90s/2000s players being overrated today....

[greg683x]

so ill give a warning here that this is an old man rant....

What players from the 90's and 2000s are grossly overrated by todays generation?  Some even receive legendary status when I feel they were anything but.  Its like the opposite of when i was growing up, old people would tell us how great players were from previous generations and a lot of us just didnt get it.  Where as today, I feel like its the opposite, mainly because of highlight packages on youtube

but this has been driving me nuts, i dont participate in social media much in general, but i do read a lot of discussions that come up on feeds that I have, a lot of it is sports related, typically GOAT discussions and player rankings, and the way some players from the 90s/00s are viewed is wild to me.

anyway, so to answer my own questions, these players specifically, I think are grossly overrated by todays generation.

Jason Williams (White Chocolate) - people clamour over his highlights and talk about how criminally underrated he was in his prime.  People have even said if he stayed on the Kings, they might have won a title! What almost never gets mentioned is that Rick Adelman use to bench him in the 4th quarter at times bc he couldnt stop turning the ball over.  The Kings didnt become a legit contendor until they got rid of Williams and brought in Mike Bibby (who also doesnt get enough credit for his time with the Kings)

Allen Iverson - people today rank Iverson as a top 5 SG all time, and his run to the finals in 2001 and even being able to win one game against the lakers is super human because it was him and a bunch of scrubs on his team.  The truth, Iverson had the 6th man of the year, the defensive player of the year, and and the coach of the year, while playing in a historically weak Eastern Conference.  In this historic playoff run, he shot under 30% from the field for the entire playoffs.  Yes he did have moments of brilliance but they were cancelled out by absolutely dreadful shooting displays.  For me, AI will always be remembered as a me first player who was a volume scorer on teams that almost always underachieved, then had to retire bc he refused to come off the bench.

Kobe Bryant - I actually think Kobe is a top 10 player all time.  But hes viewed today as a top 3, which is bananas to me.  Kobe always benefitted from having the best big men in the sport on his team.  Today people say he beat the Big Three Boston celtics by himself in 2010, which is crazy.  The disrespect that Pau Gasol gets for his role on that team in criminal, and the HUGE role Andrew Bynum played is largely forgotten about, not to mention Lamar Odom.


anyways, end of rant.  Anyone else have a player from this era who gets legend status thats undeserved?  Curious what other people think, and Im sure some will have problems with my opinions, especially regarding Iverson, but its a good discussion!  and my daughter is watching Cars for the 800th time so it gives me something to do

BTW, players from the 90s/00s that I believe are UNDERrated are John Stockton, Charles Barkley, and David Robinson

[Who]

Jason Williams (White Chocolate) - people clamour over his highlights and talk about how criminally underrated he was in his prime.  People have even said if he stayed on the Kings, they might have won a title! What almost never gets mentioned is that Rick Adelman use to bench him in the 4th quarter at times bc he couldnt stop turning the ball over.  The Kings didnt become a legit contendor until they got rid of Williams and brought in Mike Bibby (who also doesnt get enough credit for his time with the Kings)

Middle of the pack average starting PG.

[Who]

Allen Iverson - people today rank Iverson as a top 5 SG all time, and his run to the finals in 2001 and even being able to win one game against the lakers is super human because it was him and a bunch of scrubs on his team.  The truth, Iverson had the 6th man of the year, the defensive player of the year, and and the coach of the year, while playing in a historically weak Eastern Conference.  In this historic playoff run, he shot under 30% from the field for the entire playoffs.  Yes he did have moments of brilliance but they were cancelled out by absolutely dreadful shooting displays.  For me, AI will always be remembered as a me first player who was a volume scorer on teams that almost always underachieved, then had to retire bc he refused to come off the bench.

Iverson is a player I have a terrible time rating. I have no idea where to put him / what to do with him.

He is not a real PG. He is too small to be a true SG. He is a combo guard but even for that he is grossly undersized.

He was both remarkable offensively and difficult to play with. A one man offense capable of creating a sensational amount of offense. Both for himself and for his teammates. But he needed to completely take over his team's offense to do it. He had very little success with offensively orientated teammates. His best success came with defensive minded teammates who let him do his thing. So not a player for all teams. A player with a very specific skill-set that is only highly valuable in those settings.

Lack of size defensively limits options to pair him in the backcourt. Needs to be able to defend opposing PG to avoid being a liability on defense. So needs to be paired with a big defensive PG to play off ball or live with the difficulty of AI at PG on offense.

At both times, so great a talent and yet so difficult to play / win with.

---------------------------

I used to be lower on him.  I have found that as time has gone on I have become higher on Iverson than I was during his playing days. I got frustrated by his selfishness and inefficiency.

Maybe it is just because today's game is so much more selfish than the game in the past, that I no longer view Iverson as selfish today as I did back when he played. I actually enjoy watching old games of his now.

His selfishness is unremarkable next to guys like Harden or Westbrook. His mentality is a joy. His quickness is spectacular. Iverson is team orientated in the way Harden or LeBron is meaning on their terms all the time but willing passers. Iverson is much better off the ball than present day players. He is actually less ball dominant than many present day players. The long minutes he plays are fantastic compared to today's stars who constantly want rest on the bench or skip games entirely due to load management.

[Who]

Kobe Bryant - I actually think Kobe is a top 10 player all time.  But hes viewed today as a top 3, which is bananas to me.  Kobe always benefitted from having the best big men in the sport on his team.  Today people say he beat the Big Three Boston celtics by himself in 2010, which is crazy.  The disrespect that Pau Gasol gets for his role on that team in criminal, and the HUGE role Andrew Bynum played is largely forgotten about, not to mention Lamar Odom.

I am lower on Kobe. I have him in the 10-20 range. Probably 10-15. Due to longevity more than peak.

Interesting thread on RealGM asking if Jokic has already peaked higher than Kobe. I say yes. I don't think Kobe's peak was all that high. He played at a high level for a long time though.

[Who]

anyways, end of rant.  Anyone else have a player from this era who gets legend status thats undeserved?  Curious what other people think, and Im sure some will have problems with my opinions, especially regarding Iverson, but its a good discussion!  and my daughter is watching Cars for the 800th time so it gives me something to do

Chris Webber bugs me. He accomplished so little in his career. He had a good rookie year in GSW. Forces his way out. Goes to Washington. That team tops out as a .500 team. He misses a season and a half with injury. Makes the playofs 1 out of 2 remaining years. The team has problems particularly with lack of leadership and maturity with Webber being one of the major culprits.

He goes to Sacramento with Vlade Divac. They both turn around the franchise yet Webber is the only one who gets credit for it. The team gradually improves around Webber and goes from .500 to 50 win to 60 win team. Peja, Bibby, Hedo, D Christie, Bobby Jackson. Several other role players. Loaded squad. Again, Webber gets a disproportionate amount of credit. He is a chucker who shoots too much, puts up high point totals and gets more acclaim than he deserves.

Despite being almost 10 years into his career, his shot creation is still limited. He has a primitive post game and hook shot. He has a solid but unexceptional face up jump-shot. He lacks go-to offense. He underperforms time and time again as a go-to scorer. Mike Bibby bails him out.

Chris Webber barely played any defense for the first 7-8 years of his career. He only started towards the end of his peak in Sacramento. Then just when he is finally getting going ... injury.

It is all over. Sacramento had one legit title push. Webber gets hurt the next season. Is never the same. Not even a starting caliber player anymore. The definition of an empty stat player from then on.

[greg683x]

anyways, end of rant.  Anyone else have a player from this era who gets legend status thats undeserved?  Curious what other people think, and Im sure some will have problems with my opinions, especially regarding Iverson, but its a good discussion!  and my daughter is watching Cars for the 800th time so it gives me something to do

Chris Webber bugs me. He accomplished so little in his career. He had a good rookie year in GSW. Forces his way out. Goes to Washington. That team tops out as a .500 team. He misses a season and a half with injury. Makes the playofs 1 out of 2 remaining years. The team has problems particularly with lack of leadership and maturity with Webber being one of the major culprits.

He goes to Sacramento with Vlade Divac. They both turn around the franchise yet Webber is the only one who gets credit for it. The team gradually improves around Webber and goes from .500 to 50 win to 60 win team. Peja, Bibby, Hedo, D Christie, Bobby Jackson. Several other role players. Loaded squad. Again, Webber gets a disproportionate amount of credit. He is a chucker who shoots too much, puts up high point totals and gets more acclaim than he deserves.

Despite being almost 10 years into his career, his shot creation is still limited. He has a primitive post game and hook shot. He has a solid but unexceptional face up jump-shot. He lacks go-to offense. He underperforms time and time again as a go-to scorer. Mike Bibby bails him out.

Chris Webber barely played any defense for the first 7-8 years of his career. He only started towards the end of his peak in Sacramento. Then just when he is finally getting going ... injury.

It is all over. Sacramento had one legit title push. Webber gets hurt the next season. Is never the same. Not even a starting caliber player anymore. The definition of an empty stat player from then on.

Webber is a good one, he always had a lot of hype, but would shrink at the biggest stage.  The fact it took him as long as it did to get in the hall of fame makes sense, whether you feel he deserves to be there is a different discussion, ive awlays thought the NBA HOF was kind of a joke

[greg683x]

Kobe Bryant - I actually think Kobe is a top 10 player all time.  But hes viewed today as a top 3, which is bananas to me.  Kobe always benefitted from having the best big men in the sport on his team.  Today people say he beat the Big Three Boston celtics by himself in 2010, which is crazy.  The disrespect that Pau Gasol gets for his role on that team in criminal, and the HUGE role Andrew Bynum played is largely forgotten about, not to mention Lamar Odom.

I am lower on Kobe. I have him in the 10-20 range. Probably 10-15. Due to longevity more than peak.

Interesting thread on RealGM asking if Jokic has already peaked higher than Kobe. I say yes. I don't think Kobe's peak was all that high. He played at a high level for a long time though.

I think if Denver won it all again this year, it would be hard to debate that he hasnt.

I think for the casual basketball fan though, its impossible to over shadow Kobes legendary status.  I feel terrible saying this, but his death seems to have vaulted his legacy to ridiculous proportions.  The same thing happened with Sean Taylor here in Washington DC after he died(on a local level instead of a mainstream level)people view him around here as the best safety of all time, and people think youre crazy if you disagree.  Its very similar to the Paul Bunyan comparison ESPN made with Bo Jackson on his 30/30, the legend will always be so much greater than the reality.

[Moranis]

Reggie Miller is perhaps the most overrated player in league history.  Benefited greatly from a really weak era. His 8 points in 9 seconds was amazing, but that created a mystique and legend that otherwise was not earned.  And the thing is, he wasn't overrated at the time. Just 5 all star games, just 3 3rd Team All NBA, just 2 seasons with mvp votes (13th and 16th), not voted to the original 50 players for 50 years list, etc.

[Who]

Reggie Miller is perhaps the most overrated player in league history.  Benefited greatly from a really weak era. His 8 points in 9 seconds was amazing, but that created a mystique and legend that otherwise was not earned.  And the thing is, he wasn't overrated at the time. Just 5 all star games, just 3 3rd Team All NBA, just 2 seasons with mvp votes (13th and 16th), not voted to the original 50 players for 50 years list, etc.

I don't think failing to make the Top 50 is a knock against him because Reggie was only around the midway point in his career at the time. He made the Finals and two more Conference Finals after the Top 50 was announced.

1 Finals Appearance

5 Conference Finals = 3 of the 5 series went the full 7 games (Knicks 1994, Magic 1995, Bulls 1998), two down to final few mins (Knicks, Bulls). The other two ended in 6 both against the Knicks; one in victory and one in loss.

Best player on all of those teams.

[greg683x]

Reggie Miller is perhaps the most overrated player in league history.  Benefited greatly from a really weak era. His 8 points in 9 seconds was amazing, but that created a mystique and legend that otherwise was not earned.  And the thing is, he wasn't overrated at the time. Just 5 all star games, just 3 3rd Team All NBA, just 2 seasons with mvp votes (13th and 16th), not voted to the original 50 players for 50 years list, etc.

I’m meh on Reggie for the most part as well.  Though his 8pts in 9seconds and also the choke taunt always put a smile on my face bc I hated those knicks teams so much.  Reggie for the most part though I think is largely forgotten about when it comes to the younger generation

[Who]

That is an interesting comparison. Two players mentioned here. Allen Iverson vs Reggie Miller. Who would you have to build a team around for 10-15 years?

Iverson had better individual accolades.
Reggie had better team achievements.

I am leaning Reggie.

[greg683x]

That is an interesting comparison. Two players mentioned here. Allen Iverson vs Reggie Miller. Who would you have to build a team around for 10-15 years?

Iverson had better individual accolades.
Reggie had better team achievements.

I am leaning Reggie.

Definitely Reggie for me, he’s not a ball stopper and can operate in the flow of an offensive system.  He’s a much more efficient scorer too.

Iverson is just give me the ball and get out of the way.