Hypothetical Rebuilding Trade

[Moranis]

I don't believe either team does that trade.

I think the Hawks would jump at it.  They essentially have two starting PFs, and they desperately need a PG.  Even without Josh Smith, they'd have offensive options galore to place around Rondo.  They've already forced themselves to try to compete with that ridiculous contract they gave Joe Johnson, so entering rebuild mode is not really an option for them.

While I agree the Hawks are in a win now mode, I disagree they would jump at that trade.  Smith and Horford are very complimentary players and there are like 3 teams in the league where Horford is at a serious disadvantage in the middle.  They also have Hinrich, who is a good fit with Johnson.  Sure Rondo is better then Hinrich, but the difference between Rondo and Hinrich is much smaller then the difference between Smith and Davis, and it isn't close. 

I actually think the Hawks have a strong base.  Hinrich gives that teams something it lacked last year.  Additionally Collins is much improved.  If they can get by the Magic, I think they could beat the Bulls.  They have a well constructed team at the moment.

[vjcsmoke]

I actually think the Hawks have a strong base.  Hinrich gives that teams something it lacked last year.  Additionally Collins is much improved.  If they can get by the Magic, I think they could beat the Bulls.  They have a well constructed team at the moment.

I actually don't care if Atlanta doesn't do the trade.  Because I don't think the trade improves the Celtics either.  Getting smaller does not help this current Celtics squad.  Josh Smith is 6'9 240 lbs.  He does not address the Celtics need to get bigger and obtain a true 5.  The geriatric trio of O'Neal, O'Neal and a white guy named Kristic are NOT the answer at the 5 position.  

Until the Celtics address that need, I don't see how they match up with teams like the Magic, the Lakers, or even the Bulls.  And don't tell me your memory is so short you forgot how an undersized Boozer dominated a soft Celtics middle the minute KG took a breather on the bench?

[PosImpos]

I actually think the Hawks have a strong base.  Hinrich gives that teams something it lacked last year.  Additionally Collins is much improved.  If they can get by the Magic, I think they could beat the Bulls.  They have a well constructed team at the moment.

I actually don't care if Atlanta doesn't do the trade.  Because I don't think the trade improves the Celtics either.  Getting smaller does not help this current Celtics squad.  Josh Smith is 6'9 240 lbs.  He does not address the Celtics need to get bigger and obtain a true 5.  The geriatric trio of O'Neal, O'Neal and a white guy named Kristic are NOT the answer at the 5 position. 

Until the Celtics address that need, I don't see how they match up with teams like the Magic, the Lakers, or even the Bulls.  And don't tell me your memory is so short you forgot how an undersized Boozer dominated a soft Celtics middle the minute KG took a breather on the bench?

If you actually read the original and subsequent posts, you'll see that the point of this trade is not to make the Celtics better in the short term.

[vjcsmoke]

I actually think the Hawks have a strong base.  Hinrich gives that teams something it lacked last year.  Additionally Collins is much improved.  If they can get by the Magic, I think they could beat the Bulls.  They have a well constructed team at the moment.

I actually don't care if Atlanta doesn't do the trade.  Because I don't think the trade improves the Celtics either.  Getting smaller does not help this current Celtics squad.  Josh Smith is 6'9 240 lbs.  He does not address the Celtics need to get bigger and obtain a true 5.  The geriatric trio of O'Neal, O'Neal and a white guy named Kristic are NOT the answer at the 5 position. 

Until the Celtics address that need, I don't see how they match up with teams like the Magic, the Lakers, or even the Bulls.  And don't tell me your memory is so short you forgot how an undersized Boozer dominated a soft Celtics middle the minute KG took a breather on the bench?

If you actually read the original and subsequent posts, you'll see that the point of this trade is not to make the Celtics better in the short term.

It doesn't make the Celtics better period.  Dumping Rondo, a salary controled player, doesn't afford the Celtics enough salary relief that would allow them sign a max contract free agent in 2012 ie Dwight Howard.  In fact Josh Smith's contract doesn't expire until 2013. Nor do the Celtics get bigger in size after this trade which is their true need if they want to get anywhere deep in the playoffs. 

Thinking of ways to make the team worse is easy.  Trading for the sake of trading is not the way to go, especially when you are losing a valuable asset that creates another hole in the process.  Again unless you think Von Wafer is the answer at PG, and I don't, then dumping Rondo for Josh Smith creates more problems than solutions.

[manl_lui]

i rather have both Rondo and Josh Smith, they were friends/teammates in high school so chemistry will build up pretty well

Josh plays good D and would love to see him here

[PosImpos]

I actually think the Hawks have a strong base.  Hinrich gives that teams something it lacked last year.  Additionally Collins is much improved.  If they can get by the Magic, I think they could beat the Bulls.  They have a well constructed team at the moment.

I actually don't care if Atlanta doesn't do the trade.  Because I don't think the trade improves the Celtics either.  Getting smaller does not help this current Celtics squad.  Josh Smith is 6'9 240 lbs.  He does not address the Celtics need to get bigger and obtain a true 5.  The geriatric trio of O'Neal, O'Neal and a white guy named Kristic are NOT the answer at the 5 position. 

Until the Celtics address that need, I don't see how they match up with teams like the Magic, the Lakers, or even the Bulls.  And don't tell me your memory is so short you forgot how an undersized Boozer dominated a soft Celtics middle the minute KG took a breather on the bench?

If you actually read the original and subsequent posts, you'll see that the point of this trade is not to make the Celtics better in the short term.

It doesn't make the Celtics better period.  Dumping Rondo, a salary controled player, doesn't afford the Celtics enough salary relief that would allow them sign a max contract free agent in 2012 ie Dwight Howard.  In fact Josh Smith's contract doesn't expire until 2013. Nor do the Celtics get bigger in size after this trade which is their true need if they want to get anywhere deep in the playoffs. 

Thinking of ways to make the team worse is easy.  Trading for the sake of trading is not the way to go, especially when you are losing a valuable asset that creates another hole in the process.  Again unless you think Von Wafer is the answer at PG, and I don't, then dumping Rondo for Josh Smith creates more problems than solutions.

The trade is proposed with two premises:

1) The Celtics need to look to rebuild, not contend, in the next few years.

2) The Celtics are not going to get a marquee free agent like Dwight Howard.  Marquee free agents will go places like New York / Brooklyn, Chicago, and LA.


Given those two premises, I believe this trade would put the Celtics in a better position moving forward.

[LooseCannon]

That may be true, but part of the problem that I envision is that as long as Rondo is on the team he'll need to be the primary ball handler (that's just his game, he can't do anything else).  He'll need to be the alpha dog.  Whether we like it or not, we'll pretty much be forced to build around him, unless we have the enormous fortune of finding a dominant big man in the draft or free agency.

All that means is that you don't go for a high-usage wing who can't adjust the way Paul Pierce has.  With Rondo, I think you want to get the best two-way big man possible and some three-and-D wings, while filling the other big man slot with solid, cheap role players.

[PosImpos]

That may be true, but part of the problem that I envision is that as long as Rondo is on the team he'll need to be the primary ball handler (that's just his game, he can't do anything else).  He'll need to be the alpha dog.  Whether we like it or not, we'll pretty much be forced to build around him, unless we have the enormous fortune of finding a dominant big man in the draft or free agency.

All that means is that you don't go for a high-usage wing who can't adjust the way Paul Pierce has.  With Rondo, I think you want to get the best two-way big man possible and some three-and-D wings, while filling the other big man slot with solid, cheap role players.

I'm just not confident building a team around a primary ball handler who can't score - regardless of who gets put around him.  Our offense would be so much more potent if Rondo was even half as offensively talented as Chris Paul, Steve Nash, and Deron Williams are.

If our offense truly sucks at times with Rondo at the helm even though we have 3 future Hall of Famers (who are each among the best jumpshooters at their positions), I don't even want to think about how ugly it'll be when Rondo is head-and-shoulders the best guy on the team.

[greenhead85]

For me, Rondo's situation of either getting traded or moved will largely depend on his performance in this playoffs. He's improved on his jumpshot though it remains unreliable still. The current playoffs will be the deciding factor.

[Garnett Crushes Gasoft]

Lets Get JR Smith off the bench for now to go with Green and possibly howard in a year? . Natural way to ease the load of the big 3

[mgent]

The only way I would want Josh Smith is if we had Rondo.  I couldn't think of anybody besides maybe Dwight Howard I'd rather have catching a lob.  He's the only guy that's played with Rondo too right? (other than ex-Celtics)

[Celticsfan336]

Terrible trade in my opinion. Rondo is a top 3 pg, and we locked him up for a very good price.

Also, I know this is a hypothetical trade....but if the Celtics get knocked by the Miami Heat, it will probably be in 7 or so games in a tight series, and they will never trade their core because they will be contenders next year...especially with a limited season. I'd say they dont start rebuilding until after Ray and KGs contract expired. And they will never trade Rondo, especially not for Josh Smith.

Rebuilding would mean getting jeff green and rondo and scoring a 90+ million FA. It all depends if KG and Ray and Paul will either retire, be bench players, cassell type or washed up starters. Tough to predict these type of things, and I dont think its the right time to predict rebuilding ya know? we are in the drivers seat for banner 18.

[birdwatcher]

Sorry--I want nothing to do with Josh Smith. There's plenty of soft jumping jacks out there that we wouldn't need to give up our starting, All-star PG for. If you don't think the team has a chance this year, you'd be setting them up for the lottery for years to come with this trade.

[PosImpos]

If you don't think the team has a chance this year, you'd be setting them up for the lottery for years to come with this trade.

Um . . . that's the whole point.

Also, J-Smith is much more than a soft jumping jack.  He's one of the best defensive bigs in the league and a terrific athlete with a large offensive repertoire.  


Many of the people responding to this thread seem to be missing the most basic yet important premise, that rebuilding around Rondo is a bad idea.  You may disagree, but that's where I'm coming from in proposing this trade (or any other trade like it).

[birdwatcher]

If you don't think the team has a chance this year, you'd be setting them up for the lottery for years to come with this trade.

Um . . . that's the whole point.

Also, J-Smith is much more than a soft jumping jack.  He's one of the best defensive bigs in the league and a terrific athlete with a large offensive repertoire.  


Many of the people responding to this thread seem to be missing the most basic yet important premise, that rebuilding around Rondo is a bad idea.  You may disagree, but that's where I'm coming from in proposing this trade (or any other trade like it).

Well if that's the point, we can surely tank better than that!!