Hypothetical Rebuilding Trade

[Who]

DeMarcus Cousins

(1) Offense -- 14.1ppg in 28.5mpg but shot only 43% from the field and had a TS% of 48%. He was also prone to turnovers averaging 3.3 turnovers in only 28 and a half minutes a game. On a per possession basis, that meant he was scoring about 0.78 points per possession which is ridiculously bad.

Cousins is a very talented offensive weapon but his shot selection and decision making on the court is atrocious and that is not going to change overnight. That will take time. Too much time for a team who's window is closing. 

(2) Defensively -- Cousins can't the four or the five at an effective and he is a pathetic team defender who is constantly caught out of position and forced into poor fouls.

(3) Rebounding -- Cousins is an elite rebounder.

The guy just has too many flaws defensively and offensively to help his team win (right now). That is why Sacramento was unable to take a step forward this season and actually lost a game more this season than last year despite adding a quality big man like Sam Dalembert to the mix.

[PosImpos]

That will take time. Too much time for a team who's window is closing. 

In all likelihood, though, the Celtics' window is closed.  The only way I see this team competing for a title after this season is if next season is seriously shortened so that the vets can keep focus and their health the whole time and finish with a really good record.  Even then, the younger teams are only getting better while the Celtics aren't.

So whether a trade improves the team in the short term should not be a consideration except as a bad thing.

[Fan from VT]

Some other potential ones:

Rondo+BabyFiller for Jrue Holiday, Speights, Brand
(Philly probably likes Jrue too much, but he's really young, really good and they get out of Brand's deal!)

Rondo+Filler for Andre Miller, a reasonably extended Oden, and a pick or rights to swap picks
(Miller is probably an upgrade with how our team is constructed next year; homerun swing for the rebuild effort/championship run next year with Oden over Rondo)

Rondo for Stuckey/Monroe/Filler
(Dumars already overvalued his own guys, so I think he says no).

Rondo for Devin Harris/Favors
(Harris does a lot of what Rondo does but not as good a passer; but KG/Pierce can do a lot of that. Hinges on how much you think Favors could be an effective Rebound/Defensive big next to KG for a year then rebuild.)

[Fafnir]

That will take time. Too much time for a team who's window is closing. 

In all likelihood, though, the Celtics' window is closed.  The only way I see this team competing for a title after this season is if next season is seriously shortened so that the vets can keep focus and their health the whole time and finish with a really good record.  Even then, the younger teams are only getting better while the Celtics aren't.

So whether a trade improves the team in the short term should not be a consideration except as a bad thing.

The C's are contenders still this year, and especially in a shortened season could be again next year.

We have a natural rebuilding clock when Ray/KG expire, I don't see the need to speed that up.

[Fan from VT]

DeMarcus Cousins

(1) Offense -- 14.1ppg in 28.5mpg but shot only 43% from the field and had a TS% of 48%. He was also prone to turnovers averaging 3.3 turnovers in only 28 and a half minutes a game. On a per possession basis, that meant he was scoring about 0.78 points per possession which is ridiculously bad.

Cousins is a very talented offensive weapon but his shot selection and decision making on the court is atrocious and that is not going to change overnight. That will take time. Too much time for a team who's window is closing. 

(2) Defensively -- Cousins can't the four or the five at an effective and he is a pathetic team defender who is constantly caught out of position and forced into poor fouls.

(3) Rebounding -- Cousins is an elite rebounder.

The guy just has too many flaws defensively and offensively to help his team win (right now). That is why Sacramento was unable to take a step forward this season and actually lost a game more this season than last year despite adding a quality big man like Sam Dalembert to the mix.

I will say that, contrary to conventional wisdom, poor offensive play due to turnovers is a GOOD thing as a rookie, as it is one skill that tends generally to really correct in year two, if you're playing odds. I don't see him, at his size, staying in the .430 range, especially on a good team. Think of the looks that baby gets, and think of Cousins taking all those. He's got the same quality 15 footer as Davis, and a much much much higher likelihood of finishing inside.

[dtrader]

I find the number of trade threads created in the last few days to be really frustrating   

It's like when your team is about to get on the court at the park, and you're already talking to people on the sidelines to pick you up if (when) you lose...total lack of confidence

[the_Bird]

That will take time. Too much time for a team who's window is closing. 

In all likelihood, though, the Celtics' window is closed.  The only way I see this team competing for a title after this season is if next season is seriously shortened so that the vets can keep focus and their health the whole time and finish with a really good record.  Even then, the younger teams are only getting better while the Celtics aren't.

So whether a trade improves the team in the short term should not be a consideration except as a bad thing.

The C's are contenders still this year, and especially in a shortened season could be again next year.

We have a natural rebuilding clock when Ray/KG expire, I don't see the need to speed that up.

Those are also two very big, expiring contracts that might be useful in trade purposes, especially if you don't think you'll have much cap space in 2012 (either because the CBA changes the rules significantly, or you're resigned Green and/or BBD).

A lot hinges on the next couple of weeks.  If the C's can make it at least to the ECF and put up a good fight, they may keep the band together for one last fight.  If they get upset by NY or get knocked silly in round 2, it's all over except the crying.

[PosImpos]

That will take time. Too much time for a team who's window is closing. 

In all likelihood, though, the Celtics' window is closed.  The only way I see this team competing for a title after this season is if next season is seriously shortened so that the vets can keep focus and their health the whole time and finish with a really good record.  Even then, the younger teams are only getting better while the Celtics aren't.

So whether a trade improves the team in the short term should not be a consideration except as a bad thing.

The C's are contenders still this year, and especially in a shortened season could be again next year.

We have a natural rebuilding clock when Ray/KG expire, I don't see the need to speed that up.

Keep in mind that the premise for this thread is that the Celtics got bounced in the first or second round of the playoffs. If that were the case, I think it would be safe to say that the window were closed, and major changes would be coming one way or another.

[Fafnir]

DeMarcus Cousins

(1) Offense -- 14.1ppg in 28.5mpg but shot only 43% from the field and had a TS% of 48%. He was also prone to turnovers averaging 3.3 turnovers in only 28 and a half minutes a game. On a per possession basis, that meant he was scoring about 0.78 points per possession which is ridiculously bad.

Cousins is a very talented offensive weapon but his shot selection and decision making on the court is atrocious and that is not going to change overnight. That will take time. Too much time for a team who's window is closing. 

(2) Defensively -- Cousins can't the four or the five at an effective and he is a pathetic team defender who is constantly caught out of position and forced into poor fouls.

(3) Rebounding -- Cousins is an elite rebounder.

The guy just has too many flaws defensively and offensively to help his team win (right now). That is why Sacramento was unable to take a step forward this season and actually lost a game more this season than last year despite adding a quality big man like Sam Dalembert to the mix.

I will say that, contrary to conventional wisdom, poor offensive play due to turnovers is a GOOD thing as a rookie, as it is one skill that tends generally to really correct in year two, if you're playing odds. I don't see him, at his size, staying in the .430 range, especially on a good team. Think of the looks that baby gets, and think of Cousins taking all those. He's got the same quality 15 footer as Davis, and a much much much higher likelihood of finishing inside.

Its not a good thing, its just one of the areas most players improve upon. Bad shot selection however, that can stay with a player forever.

Here's to you Baron Davis!

[Fan from VT]

I find the number of trade threads created in the last few days to be really frustrating   

It's like when your team is about to get on the court at the park, and you're already talking to people on the sidelines to pick you up if (when) you lose...total lack of confidence

Don't worry once the games start again you won't be forced to follow links to threads you don't want to read

[Fan from VT]

DeMarcus Cousins

(1) Offense -- 14.1ppg in 28.5mpg but shot only 43% from the field and had a TS% of 48%. He was also prone to turnovers averaging 3.3 turnovers in only 28 and a half minutes a game. On a per possession basis, that meant he was scoring about 0.78 points per possession which is ridiculously bad.

Cousins is a very talented offensive weapon but his shot selection and decision making on the court is atrocious and that is not going to change overnight. That will take time. Too much time for a team who's window is closing. 

(2) Defensively -- Cousins can't the four or the five at an effective and he is a pathetic team defender who is constantly caught out of position and forced into poor fouls.

(3) Rebounding -- Cousins is an elite rebounder.

The guy just has too many flaws defensively and offensively to help his team win (right now). That is why Sacramento was unable to take a step forward this season and actually lost a game more this season than last year despite adding a quality big man like Sam Dalembert to the mix.

I will say that, contrary to conventional wisdom, poor offensive play due to turnovers is a GOOD thing as a rookie, as it is one skill that tends generally to really correct in year two, if you're playing odds. I don't see him, at his size, staying in the .430 range, especially on a good team. Think of the looks that baby gets, and think of Cousins taking all those. He's got the same quality 15 footer as Davis, and a much much much higher likelihood of finishing inside.

Its not a good thing, its just one of the areas most players improve upon. Bad shot selection however, that can stay with a player forever.

Here's to you Baron Davis!

Correct, thanks. I should have said good "SIGN", not "THING." it's a promising sign looking forward.

[Who]

That will take time. Too much time for a team who's window is closing. 

In all likelihood, though, the Celtics' window is closed.  The only way I see this team competing for a title after this season is if next season is seriously shortened so that the vets can keep focus and their health the whole time and finish with a really good record.  Even then, the younger teams are only getting better while the Celtics aren't.

So whether a trade improves the team in the short term should not be a consideration except as a bad thing.

The C's are contenders still this year, and especially in a shortened season could be again next year.

We have a natural rebuilding clock when Ray/KG expire, I don't see the need to speed that up.

Keep in mind that the premise for this thread is that the Celtics got bounced in the first or second round of the playoffs. If that were the case, I think it would be safe to say that the window were closed, and major changes would be coming one way or another.

I wouldn't necessarily blow up the team if they lost to Miami in the second round.

Miami is a great team.

[the_Bird]

That will take time. Too much time for a team who's window is closing. 

In all likelihood, though, the Celtics' window is closed.  The only way I see this team competing for a title after this season is if next season is seriously shortened so that the vets can keep focus and their health the whole time and finish with a really good record.  Even then, the younger teams are only getting better while the Celtics aren't.

So whether a trade improves the team in the short term should not be a consideration except as a bad thing.

The C's are contenders still this year, and especially in a shortened season could be again next year.

We have a natural rebuilding clock when Ray/KG expire, I don't see the need to speed that up.

Keep in mind that the premise for this thread is that the Celtics got bounced in the first or second round of the playoffs. If that were the case, I think it would be safe to say that the window were closed, and major changes would be coming one way or another.

I wouldn't necessarily blow up the team if they lost to Miami in the second round.

Miami is a great team.

If they lose in a close series, maybe.  If they get wiped in five games, you blow it up. 

The Celtics core (outside of Rondo) is almost certainly going to get worse, just based on age.  The Heat are most likely going to get better next year based on their likely spending the MLE on a decent big guy (and the fact that their Big Three are still going to be in their prime).   

Chicago's not likely to regress, either. 

Unless the C's are REAL close to a title this year, they've got to think long and hard about starting over fresh.

[More Banners]

That will take time. Too much time for a team who's window is closing. 

In all likelihood, though, the Celtics' window is closed.  The only way I see this team competing for a title after this season is if next season is seriously shortened so that the vets can keep focus and their health the whole time and finish with a really good record.  Even then, the younger teams are only getting better while the Celtics aren't.

So whether a trade improves the team in the short term should not be a consideration except as a bad thing.

The C's are contenders still this year, and especially in a shortened season could be again next year.

We have a natural rebuilding clock when Ray/KG expire, I don't see the need to speed that up.

Keep in mind that the premise for this thread is that the Celtics got bounced in the first or second round of the playoffs. If that were the case, I think it would be safe to say that the window were closed, and major changes would be coming one way or another.

I wouldn't necessarily blow up the team if they lost to Miami in the second round.

Miami is a great team.

If they lose in a close series, maybe.  If they get wiped in five games, you blow it up. 

The Celtics core (outside of Rondo) is almost certainly going to get worse, just based on age.  The Heat are most likely going to get better next year based on their likely spending the MLE on a decent big guy (and the fact that their Big Three are still going to be in their prime).   

Chicago's not likely to regress, either. 

Unless the C's are REAL close to a title this year, they've got to think long and hard about starting over fresh.

I agree completely.  I think a 5 game loss in the playoffs would be a pertty bad sign, and would probably indicate a need for a significant upgrade (or three).

And we can talk about battling Miami or Chicago to a standoff, but the Knicks have enough firepower and quickness to be dangerous.  We might have a first-round dogfight on our hands...

[vjcsmoke]

I'm not trading Rondo for Josh Smith and a pick.  That's making your team worse and creating another hole, who's going to play PG now, Von Wafer?  Please, I hope you're not serious.  Because it's really hard to find an elite PG in the NBA.  Rondo is a top 5 PG at worst a top 10 guy.

The Celtics need a 5 now, that's it, end of story.  Trading Perk early, probably had to happen because of contract issues but that's really their only need now.  Green backs up Pierce/Ray.  Baby backs up the 4/5.  Our only position of need is the 5 so let's address that issue.  Josh Smith does NOT play the 5 so trading for him is an instant nonstarter.