Doc on WEEI: "No one said no" to Perk trade

[blackberry33]

From Red's Army

http://www.redsarmy.com/home/2011/04/doc-on-weei-no-one-said-no-to-perk-trade.html

Doc on WEEI: "No one said no" to Perk trade

I was THIS close to deleting my notes from Doc's weekly WEEI appearance because there was nothing really interesting being said.

Then he was asked about whether the Perkins trade was the right move (here we go).  And to his credit, Doc didn't give a canned answer.  When asked if it was the right move, he said that we'd have to wait and see if it was the right move.  Meaning... if the Celtics win the championship, then it was the right move.  If not, then it might not have been.

When asked, again, about how it all went down (in an effort to see if this is still affecting the guys) Doc said he talked to all the key players about it and no one said no.  Pressed on it and asked specifically if Rajon Rondo was on board, Doc repeated "no one said no."  Obviously the question insinuates Rondo has been p---ed off about the trade and that's the cause of his poor play.  I'm sure Doc's answer is a thinly veiled way of saying it's not.

Yeah... the topic keeps coming up.  And people keep asking and Doc, to his credit (or maybe not) keeps answering.  I hope that this puts and end to the talk...but I know it won't.

Not much else of note from the show other than he thinks Delonte West will play on Sunday.  We don't know about Shaq yet, but its possible.  And when the topic of Kobe's slur came up... the guys jokingly asked what if David Stern had a full-time lip reader on KG?  Doc said "We'd be in trouble."

[Jeff]

remember when you quote a site to put it in quotes and give us a link - thanks

[blackberry33]

remember when you quote a site to put it in quotes and give us a link - thanks

Thought I did that thanks

[Chris]

Yeah, I heard this too.  He had said this previously, but this week they pressed him on it, particularly about Rondo.

He also did say that some of the players were higher on making the trade than others, and some of them had concerns, but still felt they should do it.  But, he was very clear when they asked about Rondo that no one said no to the trade.

[hpantazo]

Sherrod Blakley also said on his Twitter that all this talk of Rondo playing poorly because of the trade is nonsense. I think Rondo has had other issues, injuries or whatever, but it's not the loss of Perkins, people have to get over this.

[ScoobyDoo]

Lets' assume Danny Ainge is a "half decent" NBA GM.

Let's also assume that both Doc Rivers and Danny Ainge have "half decent" basketball minds.

Let's lastly assume that the core of Perkins, Ray, Pierce, Rondo, KG and Baby were a pretty tight group.

Given that Ainge and Doc are fairly smart about basketball and the emotions of it and the emotions players attach to their teammates, does anyone really think that:

A) Ainge and Doc didn't, at a minimum, discuss this trade with Rondo, Pierce, KG & Ray?

B) Probably talk to KENDRICK PERKINS about the possiblity of it?

I don't think that Danny & Doc would be so stupid to think that if they talked to Rondo about it, that he wouldn't then talk to Perkins about it...so I'm sure this possiblity of moving him to OKC came up during the course of potential contract extension discussions.

And you know what, Perkins probably said if you can't meet what I'm looking for financially "I wouldn't mind OKC" as a destination. And he's smart to pick that location - Durant and Ibaka, with Perkins - immediately one of the best front lines in basketball, period.

However, while everyone invloved - the players, coaches & GM's - may understand the mechanics of it, the emotions of it are very different when it actually happens.

it's like when you break up with a chic. Even if you really still don't want to be there, it still stings...

I don't buy the BS that the players didn't know. Ainge and Doc would be complete morons to do it that way and morons they are not...

Rather - it was losing Shaq and Jermaine at the same time after the trade that caused our skid - well, that in addition to our usual late season apathetic play.     

[mgent]

Do players really have a say?  Could Rondo have vetoed the trade?  Could Perk or Nate have vetoed the trade?

It doesn't matter what the players said, I don't think any of them wanted it to happen.

[greenpride32]

Do players really have a say?  Could Rondo have vetoed the trade?  Could Perk or Nate have vetoed the trade?

It doesn't matter what the players said, I don't think any of them wanted it to happen.

No the players don't have say.  Team management consulted the core players out of respect.  Even if the players said no to the trade, management could have still pulled the trigger.

No matter how you feel about the trade and Perk, the C's made the right move.  They have two centers who are better players than Perk; but of course carry question marks on health.  Perk was leaving for sure after this year anyways. 

[clover]

Having 'a say' isn't having authority, but obviously, when consulted, by definition they have 'a say'.

[bbd24]

Who would say no to the trade ?  No brainer, even for the players who aren't GM's.

Your not paying a guy coming off that kind of injury 9 million per.  Not when you bring people off the streets from free agency like Shaq or JO who can match Perkins play or even be better than Perk.  Why lose that kind of money ?  You dump him now and get some value for him, instead of receiving virtually nothing next year.

Most of these players have played against Green and know that at 24, he's just getting his feet wet in this league.  He's a future stud, and you pay studs that kind of money, not a Perkins.  Not when you can line someone up next to KG like Semih Erden and not lose much from what Perkins gave you.

[bbd24]

Do players really have a say?  Could Rondo have vetoed the trade?  Could Perk or Nate have vetoed the trade?

It doesn't matter what the players said, I don't think any of them wanted it to happen.

No the players don't have say.  Team management consulted the core players out of respect.  Even if the players said no to the trade, management could have still pulled the trigger.

No matter how you feel about the trade and Perk, the C's made the right move.  They have two centers who are better players than Perk; but of course carry question marks on health.  Perk was leaving for sure after this year anyways. 

Exactly.  Good post.

Thats what you like about this organization.  Ainge as a gm is on the same page with his coach, and players.  He gives them an opportunity to speak up and his relationship is great with all involved.  Its overlooked but its a great aspect to have in an organization and not every team has it.

No doubt in my mind that of course Doc was consulted, as were the core 4.

[the_Bird]

Who would say no to the trade ?  No brainer, even for the players who aren't GM's.

Your not paying a guy coming off that kind of injury 9 million per.  Not when you bring people off the streets from free agency like Shaq or JO who can match Perkins play or even be better than Perk.  Why lose that kind of money ?  You dump him now and get some value for him, instead of receiving virtually nothing next year.

How much are you paying JO this year?  I'll let you go look it up.

For future reference, Perk's $32M extension over four years is $8M per.  

For those without Google, JO's making an average of $6M per year, this year and next.  You'd rather pay him, or someone like him, $6M per year, than pay Perk $8M?

Hell, add Shaq's $1.4M/year in, and we're paying nearly that same $8M per year for two old, crippled centers.

How much do people REALLY think a decent center costs in the NBA?  You remember how much Brendan ****' Haywood got paid last season?  ****, even Darko got a 4/$20M contract (IIRC).

Seriously, look around one of the sites with salary numbers, and see what middle-of-the-road big men make.  Guys like Nene, or Kaman, or Haywood.  It's usually $10M - $12M per.

[bbd24]

Who would say no to the trade ?  No brainer, even for the players who aren't GM's.

Your not paying a guy coming off that kind of injury 9 million per.  Not when you bring people off the streets from free agency like Shaq or JO who can match Perkins play or even be better than Perk.  Why lose that kind of money ?  You dump him now and get some value for him, instead of receiving virtually nothing next year.

How much are you paying JO this year?  I'll let you go look it up.

For future reference, Perk's $32M extension over four years is $8M per.  

For those without Google, JO's making an average of $6M per year, this year and next.  You'd rather pay him, or someone like him, $6M per year, than pay Perk $8M?

Hell, add Shaq's $1.4M/year in, and we're paying nearly that same $8M per year for two old, crippled centers.

How much do people REALLY think a decent center costs in the NBA?  You remember how much Brendan ****' Haywood got paid last season?

What about the bonuses their paying Perkins ?  The contract is 8 per, don't the bonuses make it 9 per ?  Regardless, I'm not paying him 7, 8, or 9 per.  4 or 5, maybe.

You can call Shaq and JO old and crippled, but your giving Perk 8/9 per when he's missed half the offseason and most of this season ?  After coming off an injury most don't come back 100% from ?

I'll take the gamble and trade him for value now please.  Especially if I'm getting a young 24 yr old with potential, a strong backup for the center position, and a 1st round pick for the future.

[bbd24]

Who would say no to the trade ?  No brainer, even for the players who aren't GM's.

Your not paying a guy coming off that kind of injury 9 million per.  Not when you bring people off the streets from free agency like Shaq or JO who can match Perkins play or even be better than Perk.  Why lose that kind of money ?  You dump him now and get some value for him, instead of receiving virtually nothing next year.

How much are you paying JO this year?  I'll let you go look it up.

For future reference, Perk's $32M extension over four years is $8M per. 

For those without Google, JO's making an average of $6M per year, this year and next.  You'd rather pay him, or someone like him, $6M per year, than pay Perk $8M?

Hell, add Shaq's $1.4M/year in, and we're paying nearly that same $8M per year for two old, crippled centers.

How much do people REALLY think a decent center costs in the NBA?  You remember how much Brendan ****' Haywood got paid last season?  ****, even Darko got a 4/$20M contract (IIRC).

Seriously, look around one of the sites with salary numbers, and see what middle-of-the-road big men make.  Guys like Nene, or Kaman, or Haywood.  It's usually $10M - $12M per.

btw, Shaq (1.3) and JO (5.7) combined are at 7, and still cheaper than Perkins.  All are injury prone, while 1 just came off major knee surgery.  I'll take the 2 for 1.

[mgent]

Wow.  There are still people out there that think this was a good trade?

Then again I didn't even think anybody would be for it when it happened.