Jimmy Butler (Merged Threads)

[Moranis]

Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I'm watching the beginning of the Magic-Heat preseason game right now (wanted to get a glimpse Bamba and Iwundu), but they have done nothing but talk about Richardson the entire time. They had a brief interview with Spo about him. They ran multiple stats highlighting him on defense, blocking, and shooting. Then, the announcers did nothing but talk about him for the first few minutes of the game.

The cynic in me says this is an organizational effort to boost Richardson's trade value in the trade for Butler.

I like Richardson. I like him a lot. I think he can still go up another level as a player. I think he would be a great get in a trade for Butler. But he is probably the 3rd best starter on the Heat, and even that may be generous.

Dragic is definitely better but who else on the roster is definitely better? Whitside and Winslow? I guess I don't know the Heat's roster well enough to know where he ranks....

I personally would have James Johnson ahead of him, Dragic as you mention, and perhaps Whiteside. Whiteside is certainly more gifted, just a bonehead

Yeah, I could see that but as I'm looking over Miami's roster construction, they really overpaid for some role players.

Tyler Johnson most especially, although he always seems to dominate against us, mysteriously

They matched Johnson didn't they?  Wasn't that a Nets contract offer like Crabbe who was also matched and then they ended up with anyway?

[gouki88]

Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I'm watching the beginning of the Magic-Heat preseason game right now (wanted to get a glimpse Bamba and Iwundu), but they have done nothing but talk about Richardson the entire time. They had a brief interview with Spo about him. They ran multiple stats highlighting him on defense, blocking, and shooting. Then, the announcers did nothing but talk about him for the first few minutes of the game.

The cynic in me says this is an organizational effort to boost Richardson's trade value in the trade for Butler.

I like Richardson. I like him a lot. I think he can still go up another level as a player. I think he would be a great get in a trade for Butler. But he is probably the 3rd best starter on the Heat, and even that may be generous.

Dragic is definitely better but who else on the roster is definitely better? Whitside and Winslow? I guess I don't know the Heat's roster well enough to know where he ranks....

I personally would have James Johnson ahead of him, Dragic as you mention, and perhaps Whiteside. Whiteside is certainly more gifted, just a bonehead

Yeah, I could see that but as I'm looking over Miami's roster construction, they really overpaid for some role players.

Tyler Johnson most especially, although he always seems to dominate against us, mysteriously

They matched Johnson didn't they?  Wasn't that a Nets contract offer like Crabbe who was also matched and then they ended up with anyway?

I think you're right, 4/50 was his deal. However, it was incredibly back-heavy, so it was basically 5.6/5.8/19.2/19.2, so it's quite ugly now.

[jambr380]

The Tyler Johnson contract looks bad, but it was really a $50M/4 year contract. The first two years of the contract only paid him like $11M combined; it's the last two years of $19M+ each that makes his contract look insane.

Anyway, I hope this Butler stuff gets worked out soon. There is only another week or so before the season starts. It's going to be weird if he just isn't playing, but still a part of the Wolves.

EDIT: tp to gouki for beating me to the Johnson contract details.

[liam]

The Tyler Johnson contract looks bad, but it was really a $50M/4 year contract. The first two years of the contract only paid him like $11M combined; it's the last two years of $19M+ each that makes his contract looked insane.

Anyway, I hope this Butler stuff gets worked out soon. There is only another week or so before the season starts. It's going to be weird if he just isn't playing, but still a part of the Wolves.

EDIT: tp to gouki for beating me to the Johnson contract details.

Danny Ainge  would never sign this kind of contract. It's what keeps your team from contending.

[liam]

The Wolves are getting into a powerplay with Butler and it's not going to end well. The longer they drag it out the worse it will be...

[DefenseWinsChamps]

The Wolves are getting into a powerplay with Butler and it's not going to end well. The longer they drag it out the worse it will be...

I don't necessarily agree. I know it's typical to make the team the bad guy in this situation, but I think this is hurting Butler too.

Ultimately, the Wolves will find a team that pays close to what they want. In fact, the narrative I suggested yesterday was that McDonough for the Suns was unwilling to include Jackson in a trade for Butler, which ultimately led (with his other questionable moves) to him getting fired. Now, you have to wonder if a Chandler, Jackson, Warren for Dieng and Butler would get it done.

That's better than Bam, Richardson, and Johnson package from the Heat.

That's probably better than the Harris, Gortat, Robinson package from the Clippers.

[BitterJim]

The Tyler Johnson contract looks bad, but it was really a $50M/4 year contract. The first two years of the contract only paid him like $11M combined; it's the last two years of $19M+ each that makes his contract looked insane.

Anyway, I hope this Butler stuff gets worked out soon. There is only another week or so before the season starts. It's going to be weird if he just isn't playing, but still a part of the Wolves.

EDIT: tp to gouki for beating me to the Johnson contract details.

Danny Ainge  would never sign this kind of contract. It's what keeps your team from contending.

I don't know all the details on this specific contract, but usually when they have a massive jump like that the cap hit is spread evenly across the contract. So from a cap standpoint, it's no different than a 4/$50 million contract worth $12.5 million every year

[liam]

The Tyler Johnson contract looks bad, but it was really a $50M/4 year contract. The first two years of the contract only paid him like $11M combined; it's the last two years of $19M+ each that makes his contract looked insane.

Anyway, I hope this Butler stuff gets worked out soon. There is only another week or so before the season starts. It's going to be weird if he just isn't playing, but still a part of the Wolves.

EDIT: tp to gouki for beating me to the Johnson contract details.

Danny Ainge  would never sign this kind of contract. It's what keeps your team from contending.

I don't know all the details on this specific contract, but usually when they have a massive jump like that the cap hit is spread evenly across the contract. So from a cap standpoint, it's no different than a 4/$50 million contract worth $12.5 million every year

It makes future flexibility harder with the way it's structured and it's an overpay.

[liam]

The Wolves are getting into a powerplay with Butler and it's not going to end well. The longer they drag it out the worse it will be...

I don't necessarily agree. I know it's typical to make the team the bad guy in this situation, but I think this is hurting Butler too.

Ultimately, the Wolves will find a team that pays close to what they want. In fact, the narrative I suggested yesterday was that McDonough for the Suns was unwilling to include Jackson in a trade for Butler, which ultimately led (with his other questionable moves) to him getting fired. Now, you have to wonder if a Chandler, Jackson, Warren for Dieng and Butler would get it done.

That's better than Bam, Richardson, and Johnson package from the Heat.

That's probably better than the Harris, Gortat, Robinson package from the Clippers.

That Phoenix deal does look better. But I think Jackson is a good prospect and a good fit for the Timberwolves.

[Birdman]

Better not keep him all season..he leave and wont get nothing..look at Phoenix with Amare and Toronto with Chris Bosh..they left and got nothing..hurt them for awhile

[BitterJim]

The Tyler Johnson contract looks bad, but it was really a $50M/4 year contract. The first two years of the contract only paid him like $11M combined; it's the last two years of $19M+ each that makes his contract looked insane.

Anyway, I hope this Butler stuff gets worked out soon. There is only another week or so before the season starts. It's going to be weird if he just isn't playing, but still a part of the Wolves.

EDIT: tp to gouki for beating me to the Johnson contract details.

Danny Ainge  would never sign this kind of contract. It's what keeps your team from contending.

I don't know all the details on this specific contract, but usually when they have a massive jump like that the cap hit is spread evenly across the contract. So from a cap standpoint, it's no different than a 4/$50 million contract worth $12.5 million every year

It makes future flexibility harder with the way it's structured and it's an overpay.

It works the same way in a trade as a contract with flat salary. The only difference is the actual money paid, but salary matching and cap hits are the same. It has no effect on flexibility. As for being an overpay, that has nothing to do with the structure of the contract.

[celticsclay]

The Wolves are getting into a powerplay with Butler and it's not going to end well. The longer they drag it out the worse it will be...

I don't necessarily agree. I know it's typical to make the team the bad guy in this situation, but I think this is hurting Butler too.

Ultimately, the Wolves will find a team that pays close to what they want. In fact, the narrative I suggested yesterday was that McDonough for the Suns was unwilling to include Jackson in a trade for Butler, which ultimately led (with his other questionable moves) to him getting fired. Now, you have to wonder if a Chandler, Jackson, Warren for Dieng and Butler would get it done.

That's better than Bam, Richardson, and Johnson package from the Heat.

That's probably better than the Harris, Gortat, Robinson package from the Clippers.

That Phoenix deal does look better. But I think Jackson is a good prospect and a good fit for the Timberwolves.

Is there any chance Butler resigns in Phoenix to play with Booker, Ariza, Bridges and Ayton? If he thought Towns, Wiggins, Rose, Teague and Gibson was not a competitive squad what is he going to think of going even younger and less accomplished?

[Moranis]

Better not keep him all season..he leave and wont get nothing..look at Phoenix with Amare and Toronto with Chris Bosh..they left and got nothing..hurt them for awhile

Toronto got 2 first round picks for Bosh, including their own pick back that became a top 5 pick. 

[liam]

The Wolves are getting into a powerplay with Butler and it's not going to end well. The longer they drag it out the worse it will be...

I don't necessarily agree. I know it's typical to make the team the bad guy in this situation, but I think this is hurting Butler too.

Ultimately, the Wolves will find a team that pays close to what they want. In fact, the narrative I suggested yesterday was that McDonough for the Suns was unwilling to include Jackson in a trade for Butler, which ultimately led (with his other questionable moves) to him getting fired. Now, you have to wonder if a Chandler, Jackson, Warren for Dieng and Butler would get it done.

That's better than Bam, Richardson, and Johnson package from the Heat.

That's probably better than the Harris, Gortat, Robinson package from the Clippers.

That Phoenix deal does look better. But I think Jackson is a good prospect and a good fit for the Timberwolves.

Is there any chance Butler resigns in Phoenix to play with Booker, Ariza, Bridges and Ayton? If he thought Towns, Wiggins, Rose, Teague and Gibson was not a competitive squad what is he going to think of going even younger and less accomplished?

I think Booker is the best player on that list.

[fairweatherfan]

Woj (Drama) Bomb:

All-Star Jimmy Butler participated in Minnesota's practice, a session that included him verbally challenging teammates, coaches and front office, league sources told ESPN. Butler was vociferous and emotional at times, targeting Thibodeau/Layden/Towns/Wiggins. Story soon on ESPN.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050099591226552320

Lol update:

At one point in a scrimmage, sources said, Butler turned to GM Scott Layden and screamed, "You (bleeping) need me. You can't win without me." Butler left teammates and coaches largely speechless. He dominated the gym in every way. Jimmy's back.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050102251262480386

Sounds like a normal, healthy atmosphere over there in Minnesota. Although honestly, depending on how it got taken this kind of thing could unify the team, albeit probably against Butler.