apparel, playoff fees and other lost revenues to the franchise value. That kind of losing can really hurt the long term appeal of a franchise as now there's a whole generation who know the 76ers as nothing but losers.

That's the whole issue with this Philly rebuild. It didn't take a genius or even a guy with guts to do it. It took someone who had no vision. Now they know that at least three of their top picks - Saric, Okafor and Noel - aren't franchise-building material. That's not to say they can't contribute (though they all can't at the same time) or have some trade value but they're in essence lesser assets than they were. Now they're down to Embiid, Simmons and whoever comes along this year, hoping that these guys can carry the franchise. They're going to hold their breath on Embiid for a good long while as he's an injury away from being Greg Oden. Simmons has yet to play a minute in the NBA. That's really not a lot to show for a decade plus of losing.

Maybe they'll get lucky. Maybe they get Mourning, a better version of Odom and a good pick or two this year to form a very solid core. But just as easily they could see Embiid go down again, get an average Lamar Odom and then they have very little to show for a decade of losing.

I'd much rather take the approach Danny has. He's built a formidable team from almost spare parts and still has the draft assets to go after young talent. I won't deny that Simmons and Embiid are worth far more than Brown and Smart but that's the thing - neither of our guys has to carry the team at this stage. They're going to learn how to win on the court and what it takes to win in the NBA off the court. They don't have to deal with the pressure of carrying a team until the time is right for them to do so. That's such a huge advantage. Meanwhile, the franchise is selling tickets, merchandise and there's a whole generation of young fans who are learning to follow the Celtics. 

[LarBrd33]

Oh, and for a little perspective, Embiid is looking real good but he's 22 and will turn 23 this season.

Embiid is averaging 19.6 points, 7.6 rebounds and 2.3 blocks.  22-year-old rookie Alonzo Mourning averaged 21 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.5 blocks.

But wait!  Embiid is on a minutes and game restriction.  He's averaging 25 minutes a game and is on pace to only play about 50 games.  Mourning averaged 34 minutes and played 78 games as a rookie.  Well, the per 36 numbers have Embiid at 28 points, 10.8 rebounds and 3.3 blocks and Mourning at 22.3 points, 11 rebounds and 3.7 blocks.  But per 36, Embiid is also averaging 19.7 shots a game to Mounings 15.2.

And Embiid has still played fewer games in the NBA than he did his only year in college.

I'd kill for Boston to have a center as good as Mourning but if you suck for half a decade and at the end of if you've got Mourning and a better version of Lamar Odom to show for it, was it really worth it?

Mike

Wow.  So you're saying Embiid who has maybe 100 organized basketball games on his belt in his entire life and is working off two seasons of injury rust that continues to have his minutes limited as he gets into shape - is already playing comparable basketball to a Hall Of Fame player who came into the league healthy after 4 years of College basketball back when College basketball actually had serious competition?   That's pretty amazing.

I came into this season expecting Embiid to be a long-term star who in this first recovery season would maybe average 15-20 minutes per game with like 8 points, 4 rebounds and a block   I figured if he averaged close to what Andre Drummond did as a rookie (7.9 points, 7.6 rebounds, 1.6 blocks, 1 steal) it would have to be considered a massive win given how raw Embiid was coming out of college and the fact he's been bedridden for two years.   But now you're telling me the kid is already playing on the same level as a hall of fame player... that's incredible.

[Ilikesports17]

Oh, and for a little perspective, Embiid is looking real good but he's 22 and will turn 23 this season.

Embiid is averaging 19.6 points, 7.6 rebounds and 2.3 blocks.  22-year-old rookie Alonzo Mourning averaged 21 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.5 blocks.

But wait!  Embiid is on a minutes and game restriction.  He's averaging 25 minutes a game and is on pace to only play about 50 games.  Mourning averaged 34 minutes and played 78 games as a rookie.  Well, the per 36 numbers have Embiid at 28 points, 10.8 rebounds and 3.3 blocks and Mourning at 22.3 points, 11 rebounds and 3.7 blocks.  But per 36, Embiid is also averaging 19.7 shots a game to Mounings 15.2.

And Embiid has still played fewer games in the NBA than he did his only year in college.

I'd kill for Boston to have a center as good as Mourning but if you suck for half a decade and at the end of if you've got Mourning and a better version of Lamar Odom to show for it, was it really worth it?

Mike

Wow.  So you're saying Embiid who has maybe 100 organized basketball games on his belt in his entire life and is working off two seasons of injury rust that continues to have his minutes limited as he gets into shape - is already playing comparable basketball to a Hall Of Fame player who came into the league healthy after 4 years of College basketball back when College basketball actually had serious competition?   That's pretty amazing.

I came into this season expecting Embiid to be a long-term star who in this first recovery season would maybe average 15-20 minutes per game with like 8 points, 4 rebounds and a block   I figured if he averaged close to what Andre Drummond did as a rookie (7.9 points, 7.6 rebounds, 1.6 blocks, 1 steal) it would have to be considered a massive win given how raw Embiid was coming out of college and the fact he's been bedridden for two years.   But now you're telling me the kid is already playing on the same level as a hall of fame player... that's incredible.

Those are ridiculously low expectations

[LarBrd33]

Oh, and for a little perspective, Embiid is looking real good but he's 22 and will turn 23 this season.

Embiid is averaging 19.6 points, 7.6 rebounds and 2.3 blocks.  22-year-old rookie Alonzo Mourning averaged 21 points, 10.3 rebounds and 3.5 blocks.

But wait!  Embiid is on a minutes and game restriction.  He's averaging 25 minutes a game and is on pace to only play about 50 games.  Mourning averaged 34 minutes and played 78 games as a rookie.  Well, the per 36 numbers have Embiid at 28 points, 10.8 rebounds and 3.3 blocks and Mourning at 22.3 points, 11 rebounds and 3.7 blocks.  But per 36, Embiid is also averaging 19.7 shots a game to Mounings 15.2.

And Embiid has still played fewer games in the NBA than he did his only year in college.

I'd kill for Boston to have a center as good as Mourning but if you suck for half a decade and at the end of if you've got Mourning and a better version of Lamar Odom to show for it, was it really worth it?

Mike

Wow.  So you're saying Embiid who has maybe 100 organized basketball games on his belt in his entire life and is working off two seasons of injury rust that continues to have his minutes limited as he gets into shape - is already playing comparable basketball to a Hall Of Fame player who came into the league healthy after 4 years of College basketball back when College basketball actually had serious competition?   That's pretty amazing.

I came into this season expecting Embiid to be a long-term star who in this first recovery season would maybe average 15-20 minutes per game with like 8 points, 4 rebounds and a block   I figured if he averaged close to what Andre Drummond did as a rookie (7.9 points, 7.6 rebounds, 1.6 blocks, 1 steal) it would have to be considered a massive win given how raw Embiid was coming out of college and the fact he's been bedridden for two years.   But now you're telling me the kid is already playing on the same level as a hall of fame player... that's incredible.

Those are ridiculously low expectations

Nobody would have been surprised if a guy who hasn't played basketball in two years and is adjusting to the NBA game would put up mediocre stats.   Jaylen Brown is averaging like 3 points and he's not working off 2 years of basketball rust.

Mbunge is moving the goal posts.  He didn't think Embiid would ever play.  Then he didn't think Embiid would make it 20 games.  Now he's acting like it's a disappointment that Embiid is only as good as a hall of fame center as a rookie.  I have a feeling Philly could improbably make the playoffs (basically impossible this year, but should happen in the next 3) and MBunge would make a post acting like it's a disappointment they didn't win a championship.