Author Topic: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality  (Read 29883 times)

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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #135 on: March 08, 2018, 08:14:53 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I haven't read through the whole thread so if any of this has been discussed my bad.  But it's 2018 folks.  Racism unfortunately still exists but if anyone thinks it's as bad as it was in the 50's and 60's I have beachfront property for you in Indiana.  The biggest issue these days is that people on the left want to group everyone together and judge them off the lowest denominator of a group while people on the right want to focus on individual instances of racism and how to prevent it from happening again.  The perfect example is leftists calling all Trump voters racist because a small % of idiots on the "Alt-Right" voted for him.  And because of this, they call him racist also despite evidence to the contrary.  But then the leftists completely ignore the fact that one of the biggest racists in the world, Louis Farrakhan, was pro-Obama.  There's a ridiculous double standard because of the SJW "movement" and victimhood mentality running wild these days. 

Another issue is when someone like Ben Shapiro uses facts, stats, numbers, logic, etc to show that white privilege is in fact a myth or that the reason the number of POC in prison isn't because of racism yet because POC commit more crimes, the Leftists start screaming and whining about him being a white supremacist (Even though he's Jewish and is the #1 most hated person in the world by the Alt-Right). 

Also, this notion from white people of reverse racism is ridiculous.  There's no such thing.  There's just racism. 

We could talk about affirmative action, sub-prime mortgage lending, college grants/scholarships, and other programs that exclude only white people to prove that the country isn't racist as a whole too.

Lastly, and this is my opinion, I believe everyone needs to treat others as individuals.  Stop lumping everyone together.  Just because you may have had a negative interaction with one POC doesn't mean every other POC you meet is the same way.  If you're still using skin color as a reason to like or dislike someone in 2018 YOU are the problem.  Skin color should be 100% irrelevant. 

I look forward to any kind of civil discourse regarding this subject as I think open dialogue is the best way to find common ground moving forward.
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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #136 on: March 08, 2018, 09:24:08 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/a_wrinkle_in_time_2018#contentReviews

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/03/08/oprahs-ultra-pc-wrinkle-in-time-stung-with-bad-reviews-as-cringeworthy-100-million-dollar-disney-movie-could-bomb-experts-say.html

Are you trying to use one movie's bad reviews to prove that movie goers and critics don't like movies with social themes at the exact moment that Black Panther is on pace to become one of the 5 highest grossing movies in American history and Get Out capped its successful run with a Best Screenplay Oscar?

EDIT: I'll throw in that Shape of Water won Best Picture despite literally dripping with a social agenda.
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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #137 on: March 08, 2018, 10:34:28 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/a_wrinkle_in_time_2018#contentReviews

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/03/08/oprahs-ultra-pc-wrinkle-in-time-stung-with-bad-reviews-as-cringeworthy-100-million-dollar-disney-movie-could-bomb-experts-say.html

Are you trying to use one movie's bad reviews to prove that movie goers and critics don't like movies with social themes at the exact moment that Black Panther is on pace to become one of the 5 highest grossing movies in American history and Get Out capped its successful run with a Best Screenplay Oscar?

EDIT: I'll throw in that Shape of Water won Best Picture despite literally dripping with a social agenda.

Black Panther was a great movie because they made an entertaining movie with a good story.  There’s a distinction between “predominantly black cast” and “putting social justice ahead of making a great movie”.

As for Get Out ... Either the other nominees were remarkably weak, or that was an “affirmative action” Oscar. It was entertaining enough, but it was about as Oscar-worthy as Cabin In The Woods.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 10:42:36 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #138 on: March 08, 2018, 10:45:36 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/a_wrinkle_in_time_2018#contentReviews

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/03/08/oprahs-ultra-pc-wrinkle-in-time-stung-with-bad-reviews-as-cringeworthy-100-million-dollar-disney-movie-could-bomb-experts-say.html
They just did it poorly. Black Panther had a ton of political themes in it including social justice and did it right. I don't think just because you are pushing a social theme in a movie that that means its going to be bad, which is what you are hinting at here. It is possible to get out political opinions and social ideas and still create a great movie.

It comes down to priorities: is the movie first, or is the social agenda?

Everything I’ve read about a Wrinkle In Time has been about Oprah and the director pushing the latter, without focusing on a great underlying story.


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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #139 on: March 08, 2018, 10:49:18 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

Easy answer: no. Disney have an extremely questionable record with their non-animation based, non-franchise based live action films. John Carter - massive flop. The Lone Ranger - massive flop. Tomorrowland - massive flop. The Finest Hours - flop. Pete's Dragon - so, so. BFG - flop.

Agenda or not, these films are rarely good and Disney don't seem to care as long as they can sell some merchandise off them.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #140 on: March 08, 2018, 11:22:41 PM »

Offline TheisTheisBaby

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On the Oscars, they might be one of the 5 most useless shows on TV.  These Hollywood elites are there to be smug, pat themselves on the back, and virtue signal to a majority of people they don't relate to.  They have the nerve to push yet another false narrative with their #MeToo or #Time'sUp garbage yet they'll give KOBE an award and a standing ovation?  How many of them were 'Friends of Weinstein" when he was acting like a scumbag? 

I digress....but another issue I had was the media making such a huge deal about Black Panther and the "first black superhero" nonsense.  Did they forget about Wesley Snipes as Blade?  Or Michael Jai-White as Spawn?  Or Halle Berry as Catwoman?  And what freaking difference does it make what color the actors are?  Chadwick Bozeman was EXCELLENT as Black Panther because he's an EXCELLENT ACTOR.  Tyler Perry is black and every one of his movies sucked.  Denzel is a top 5 all-time actor.  Eddie Murphy is a legend.  And it has ZERO to do with being black.  They were just better than everyone else. 

The fact that so many people use Hollywood as their moral compass explains why there's so many issues in this country.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #141 on: March 08, 2018, 11:28:19 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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People are either willfully ignorant or naive to believe that people will pick the most qualified person or of two equally qualified people, the black person, if the other one is white. It's just not reality based!

Viola Davis said it much better than I ever could...


https://youtu.be/Sf0kDGVkVzQ

That’s just silly. Millions of “people” / employers will pick the most qualified person for a job. You seem upset about prejudice, while lumping every single decision-maker into the same category.

I mean, if you’re right, how do you account for Dwayne Johnson, Denzel Washington, Vin Diesel, Will Smith, Samuel L Jackson and others being legitimate leading men?

That’s not to say there’s no racism. There is. The solution isn’t forced employment of minorities, however. It’s making great movies regardless of race.  People who are great will be embraced in any profession, I think.

Barack Obama was the first African American POTUS and he came from very humble beginnings, if all blacks just work as hard as he did then...

That's one example of what I think of when I read a lot your non-Celtics posts and I just don't think this is the place to debate you, for a number of reasons.  Maybe I have the wrong impression of you, if that's the case, I'm sorry. I know you have a lot of power/sway and support here so I'm just going to let you have your say and move on.

I respect the right to not debate, but I don’t get your Obama example.  Blacks aren’t held to a “you need to be Obama” standard.  Nor are whites.  Millions of blacks excel in all types of fields.

I won't speak for ImShak as I am sure he can make his point better than me if he wants to, but I'll give a shot to at least something I think he is alluding to.   

The naming of the 5 (sans Morgan Freeman) best known African-American actors may be proof that some have "made it" by surface standards (we see them as rich, powerful "stars").  However, there is so much we don't know about their journeys (generally) as compared to White counterparts.  The video clip earlier in the thread from Viola Davis reveals some of the underbelly that may be unseen or less apparent but experienced nonetheless.  The essence of Davis' statements is that the experience of becoming and remaining a star is generally different for the African-American than the White American.  I don't think the point is that White stars are less talented or less hard-working, but the experience of getting to and sustaining the status is generally different.   The other point is that there is a certain proof by token example that is used to dismiss or marginalize the voicing of oppression, bias, discrimination, or higher bars that have to be ascended. This marginalization occurs when those in the majority (or power) culture essentially point to people of color who have, by outward appearances had equal opportunity and succeeded, as adequate evidence that there is empirical and equal opportunity irrespective of race.   

I think it may be both mistaken and disrespectful to not listen to (or knee-jerk ignore) those who share their experiences, and to avoid looking at the breadth of evidence that suggests that for every Barak Obama there may be 100 brilliant, talented, African-Americans who, for a host of reasons, have not been afforded opportunities or access to sustainable success that are comparable to equally competent White Americans.   The leap of faith in this is to actually believe the ones who are experiencing and sharing rather than dismiss based on possibly inaccurate or under-informed assumptions.

Not sure what I got right in the above paragraphs -- I am an old, not too brilliant, not too talented White guy with an average work ethic who has had all sorts of opportunities to succeed in America.

I am a woman and yep, that is exactly what I was trying to express. You said it much better than I could. Thank you.
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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #142 on: March 08, 2018, 11:36:54 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

Easy answer: no. Disney have an extremely questionable record with their non-animation based, non-franchise based live action films. John Carter - massive flop. The Lone Ranger - massive flop. Tomorrowland - massive flop. The Finest Hours - flop. Pete's Dragon - so, so. BFG - flop.

Agenda or not, these films are rarely good and Disney don't seem to care as long as they can sell some merchandise off them.

many big budget films flop, it doesn't stop them from being made. if predominantly black movies (rarely a big budget) fail, it signals to some people that it was because audiences won't or don't want to go see those types of movies. you can't prove otherwise if they aren't going to fund movies with POC the way they do for other projects.

I have yet to see anyone argue that things aren't getting better but to pretend that it's close to equal IMO is hilarious. 
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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #143 on: March 08, 2018, 11:54:05 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

Easy answer: no. Disney have an extremely questionable record with their non-animation based, non-franchise based live action films. John Carter - massive flop. The Lone Ranger - massive flop. Tomorrowland - massive flop. The Finest Hours - flop. Pete's Dragon - so, so. BFG - flop.

Agenda or not, these films are rarely good and Disney don't seem to care as long as they can sell some merchandise off them.

many big budget films flop, it doesn't stop them from being made. if predominantly black movies (rarely a big budget) fail, it signals to some people that it was because audiences won't or don't want to go see those types of movies. you can't prove otherwise if they aren't going to fund movies with POC the way they do for other projects.

I have yet to see anyone argue that things aren't getting better but to pretend that it's close to equal IMO is hilarious.

I agree. As a white person, I don't have any guilt for slavery. Slave ownership is horrific, and I like to think that I'd do whatever I could to stop it. I also don't get offended when people tell me that I'm privileged for being white. I know this. It doesn't mean that I don't have to work hard- I do. If anything, it makes me feel grateful, and want to help people that could use help. I see no problem with more diversity for tertiary roles, and I'm not worried about a decline in talent. I don't believe that there should be a drop off between the best white actor and the best black actor. This is the implied fear when trying to prevent Hollywood from going all SJW Oprah.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #144 on: March 08, 2018, 11:54:59 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/a_wrinkle_in_time_2018#contentReviews

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/03/08/oprahs-ultra-pc-wrinkle-in-time-stung-with-bad-reviews-as-cringeworthy-100-million-dollar-disney-movie-could-bomb-experts-say.html
They just did it poorly. Black Panther had a ton of political themes in it including social justice and did it right. I don't think just because you are pushing a social theme in a movie that that means its going to be bad, which is what you are hinting at here. It is possible to get out political opinions and social ideas and still create a great movie.

It comes down to priorities: is the movie first, or is the social agenda?

Everything I’ve read about a Wrinkle In Time has been about Oprah and the director pushing the latter, without focusing on a great underlying story.
So you don't think its possible for a movie to concentratre on being the best movie it can be while also delivering a social message or political view?

I do and I think Black Panther is proof of that. I haven't seen a Wrinkle in Time but tend to hate Oprah Winfrey stuff because she goes way too overboard in dramaticizing the plight of black people to the detriment of the movie.

For instance, I think The Help was am immensely important and great film. They did it right with great actors and actresses without all the pomp and circumstance that usually happens with an Oprah film.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #145 on: March 09, 2018, 12:03:32 AM »

Offline TheisTheisBaby

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

Easy answer: no. Disney have an extremely questionable record with their non-animation based, non-franchise based live action films. John Carter - massive flop. The Lone Ranger - massive flop. Tomorrowland - massive flop. The Finest Hours - flop. Pete's Dragon - so, so. BFG - flop.

Agenda or not, these films are rarely good and Disney don't seem to care as long as they can sell some merchandise off them.

many big budget films flop, it doesn't stop them from being made. if predominantly black movies (rarely a big budget) fail, it signals to some people that it was because audiences won't or don't want to go see those types of movies. you can't prove otherwise if they aren't going to fund movies with POC the way they do for other projects.

I have yet to see anyone argue that things aren't getting better but to pretend that it's close to equal IMO is hilarious.

I agree. As a white person, I don't have any guilt for slavery. Slave ownership is horrific, and I like to think that I'd do whatever I could to stop it. I also don't get offended when people tell me that I'm privileged for being white. I know this. It doesn't mean that I don't have to work hard- I do. If anything, it makes me feel grateful, and want to help people that could use help. I see no problem with more diversity for tertiary roles, and I'm not worried about a decline in talent. I don't believe that there should be a drop off between the best white actor and the best black actor. This is the implied fear when trying to prevent Hollywood from going all SJW Oprah.

To be blunt, white privilege is a complete myth in today's society.  It's a Leftist term used to silence white people that don't agree with false narratives.  It has been debunked numerous times by people much smarter than us.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #146 on: March 09, 2018, 12:20:14 AM »

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1791L just put out a good video about diversity at Google.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_aE0OXY5o4
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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #147 on: March 09, 2018, 12:20:31 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

Easy answer: no. Disney have an extremely questionable record with their non-animation based, non-franchise based live action films. John Carter - massive flop. The Lone Ranger - massive flop. Tomorrowland - massive flop. The Finest Hours - flop. Pete's Dragon - so, so. BFG - flop.

Agenda or not, these films are rarely good and Disney don't seem to care as long as they can sell some merchandise off them.

many big budget films flop, it doesn't stop them from being made. if predominantly black movies (rarely a big budget) fail, it signals to some people that it was because audiences won't or don't want to go see those types of movies. you can't prove otherwise if they aren't going to fund movies with POC the way they do for other projects.

I have yet to see anyone argue that things aren't getting better but to pretend that it's close to equal IMO is hilarious.

I agree. As a white person, I don't have any guilt for slavery. Slave ownership is horrific, and I like to think that I'd do whatever I could to stop it. I also don't get offended when people tell me that I'm privileged for being white. I know this. It doesn't mean that I don't have to work hard- I do. If anything, it makes me feel grateful, and want to help people that could use help. I see no problem with more diversity for tertiary roles, and I'm not worried about a decline in talent. I don't believe that there should be a drop off between the best white actor and the best black actor. This is the implied fear when trying to prevent Hollywood from going all SJW Oprah.

To be blunt, white privilege is a complete myth in today's society.  It's a Leftist term used to silence white people that don't agree with false narratives.  It has been debunked numerous times by people much smarter than us.
There is also a ton of peer reviewed stuff that got people doctorates that show white priviledge exists. So, no, white priviledge has not been debunked and being a white in a most minority world most of my life, I would tend to agree with that.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #148 on: March 09, 2018, 12:28:15 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

Easy answer: no. Disney have an extremely questionable record with their non-animation based, non-franchise based live action films. John Carter - massive flop. The Lone Ranger - massive flop. Tomorrowland - massive flop. The Finest Hours - flop. Pete's Dragon - so, so. BFG - flop.

Agenda or not, these films are rarely good and Disney don't seem to care as long as they can sell some merchandise off them.

many big budget films flop, it doesn't stop them from being made. if predominantly black movies (rarely a big budget) fail, it signals to some people that it was because audiences won't or don't want to go see those types of movies. you can't prove otherwise if they aren't going to fund movies with POC the way they do for other projects.

I have yet to see anyone argue that things aren't getting better but to pretend that it's close to equal IMO is hilarious.

I agree. As a white person, I don't have any guilt for slavery. Slave ownership is horrific, and I like to think that I'd do whatever I could to stop it. I also don't get offended when people tell me that I'm privileged for being white. I know this. It doesn't mean that I don't have to work hard- I do. If anything, it makes me feel grateful, and want to help people that could use help. I see no problem with more diversity for tertiary roles, and I'm not worried about a decline in talent. I don't believe that there should be a drop off between the best white actor and the best black actor. This is the implied fear when trying to prevent Hollywood from going all SJW Oprah.

To be blunt, white privilege is a complete myth in today's society.  It's a Leftist term used to silence white people that don't agree with false narratives.  It has been debunked numerous times by people much smarter than us.
There is also a ton of peer reviewed stuff that got people doctorates that show white priviledge exists. So, no, white priviledge has not been debunked and being a white in a most minority world most of my life, I would tend to agree with that.

Again, I don't mind saying that it exists. The notion doesn't threaten me. I don't feel the urge to prove to people that I had a really tough upbringing to counter the idea that being white, male, and able to speak English will get you pretty far in this world.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #149 on: March 09, 2018, 01:09:20 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/a_wrinkle_in_time_2018#contentReviews

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/03/08/oprahs-ultra-pc-wrinkle-in-time-stung-with-bad-reviews-as-cringeworthy-100-million-dollar-disney-movie-could-bomb-experts-say.html
They just did it poorly. Black Panther had a ton of political themes in it including social justice and did it right. I don't think just because you are pushing a social theme in a movie that that means its going to be bad, which is what you are hinting at here. It is possible to get out political opinions and social ideas and still create a great movie.

It comes down to priorities: is the movie first, or is the social agenda?

Everything I’ve read about a Wrinkle In Time has been about Oprah and the director pushing the latter, without focusing on a great underlying story.
So you don't think its possible for a movie to concentratre on being the best movie it can be while also delivering a social message or political view?

I do and I think Black Panther is proof of that. I haven't seen a Wrinkle in Time but tend to hate Oprah Winfrey stuff because she goes way too overboard in dramaticizing the plight of black people to the detriment of the movie.

For instance, I think The Help was am immensely important and great film. They did it right with great actors and actresses without all the pomp and circumstance that usually happens with an Oprah film.

Movies can do both, but there are creative choices made that prioritize one over the other. Was Black Panther’s focus making a great superhero movie, or pushing social justice. It’s obviously the former.

A Wrinkle In Time is what happens when you give $100 million to somebody who is pushing her own agenda, rather than making a great movie.


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