Should the Sox attempt to trade for Felix Hernandez?

[Rondo2287]

On WEEI, Buster Olney suggest it may take a package of Papelbon, Buccholz, and prospects to get Felix out of Seattle.  What do you all think?  Depending on who this prospect is, I think I would do it.  My thinking is: Best case scenario, Buccholz turns into Felix, worst case, he regresses next year and fizzles out.  We know what Paps gives us, however we also have a guy like Bard who could be next in line for that role. But at the end of the day, a number 1 starter is worth more than a top flight closer IMO.

[yall hate]

On WEEI, Buster Olney suggest it may take a package of Papelbon, Buccholz, and prospects to get Felix out of Seattle.  What do you all think?  Depending on who this prospect is, I think I would do it.  My thinking is: Best case scenario, Buccholz turns into Felix, worst case, he regresses next year and fizzles out.  We know what Paps gives us, however we also have a guy like Bard who could be next in line for that role. But at the end of the day, a number 1 starter is worth more than a top flight closer IMO.

It depends who the "and prospects" are.  Buch and Pap right there is a huge package (in the sense that it is a cost controlled number 3 pitcher right now - getting better, and a semi cost controlled, all star closer).  I dont think I would be inclined to include much more than that.  another prospect (maybe like a Bowden, but not sure I would give up anyone else in the top 10. http://soxprospects.com/)




Edit: A mod should (could - please?) move this discussion into a sox offseason thread, since it has nothing to do with the ALDS, and will likely come up all winter...

[Donoghus]

It all depends on who the Red Sox are giving up.  Unlike Halladay, I'd be willing to give up some blue chip guys for Hernandez.  The guy is young and a stud. 

I'd like to see them address the offense first but if there is a possibility to acquire Hernandez without emptying out the farm system, I'm definitely interested.

[Rondo2287]

First of all thanks for making this a legit thread, sorry about taking over the last one.  

Secondly.  I agree, Bowden is the guy that I would be likely to give up.  Guy hasnt really shown me much, but the sox organization is still pretty high on him apparently.  Ive been thinking about it though, do you think the Red Sox like to develop young pitching, and pay for or trade for position players?  

I liken this to the way that for the most part BB doesnt like to draft young linebackers and prefers experienced guys.  Do you think Theo has possibly decided the market is inefficient and young pitching is valued to highly around the league, therefor he tries to develop and trade it for hitting later down the road?

[yall hate]

First of all thanks for making this a legit thread, sorry about taking over the last one.  

Secondly.  I agree, Bowden is the guy that I would be likely to give up.  Guy hasnt really shown me much, but the sox organization is still pretty high on him apparently.  Ive been thinking about it though, do you think the Red Sox like to develop young pitching, and pay for or trade for position players?  

I liken this to the way that for the most part BB doesnt like to draft young linebackers and prefers experienced guys.  Do you think Theo has possibly decided the market is inefficient and young pitching is valued to highly around the league, therefor he tries to develop and trade it for hitting later down the road?

no.

Jacoby, Pedroia, Youk all home grown. 

I think they recognize the importance of pitchers, but I dont think they tailor their draft strategy based on cost at the MLB level for star players. 

I also think power hitters are just rare.  thats all.  those guys seem to be 'studs' in the draft and thus are getting drafted before we are anywhere near on teh clock

[Rondo2287]

First of all thanks for making this a legit thread, sorry about taking over the last one.  

Secondly.  I agree, Bowden is the guy that I would be likely to give up.  Guy hasnt really shown me much, but the sox organization is still pretty high on him apparently.  Ive been thinking about it though, do you think the Red Sox like to develop young pitching, and pay for or trade for position players?  

I liken this to the way that for the most part BB doesnt like to draft young linebackers and prefers experienced guys.  Do you think Theo has possibly decided the market is inefficient and young pitching is valued to highly around the league, therefor he tries to develop and trade it for hitting later down the road?

no.

Jacoby, Pedroia, Youk all home grown. 

I think they recognize the importance of pitchers, but I dont think they tailor their draft strategy based on cost at the MLB level for star players. 

And who do they have since then?  And can any of them been seen as legit power hitters?  Youk was drafted in the 8th round so I dont think you can say they were looking at him down the road to be the guy that he is.  Infact they say the only reason the sox drafted him was because the knew Oakland wanted him. 

The power threats in their lineup, Youk, Drew, Bay, Papi, Lowell, Victor.  All but one were aquired during free agency or trades. 

[MBz]

I wouldn't give up Buchholz and Papelbon for him.  I'd give up  Papelbon and a Bowden or Lars Anderson, but would not give up Buchholz. 

[Redz]

he'll be wayyyyy to steep to acquire

[Donoghus]

he'll be wayyyyy to steep to acquire

Its definitely going to be a steep price to pay.

[Rondo2287]

he'll be wayyyyy to steep to acquire

I dunno though Redz, Theo was agressive on him at the trade deadline and said yesterday that he wants to revisit the possibility with Seattle.  So who knows.  

[yall hate]

First of all thanks for making this a legit thread, sorry about taking over the last one.  

Secondly.  I agree, Bowden is the guy that I would be likely to give up.  Guy hasnt really shown me much, but the sox organization is still pretty high on him apparently.  Ive been thinking about it though, do you think the Red Sox like to develop young pitching, and pay for or trade for position players?  

I liken this to the way that for the most part BB doesnt like to draft young linebackers and prefers experienced guys.  Do you think Theo has possibly decided the market is inefficient and young pitching is valued to highly around the league, therefor he tries to develop and trade it for hitting later down the road?

no.

Jacoby, Pedroia, Youk all home grown. 

I think they recognize the importance of pitchers, but I dont think they tailor their draft strategy based on cost at the MLB level for star players. 

And who do they have since then?  And can any of them been seen as legit power hitters?  Youk was drafted in the 8th round so I dont think you can say they were looking at him down the road to be the guy that he is.  Infact they say the only reason the sox drafted him was because the knew Oakland wanted him. 

The power threats in their lineup, Youk, Drew, Bay, Papi, Lowell, Victor.  All but one were aquired during free agency or trades. 

That has got to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever seen.  They only drafted him because another team (and not even a rival) wanted him?  I think I have read that someplace, and the Sox organization laughed it off as moronic.

That's absurd.


I never said they were power hitters - rather offensive players they drafted (you yourself began the discussion stating position players - not power hitters)


and a quick look of their prospects reveals many potential offensive threats - whether they pan out or not is part of the process, but they draft many position players in the draft. 

[Donoghus]

he'll be wayyyyy to steep to acquire

I dunno though Redz, Theo was agressive on him at the trade deadline and said yesterday that he wants to revisit the possibility with Seattle.  So who knows.  

Sure, I wouldn't be shocked if they revisit it.

However, its going to be an extremely steep price.  Seattle has no incentive to trade Hernandez right now.  They have him under a very reasonable contract for a couple of more seasons.  The only incentive they would have this offseason would be an overwhelming offer aka a steep price to pay.

[Rondo2287]

First of all thanks for making this a legit thread, sorry about taking over the last one.  

Secondly.  I agree, Bowden is the guy that I would be likely to give up.  Guy hasnt really shown me much, but the sox organization is still pretty high on him apparently.  Ive been thinking about it though, do you think the Red Sox like to develop young pitching, and pay for or trade for position players?  

I liken this to the way that for the most part BB doesnt like to draft young linebackers and prefers experienced guys.  Do you think Theo has possibly decided the market is inefficient and young pitching is valued to highly around the league, therefor he tries to develop and trade it for hitting later down the road?

no.

Jacoby, Pedroia, Youk all home grown. 

I think they recognize the importance of pitchers, but I dont think they tailor their draft strategy based on cost at the MLB level for star players. 

And who do they have since then?  And can any of them been seen as legit power hitters?  Youk was drafted in the 8th round so I dont think you can say they were looking at him down the road to be the guy that he is.  Infact they say the only reason the sox drafted him was because the knew Oakland wanted him. 

The power threats in their lineup, Youk, Drew, Bay, Papi, Lowell, Victor.  All but one were aquired during free agency or trades. 

That has got to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever seen.  They only drafted him because another team (and not even a rival) wanted him? 

That's absurd.


I never said they were power hitters - rather offensive players they drafted (you yourself began the discussion stating position players - not power hitters)


and a quick look of their prospects reveals many potential offensive threats - whether they pan out or not is part of the process, but they draft many position players in the draft. 

Ummm, it was actually in the national best seller money ball that suggested that Theo and the Sox were trying to figure out what Billy Beane was doing and heard that he wanted Youk so they drafted him.  

"Lewis also revealed that Beane repeatedly tried to trade for Youkilis before Youkilis reached the major leagues. His attempts were blocked, however, by Beane admirer, and now Red Sox GM, Theo Epstein.[118]" Wiki

It is clear that he was held onto by the sox because of the fact that Oakland wanted him so badly.  

And when you look at the prospect  board.  9 out of the top 20 are Starting Pitchers.  That is a pretty big number in my opinion.  For the 9 players on the field at once to devote almost half your top prospects to one position shows an investment in that one position clearly over others.  

[WeMadeIt17]

Mariner Fan here and i really hope we dont give up Felix because he is going to be very good for years so come. I dont see us trading him unless something blows us out of the water.

[Rondo2287]

he'll be wayyyyy to steep to acquire

I dunno though Redz, Theo was agressive on him at the trade deadline and said yesterday that he wants to revisit the possibility with Seattle.  So who knows.  

Sure, I wouldn't be shocked if they revisit it.

However, its going to be an extremely steep price.  Seattle has no incentive to trade Hernandez right now.  They have him under a very reasonable contract for a couple of more seasons.  The only incentive they would have this offseason would be an overwhelming offer aka a steep price to pay.

Oh I agree its gonna be really high.  But Felix is scheduled to be a FA after 2011.  The Mariners have already tried to sign him to long term deals twice and failed.  There incentive now is to try and trade him while his stock is at an all time high if they feel they can't get a long term deal done.