CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: trickybilly on February 21, 2018, 05:46:02 AM
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I put this on the Celtics Talk because I wouldn't mind kicking the tyres on him.
I presume his market will be absolutely no more than the mid-level, but someone will offer him that mid-level for sure.
I feel like it is worth taking a chance. But Baynes is showing, despite all his predictable struggles, that the MLE should not be treated as a wildcard.
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Always liked Noel and of course he's a local kid so it would be great for him to be on the C's. He would be a great backup center to play defense and rebound, but definitely does not have the offensive skills to get a big paycheck.
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I feel as Dallas (and Noel himself) dropped his value enough to sign him at a cheap price.
He could still play this year.
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Not $70M over 4 years, so that is a real bummer for Nerlens - especially since instead of making $17.5M this year, he chose to sign for the $4.1M QO.
I would probably place his value somewhere in the MLE area, but I will be very interested to see if a team will go a little higher. If not, he may not ever get over the regret of turning down the Dallas offer.
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Hard to see Noel getting any big offers this summer, certainly nothing near what Dallas initially offered him.
My guess is he signs a one year MLE type deal somewhere to try and rebuild his value. I can't see him re-signing in Dallas, though, not after the way they basically refused to play him.
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Hard to see Noel getting any big offers this summer, certainly nothing near what Dallas initially offered him.
My guess is he signs a one year MLE type deal somewhere to try and rebuild his value. I can't see him re-signing in Dallas, though, not after the way they basically refused to play him.
I approve how the Dallas Mavericks have dealt with this situation. They get no value in playing Noel and seeing him leave for a better offer in the off-season when he does well.
They traded Anderson and two early second rounders for Noel. And although that's not a lot, it's still waisted assets without a longterm agreement from Noel. The only mistake Dallas made was actually offering Noel 70/4. That's a huge gamble and overpay. I still don't understand how Noel didn't accept that. Ridiculous. Noel should suffer the consequences not the Mavericks.
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Aren't there a bunch of stories out there about how he's super immature? Trashing his rental home in Philly, getting a hotdog during a game in Dallas, etc.
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The best possible deal he might get is a one year deal from a team with cap space that can’t sign another free agent. I can’t see anybody giving him a multi-year deal for more than the MLE.
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Aren't there a bunch of stories out there about how he's super immature? Trashing his rental home in Philly, getting a hotdog during a game in Dallas, etc.
He’s a dog in practice too- absolutely no effort- and claims he’s a “game player.” Plus he just had surgery that the Mavs didn’t approve of and could have waited until the offseason. I wouldn’t touch him.
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It's a double edged sword, old friend rick Carlisle burying Noel, Noel not capitalizing this year for multi year deal for $$$
Random things i see, he's not a starter unless its a junk team (or a great offensive team see perk) , he seems to think he is a starter. I love his defense, what does rick not like. Rick for better or worse has always been a thick headed I'm right guy (rondo, Indy/bird)
I have wanted him in past in green. However I look at a big rotation of horford, baynes, Monroe and theis and he simply doesn't fit anymore
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It's a double edged sword, old friend rick Carlisle burying Noel, Noel not capitalizing this year for multi year deal for $$$
Random things i see, he's not a starter unless its a junk team (or a great offensive team see perk) , he seems to think he is a starter. I love his defense, what does rick not like. Rick for better or worse has always been a thick headed I'm right guy (rondo, Indy/bird)
I have wanted him in past in green. However I look at a big rotation of horford, baynes, Monroe and theis and he simply doesn't fit anymore
Monroe is almost assuredly not returning next year and Baynes is certainly not guaranteed a spot. One of the smartest things Noel could do is come back 'home' and play for a contender for the MLE and hope to build up his value. Not playing on one of the worst teams has certainly ruined any previous value he had.
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It's a double edged sword, old friend rick Carlisle burying Noel, Noel not capitalizing this year for multi year deal for $$$
Random things i see, he's not a starter unless its a junk team (or a great offensive team see perk) , he seems to think he is a starter. I love his defense, what does rick not like. Rick for better or worse has always been a thick headed I'm right guy (rondo, Indy/bird)
I have wanted him in past in green. However I look at a big rotation of horford, baynes, Monroe and theis and he simply doesn't fit anymore
Monroe is almost assuredly not returning next year and Baynes is certainly not guaranteed a spot. One of the smartest things Noel could do is come back 'home' and play for a contender for the MLE and hope to build up his value. Not playing on one of the worst teams has certainly ruined any previous value he had.
I would try to resign Monroe for the full MLE next season way before Noel. I'd rather teach Monroe team defense then Noel offense.
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Seems likely we draft a big man, given that we are all set at the wings and, obviously, PG. Hard to see a malcontent having value here in that situation. He's going to be angling for playing time (to get a bigger future contract). I've liked his game at times as well - but I don't see him working out here.
I could see him going to the Clippers if they move Jordan in the off-season. Nice mid-level replacement going to a team where a player like that has a defined role... ...could be a win for the Clippers and for Noel.
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people still hung up on him...
dude has no game. he is a center but has no strength, cant shoot, doesn't try hard, cant make FT's.
he just doesn't deserve to be on a NBA hardwood anymore, especially one of the best teams in the league and in history of the game, the Celtics.
Dallas is the worst team in the league and he can't get on the floor to save his life, what is there to talk about.
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MLE
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You got Horford baynes Morris Monroe theis and with the return of Hayward Tatum will get minutes at the pf position...
Where will he play?
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I'd consider signing him on a 1-year minimum, or maybe on a 2 or 3-year deal with non-guaranteed out years for part of the MLE at a little more, but I don't think he's worth much more than that.
Centers are going to have a really hard time finding money in free agency this season. Between the lack cap space across the league, the number of teams already with tons of money/bad money tied up in Center contracts, and the large number of quality big men coming into the league in the 2018 draft I think some of the lesser free agents are going to get squeezed big time.
Brook Lopez, Baynes, Noel, Okafor, Alex Len, and Greg Monroe are all going to be UFA's looking for a piece of the same small pile of money this summer. And that's before teams start cutting non-guaranteed guys, team/player options don't get exercised, etc. Buyers market this year.
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Slim. He began the season getting minutes for Dallas and was starting some games and then totally fell out of the rotation for a bad team. His season has been a bit of a disaster.
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dumpster
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I'd consider signing him on a 1-year minimum, or maybe on a 2 or 3-year deal with non-guaranteed out years for part of the MLE at a little more, but I don't think he's worth much more than that.
Centers are going to have a really hard time finding money in free agency this season. Between the lack cap space across the league, the number of teams already with tons of money/bad money tied up in Center contracts, and the large number of quality big men coming into the league in the 2018 draft I think some of the lesser free agents are going to get squeezed big time.
Brook Lopez, Baynes, Noel, Okafor, Alex Len, and Greg Monroe are all going to be UFA's looking for a piece of the same small pile of money this summer. And that's before teams start cutting non-guaranteed guys, team/player options don't get exercised, etc. Buyers market this year.
I think there is a reasonable chance Okafor has to go overseas or the g league. I remember when I used to be on an island on this board saying he was terrible. Got a few more people on the island now.
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The Mavericks are very lucky Noel didn't accept that 4/70 offer, and Noel is an absolute idiot for turning that down. Hopefully at least he has fired his agent for advising him into that bad decision.
Noel has limited offensive value, especially in the modern NBA, where even bigs are expected to provide some floor spacing when needed. I don't mind him as a backup big on the Celtics for the MLE. But... if we are up against the luxury tax, I'm not sure he is a Stevens type of player.
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I'd consider signing him on a 1-year minimum, or maybe on a 2 or 3-year deal with non-guaranteed out years for part of the MLE at a little more, but I don't think he's worth much more than that.
Centers are going to have a really hard time finding money in free agency this season. Between the lack cap space across the league, the number of teams already with tons of money/bad money tied up in Center contracts, and the large number of quality big men coming into the league in the 2018 draft I think some of the lesser free agents are going to get squeezed big time.
Brook Lopez, Baynes, Noel, Okafor, Alex Len, and Greg Monroe are all going to be UFA's looking for a piece of the same small pile of money this summer. And that's before teams start cutting non-guaranteed guys, team/player options don't get exercised, etc. Buyers market this year.
I think there is a reasonable chance Okafor has to go overseas or the g league. I remember when I used to be on an island on this board saying he was terrible. Got a few more people on the island now.
Okafor hasn't been that bad as a bench player in Brooklyn, and still occasionally flashes the talent he has with some very strong games
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The Market for big men is going to be really interesting to watch play out this off-season. Their positional value is at an all time low and very few teams are going to have real cap room this off-season.
The free agents centers this off-season are the follwing. I put in bold the players most likely to get more then MLE.
Cousins
Jordan (player option likely to decline)
Capela RFA
Kanter (player option)
B Lopez
Nurkic RFA
Favors
Monroe
Dedmon (player option will decline)
Baynes
Lenn
Noel
Pachulia
McGee
Willie Reed
B Wright
Speights
A Johnson
Okafor
E Davis
K Koufas
J Lauvergne (player option)
Nogueira (RFA)
J Smith
This is going to be a really good market for the celtics to fill their biggest off-season roster void. With some roster gymnastics the Cs should be able to retain Smart (I suspect for around the MLE or a little more) and still have almost the full MLE to get a big man. I suspect they will show interested in retaining Baynes or Monroe and if they look outside of those two Favors and Dedmon would both be great options if they are available at that price point. The real benefit is going to be the Cs ability to pick over the left overs in the later summer and find a backup center. Players like Koufas, B Wright, E Davis or our old friend A Johnson may have to settle for vet min or BLE deals and would then look to winning teams lacking center depth.
As for Noel he may be best off looking to go to a rebuilding roster like ATL (if they dont draft a big) on a short deal. This will give him a chance to salvage his career.
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Cousins and Jordan are going to be two fascinating stories this offseason.
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The Market for big men is going to be really interesting to watch play out this off-season. Their positional value is at an all time low and very few teams are going to have real cap room this off-season.
The free agents centers this off-season are the follwing. I put in bold the players most likely to get more then MLE.
Cousins
Jordan (player option likely to decline)
Capela RFA
Kanter (player option)
B Lopez
Nurkic RFA
Favors
Monroe
Dedmon (player option will decline)
Baynes
Lenn
Noel
Pachulia
McGee
Willie Reed
B Wright
Speights
A Johnson
Okafor
E Davis
K Koufas
J Lauvergne (player option)
Nogueira (RFA)
J Smith
This is going to be a really good market for the celtics to fill their biggest off-season roster void. With some roster gymnastics the Cs should be able to retain Smart (I suspect for around the MLE or a little more) and still have almost the full MLE to get a big man. I suspect they will show interested in retaining Baynes or Monroe and if they look outside of those two Favors and Dedmon would both be great options if they are available at that price point. The real benefit is going to be the Cs ability to pick over the left overs in the later summer and find a backup center. Players like Koufas, B Wright, E Davis or our old friend A Johnson may have to settle for vet min or BLE deals and would then look to winning teams lacking center depth.
As for Noel he may be best off looking to go to a rebuilding roster like ATL (if they dont draft a big) on a short deal. This will give him a chance to salvage his career.
The big man market will be interesting indeed, especially with possibly 4 of the top 5 picks being 6'10" or taller.
http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/2018-nba-mock-draft.html
Big men on rookie-scale contracts are going to be gold.
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In short: he's screwed.
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Agreed with most that it's MLE. I think that he could get 15 mil a year from a dumb GM, though.
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It's been a forgone conclusion that Deandre Jordan is going to opt out so he can get a bigger contract but are we sure someone is going to sign him to a long term deal more than $24 mil a season? In today's NBA? With this summer's cap situation?
I won't be surprised if it happens but I don't think it's as sure of a thing as it once was. It's not like Jordan is a perenial all star or has any kind of upside we haven't seen yet.
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Can someone who thinks he will get the MLE explain why you think that he will get that because I dont think he gets close to that?
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It's been a forgone conclusion that Deandre Jordan is going to opt out so he can get a bigger contract but are we sure someone is going to sign him to a long term deal more than $24 mil a season? In today's NBA? With this summer's cap situation?
I won't be surprised if it happens but I don't think it's as sure of a thing as it once was. It's not like Jordan is a perenial all star or has any kind of upside we haven't seen yet.
I agree I suspect Jordan either gets a short deal on max money or a longer deal on sub max money. Unless a team (Kings) wants to get crazy,
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I live in Arlington TX and watch the Mavs a lot. Noel is not a good fit for the Celtics. Carlisle who is a very good coach sat Nerlens because of his bad attitude and lack of commitment so I would not like to see him in a Celtics uniform at all.
MikeB
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Nerlens agent was dumb for not taking the offer he had this past off season...
I have no idea what his market is but its not looking good if you ask me...just a dumb move.
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Noel market will be maybe room exception or mle. I can't see anyone running out to sign this guy
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I wonder who will end up losing more money because of this past season, Noel or Isaiah? Their seasons could not have gone worst.
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I wonder who will end up losing more money because of this past season, Noel or Isaiah? Their seasons could not have gone worst.
This isn't even a contest if the season ended today. Noel was never going to get more than the 4 year, $17m/yr that the Mavs supposedly offered him. He'll sign for the MLE or somewhere close to it next year.
IT was looking for the max (or close to it). This injury, coupled with an awful season, will make it difficult to offer him more than the MLE next year. Thus this year cost IT somewhere between $10m and $12m per year more than Nerlens.
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I'd consider signing him on a 1-year minimum, or maybe on a 2 or 3-year deal with non-guaranteed out years for part of the MLE at a little more, but I don't think he's worth much more than that.
Centers are going to have a really hard time finding money in free agency this season. Between the lack cap space across the league, the number of teams already with tons of money/bad money tied up in Center contracts, and the large number of quality big men coming into the league in the 2018 draft I think some of the lesser free agents are going to get squeezed big time.
Brook Lopez, Baynes, Noel, Okafor, Alex Len, and Greg Monroe are all going to be UFA's looking for a piece of the same small pile of money this summer. And that's before teams start cutting non-guaranteed guys, team/player options don't get exercised, etc. Buyers market this year.
I think there is a reasonable chance Okafor has to go overseas or the g league. I remember when I used to be on an island on this board saying he was terrible. Got a few more people on the island now.
I see Okafor getting cheap deal from Nets, so they can continue to build up his value into a reliable sixth man. Guy still can score, needs to keep working on defense and efficiency, should become valuable trade chip when they do decide to trade for a star. That'd be my guess for what Nets' have in mind
As for Noel, this dude is absolutely toast. If Rick Carlisle doesn't want anything to do with you, it is likely no one will take flyers. Just look how far Rondo's value fell once Rick was done with him.
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Nerlens agent was dumb for not taking the offer he had this past off season...
I have no idea what his market is but its not looking good if you ask me...just a dumb move.
Pretty sure the agent doesn’t make the decisions.
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I'd consider signing him on a 1-year minimum, or maybe on a 2 or 3-year deal with non-guaranteed out years for part of the MLE at a little more, but I don't think he's worth much more than that.
Centers are going to have a really hard time finding money in free agency this season. Between the lack cap space across the league, the number of teams already with tons of money/bad money tied up in Center contracts, and the large number of quality big men coming into the league in the 2018 draft I think some of the lesser free agents are going to get squeezed big time.
Brook Lopez, Baynes, Noel, Okafor, Alex Len, and Greg Monroe are all going to be UFA's looking for a piece of the same small pile of money this summer. And that's before teams start cutting non-guaranteed guys, team/player options don't get exercised, etc. Buyers market this year.
I think there is a reasonable chance Okafor has to go overseas or the g league. I remember when I used to be on an island on this board saying he was terrible. Got a few more people on the island now.
I see Okafor getting cheap deal from Nets, so they can continue to build up his value into a reliable sixth man. Guy still can score, needs to keep working on defense and efficiency, should become valuable trade chip when they do decide to trade for a star. That'd be my guess for what Nets' have in mind
As for Noel, this dude is absolutely toast. If Rick Carlisle doesn't want anything to do with you, it is likely no one will take flyers. Just look how far Rondo's value fell once Rick was done with him.
The notion that Okafor could become a valuable trade chip for a star is a pipe dream. His stint with the Nets has confirmed how bad of an NBA player he currently is. He's been in the league 3 years and he doesn't appear to have improved at all. Nets should focus on Jarret Allen.
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Nerlens agent was dumb for not taking the offer he had this past off season...
I have no idea what his market is but its not looking good if you ask me...just a dumb move.
Pretty sure the agent doesn’t make the decisions.
No, but they do have a lot of influence.
Personally, if I was an agent I would steer my clients as far away from Dallas as possible. After the shady way they treated Noel for declining their offer I wouldn't let my clients go there ever (not unless they wanted to severely overpay).
Carlisle may be a brilliant 'X's & O's' coach, but he is a stubborn child. And Mark Cuban is proving to be an even bigger jerk, and possibly guilty of allowing sexual harassment to happen in his work workplace.
This situation looks far worse for the Mavs than it does Noel, in my opinion. Benching a player and intentionally tanking his value out of spite for how contract negotiations played out is about as amateur as it gets.
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Celticsblog forum users will look over anything if the guy can do 1 thing we need.
Noel is a trash human being who just wants to get paid for being tall. I wouldn't let him near my lockerroom even if he came for free and didn't take a roster spot.
I like the type of guys the Celtics want. High character good workers multi-dimensional. Noel isn't even close to any of those things.
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Noel is a trash human being
Woah, do you know Noel personally?
That's an awful critical judgment to pass on someone for simply wanting to be paid what they think is their fair value. Noel may very well be wrong about what his value is, but claiming that it makes him a "trash human being" is about the most disgusting thing I have heard in a long time.
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I'd consider signing him on a 1-year minimum, or maybe on a 2 or 3-year deal with non-guaranteed out years for part of the MLE at a little more, but I don't think he's worth much more than that.
Centers are going to have a really hard time finding money in free agency this season. Between the lack cap space across the league, the number of teams already with tons of money/bad money tied up in Center contracts, and the large number of quality big men coming into the league in the 2018 draft I think some of the lesser free agents are going to get squeezed big time.
Brook Lopez, Baynes, Noel, Okafor, Alex Len, and Greg Monroe are all going to be UFA's looking for a piece of the same small pile of money this summer. And that's before teams start cutting non-guaranteed guys, team/player options don't get exercised, etc. Buyers market this year.
I think there is a reasonable chance Okafor has to go overseas or the g league. I remember when I used to be on an island on this board saying he was terrible. Got a few more people on the island now.
I see Okafor getting cheap deal from Nets, so they can continue to build up his value into a reliable sixth man. Guy still can score, needs to keep working on defense and efficiency, should become valuable trade chip when they do decide to trade for a star. That'd be my guess for what Nets' have in mind
As for Noel, this dude is absolutely toast. If Rick Carlisle doesn't want anything to do with you, it is likely no one will take flyers. Just look how far Rondo's value fell once Rick was done with him.
Rondo pretty much toasted his own value with his conduct in the playoffs. That's not on Rick. Been on one-year flyers ever since. Might've cost himself $100M. Now only shooters get paid, so his value has cut in half simply on account of deflation. Such players as he are out of fashion.
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Nerlens agent was dumb for not taking the offer he had this past off season...
I have no idea what his market is but its not looking good if you ask me...just a dumb move.
Pretty sure the agent doesn’t make the decisions.
They don’t, but as somebody in a similar professional role: people almost always listen to professional advice if there’s a sense of trust. The client can always decide not to follow advice, but if you’re dealing with competent professionals, those clients who decline advice will be wrong much more than they are right.
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Noel is a trash human being
Woah, do you know Noel personally?
That's an awful critical judgment to pass on someone for simply wanting to be paid what they think is their fair value. Noel may very well be wrong about what his value is, but claiming that it makes him a "trash human being" is about the most disgusting thing I have heard in a long time.
I knew of Nerlens growing up. He hung around the neighborhood and knew my son. He's generally a good immature kid but surrounded himself with a bad crew. Maybe he has changed since going pro but he is a good kid, or at least was.
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This guy has barely gotten any playing time and yet people here still think we should make some kind of solid offer (clearing some $$$ with trades) to acquire him as a "potential difference maker" for us.
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I'd consider signing him on a 1-year minimum, or maybe on a 2 or 3-year deal with non-guaranteed out years for part of the MLE at a little more, but I don't think he's worth much more than that.
Centers are going to have a really hard time finding money in free agency this season. Between the lack cap space across the league, the number of teams already with tons of money/bad money tied up in Center contracts, and the large number of quality big men coming into the league in the 2018 draft I think some of the lesser free agents are going to get squeezed big time.
Brook Lopez, Baynes, Noel, Okafor, Alex Len, and Greg Monroe are all going to be UFA's looking for a piece of the same small pile of money this summer. And that's before teams start cutting non-guaranteed guys, team/player options don't get exercised, etc. Buyers market this year.
I think there is a reasonable chance Okafor has to go overseas or the g league. I remember when I used to be on an island on this board saying he was terrible. Got a few more people on the island now.
I see Okafor getting cheap deal from Nets, so they can continue to build up his value into a reliable sixth man. Guy still can score, needs to keep working on defense and efficiency, should become valuable trade chip when they do decide to trade for a star. That'd be my guess for what Nets' have in mind
As for Noel, this dude is absolutely toast. If Rick Carlisle doesn't want anything to do with you, it is likely no one will take flyers. Just look how far Rondo's value fell once Rick was done with him.
The notion that Okafor could become a valuable trade chip for a star is a pipe dream. His stint with the Nets has confirmed how bad of an NBA player he currently is. He's been in the league 3 years and he doesn't appear to have improved at all. Nets should focus on Jarret Allen.
Yes and no. They guy has value, just needs minutes. He needs to earn them but once he figures out how to grab minutes, he will show his worth. I also agree the Nets should focus on Allen, but they’re not winning so why not do both.