Which player in NBA history played at the highest level over his stats?

[nickagneta]

In the Wes Unseld obituary type thread, there was some discussion about how you couldn't really judge Unseld's contributions to winning just by stats because the stats belied his total effect on the game.

So who do you believe was the player that best exemplified this in NBA history? Today, I guess you might say Draymond Green and someone like Marcus Smart fits this description. But, all-time? Wes Unseld is a great example. I think Dave Cowens might be another. In the 80's I think a good case could be made for Sidney Moncrief.

So who do you think is that player?

When I see enough names, I will add a poll.

[Donoghus]

Rodman is probably up there. 

Ben Wallace comes to mind, also.

[Moranis]

Rodman is probably up there. 

Ben Wallace comes to mind, also.

They both had incredible stats though.  Didn't score, but were just such dominant rebounders it is hard to say they didn't have the stats to back it up. 

[Moranis]

Average Al comes to mind of recent players. 

EDIT: I mean his career best was 18.6 ppg with a career average of 14.  10 rpg just once with a career average of 8.3.  Solid passer for a big man at 3.3 apg for his career but certainly doesn't stand out either.  Only 1.2 bpg and 0.8 spg.  Yet he has never not been on a team making the playoffs.  Best player on a 60 win team.  I mean this question seems like it was made for Al Horford.

[Donoghus]

Rodman is probably up there. 

Ben Wallace comes to mind, also.

They both had incredible stats though.  Didn't score, but were just such dominant rebounders it is hard to say they didn't have the stats to back it up.

That's not what the question is, though.    The stats are certainly there but they still don't belie the total effect these guys had on the game.     Defensive effort alone isn't totally measurable.  A guy thinking twice of driving the lane or simply altering his shot into a bad miss because Wallace anchoring the paint isn't exactly measurable.  However, that's still impacting the game in a way greater than what the stats show.

[PhoSita]

Marc Gasol is a more recent one.  Never cracked 20 pts per game in any season or 10 reb per game in any season.  Never cracked 2 blocks per game.

Despite this, a key member of many very good teams.


Some other names:


Brent Barry
Bruce Bowen
Horace Grant
Manu Ginobili



With the exception of Manu those guys weren't really the core of their team, just really great role players who helped a lot of good teams.



OH --- can't believe I forgot to mention


Average Al!  Horford's had some really nice statistical seasons but I think he's always played above the level of his stats, especially in the latter part of his career.

[wdleehi]

Rasheed Wallace
Danny Ainge

[Donoghus]

Robert Horry.

[johnnygreen]

Scottie Pippen - Had a career high in PPG (22), the season following Michael Jordan playing baseball. His career PPG ended up being 16.1, yet there is no question he remains one of the best players the game has ever seen.

[GreenShooter]

Mo Cheeks. Always wanted him on the C's.

Horace Grant. Bulls needed him.

[GreenShooter]

I voted Dave Cowens because he was an option on the poll.

[Jvalin]

Really hard to say if a player is underrated, unless you've seen him play with your own eyes. I started following basketball in the mid 90's. The first name that comes to mind is Tim Duncan. Imo, he's a GOAT candidate. Obviously, his career averages aren't worthy of a GOAT candidate.

The Spurs during the Timmy era were a very special team. If you ask me, most of their star players at the time were underrated. I mean, Manu Ginobili is definitely underrated! Call me crazy, but I truly believe that Manu at his peak was contributing more to winning (/was helping his team more) than megastars like Kobe-Iverson or superstars like Harden, Westbrook, Carmelo etc. Or how about Kawhi (as a Spur)? The guy was good enough to win Finals MVP, yet he was averaging 12.8 points per game during that season! At the end of the day, the Spurs players were asked to sacrifice their personal numbers for the good of the team. No wonder most of their stars were underrated (at least imo).

Only exception I can think of is Parker whom I believe is overrated, but that's a whole nother story.

[nickagneta]

Really hard to say if a player is underrated, unless you've seen him play with your own eyes. I started following basketball in the mid 90's. The first name that comes to mind is Tim Duncan. Imo, he's a GOAT candidate. Obviously, his career averages aren't worthy of a GOAT candidate.

The Spurs during the Timmy era were a very special team. If you ask me, most of their star players at the time were underrated. I mean, Manu Ginobili is definitely underrated! Call me crazy, but I truly believe that Manu at his peak was contributing more to winning than megastars like Kobe, Iverson or Harden. Or how about Kawhi (as a Spur)? The guy was good enough to win Finals MVP, yet he was averaging 12.8 points per game during that season! At the end of the day, the Spurs players had to sacrifice their personal numbers for the good of the team. No wonder most of their stars were underrated (at least imo).

Only exception I can think of is Parker whom I believe is overrated, but that's a whole nother story.

This really isn't an overrated or underrated thing but more that you would expect the player to contribute to winning at a rate higher than you would believe based on stats.

Tim Duncan through most of his career had amazing stats that you would figure would lead to winning. He did play above his stats but his stats were superstar level.

Ginobili fits better into this type of thing than Duncan, IMHO.

[Roy H.]

Bill Russell.  His PPG and FG% were just okay and there are no stats measuring his blocks and steals.  Looking at box scores alone, you’d conclude that he was a great rebounder, but not the greatest of his era, along with being good but not special elsewhere.

Nothing about that suggests “11 rings, 5 MVPs”.

[nickagneta]

Dennis Johnson and Bobby Jones are others that come to mind from the 80's.