Further discussions on THE trade

[LB3533]

Whoa, I saw "THE trade" and I thought this was a place I could discuss Walker for Lafrentz exchange. Boy, do I have egg on my face.

PS: Don't sleep on Jiri Welsh guys, he's a steal!

That Mavs deal was the worst Celtic trade in the last decade.

There is no comparison with the Perk deal than with the Walker trade.

[Mr October]

TP. I feel like clawing my eyes out every time i see another trade/green vs perks thread.

[StartOrien]

Whoa, I saw "THE trade" and I thought this was a place I could discuss Walker for Lafrentz exchange. Boy, do I have egg on my face.

PS: Don't sleep on Jiri Welsh guys, he's a steal!

That Mavs deal was the worst Celtic trade in the last decade.

There is no comparison with the Perk deal than with the Walker trade.

That deal netted us Jiri Welsch, who netted us a first round pick, which we used to select Delonte West, who netted us Ray Allen who was instrumental to us winning the championship. Seems like a steal to me.

[LB3533]

I was and still am in favor of the trade. It was the right decision in my opinion.

Will the performance justify the decision...maybe and maybe not.

Both Nenad and Jeff need to give us more...if they continue to under perform but help us in the Finals (when we get there), I could still understand arguments against the deal.

But it's only been 2 playoff games, there are still at least 4 games left.

[Chris]

Whoa, I saw "THE trade" and I thought this was a place I could discuss Walker for Lafrentz exchange. Boy, do I have egg on my face.

PS: Don't sleep on Jiri Welsh guys, he's a steal!

That Mavs deal was the worst Celtic trade in the last decade.

There is no comparison with the Perk deal than with the Walker trade.

That deal netted us Jiri Welsch, who netted us a first round pick, which we used to select Delonte West, who netted us Ray Allen who was instrumental to us winning the championship. Seems like a steal to me.

Actually, Jiri was traded to the Cavs for the first rounder that was later traded to the Suns for Rajon Rondo.

They did get West (and/or Tony Allen) from a pick that came from that trade though, but I forget the details.

[StartOrien]

Whoa, I saw "THE trade" and I thought this was a place I could discuss Walker for Lafrentz exchange. Boy, do I have egg on my face.

PS: Don't sleep on Jiri Welsh guys, he's a steal!

That Mavs deal was the worst Celtic trade in the last decade.

There is no comparison with the Perk deal than with the Walker trade.

That deal netted us Jiri Welsch, who netted us a first round pick, which we used to select Delonte West, who netted us Ray Allen who was instrumental to us winning the championship. Seems like a steal to me.

Actually, Jiri was traded to the Cavs for the first rounder that was later traded to the Suns for Rajon Rondo.

They did get West (and/or Tony Allen) from a pick that came from that trade though, but I forget the details.

In short, we got Delonte West, Tony Allen, Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green and Ray Allen all from that trade.

[bbd24]

I have never been so completely unhappy to have been so completely right about something so immediately after it happened, and so thoroughly.   

This isn't supposed to be happening.  Jeff Green was supposed to be mostly good. Krstic was supposed to not be able to play defense but do something useful.

I take it back. I was wrong about this trade. I thought this trade would be bad overall, but would have pros and cons.

It has been a disaster.  I thought this trade would be kinda like a messy room. It would get cleaned up and would work, but it would be a pain.  But this is like the BP oil spill and Danny Ainge is Obama.  Where is he?  He's fiddling on Martha's Vineyard. He's on WEEI saying he'd still do this trade.  Doesn't the BYU honor code prohibit him from lying? 

When I heard about this trade I felt like somebody punched me in the gut and the news flash was some sort of hoax. I didn't like it. So I'm consistent.

Because I bleed green I tried to talk myself into it with all of the "best player in the trade" (!!!) nonsense. No more have to take Perk out in crunch time because he's a liability on offense, etc.

Then I have simply observed the input of my senses, and adjusted my thoughts accordingly. Which was that this is the worst trade I've seen in watching the Celtics for almost 30 years.

Did Danny panic when Perk hurt his other knee? And if so, should we blame Dr. McKeon, as the earlier commenter suggested? At any rate, we're not going to win anything this year. That doesn't make me a disloyal fan. Just a disgusted one that we flushed 18 a chance - not a guarantee - but a chance - at 18 down the toilet. Because we have no chance right now.

I don't think it was about Danny panicking about anything. He was just doing his job as a GM.

He just asked himself, am I willing to pay Perkins going forward 7/8/9 Million per or not ?  If the answer to that question is NO, than you trade him now before the deadline for value.  That way you don't wind up with virtually nothing for him next year.  The value you receive today far outweighs what it is next year.  So if your answer to that same question was NO, and you were GM and in Danny's shoes, you would of traded him as well.  No question.

There were other things involved with it (health of team, Perkins at the time), but those didn't mean it was a panick move.  They just added to the easy equation. Great move once you add up all that was involved (Shaq/JO better than Perk, Perks health, Perks contract or asking price going forward, Perk not guaranteed to even be healthy this year).

[GreenEnvy]

I have never been so completely unhappy to have been so completely right about something so immediately after it happened, and so thoroughly.   

This isn't supposed to be happening.  Jeff Green was supposed to be mostly good. Krstic was supposed to not be able to play defense but do something useful.

I take it back. I was wrong about this trade. I thought this trade would be bad overall, but would have pros and cons.

It has been a disaster.  I thought this trade would be kinda like a messy room. It would get cleaned up and would work, but it would be a pain.  But this is like the BP oil spill and Danny Ainge is Obama.  Where is he?  He's fiddling on Martha's Vineyard. He's on WEEI saying he'd still do this trade.  Doesn't the BYU honor code prohibit him from lying? 

When I heard about this trade I felt like somebody punched me in the gut and the news flash was some sort of hoax. I didn't like it. So I'm consistent.

Because I bleed green I tried to talk myself into it with all of the "best player in the trade" (!!!) nonsense. No more have to take Perk out in crunch time because he's a liability on offense, etc.

Then I have simply observed the input of my senses, and adjusted my thoughts accordingly. Which was that this is the worst trade I've seen in watching the Celtics for almost 30 years.

Did Danny panic when Perk hurt his other knee? And if so, should we blame Dr. McKeon, as the earlier commenter suggested? At any rate, we're not going to win anything this year. That doesn't make me a disloyal fan. Just a disgusted one that we flushed 18 a chance - not a guarantee - but a chance - at 18 down the toilet. Because we have no chance right now.

I don't think it was about Danny panicking about anything. He was just doing his job as a GM.

He just asked himself, am I willing to pay Perkins going forward 7/8/9 Million per or not ?  If the answer to that question is NO, than you trade him now before the deadline for value.  That way you don't wind up with virtually nothing for him next year.  The value you receive today far outweighs what it is next year.  So if your answer to that same question was NO, and you were GM and in Danny's shoes, you would of traded him as well.  No question.

There were other things involved with it (health of team, Perkins at the time), but those didn't mean it was a panick move.  They just added to the easy equation. Great move once you add up all that was involved (Shaq/JO better than Perk, Perks health, Perks contract or asking price going forward, Perk not guaranteed to even be healthy this year).

The major debate here is just that. Assuming DA was not willing to pay Perk what he wanted (for whatever reason), is getting something, anything back in return worth perhaps not winning a championship.

To me, it far more complicated because of all the injuries.

Had Marquis been healthy, maybe he stands put. Had Shaq and Jermaine been healthy post-trade, and we win .700% of our games, maybe nobody complains.

The fact is Ainge had a decision to make, and that is why he is GM and gets paid the big bucks. He is privy to far more information than us at CB are aware of.

I'm sure he weighed ALL his options before pulling the trigger. I doubt Green fell into his lap and he said what the heck, why not go in this direction.

There was more of a reason to move Ray at the deadline last year when the team was playing terrible. He stayed put and look how close we came. He felt the roster would be better post-trade than it was before.


I know if everyone was healthy now, and we had Shaq, JO, and Perk all available, more than half the people on here would be crucifying Ainge for keeping JO/BBD and not having an adequate backup to Pierce. Marquis' injury forced DA to do something, and Perk had the best value that he was willing to move, along with good reason to believe we would have BOTH O'Neal's to fill Perk's absence.

[Chris]

Whoa, I saw "THE trade" and I thought this was a place I could discuss Walker for Lafrentz exchange. Boy, do I have egg on my face.

PS: Don't sleep on Jiri Welsh guys, he's a steal!

That Mavs deal was the worst Celtic trade in the last decade.

There is no comparison with the Perk deal than with the Walker trade.

That deal netted us Jiri Welsch, who netted us a first round pick, which we used to select Delonte West, who netted us Ray Allen who was instrumental to us winning the championship. Seems like a steal to me.

Actually, Jiri was traded to the Cavs for the first rounder that was later traded to the Suns for Rajon Rondo.

They did get West (and/or Tony Allen) from a pick that came from that trade though, but I forget the details.

In short, we got Delonte West, Tony Allen, Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green and Ray Allen all from that trade.

I missed the Jeff Green part.  How was he part of it?  Also, Allen is more than a stretch, since Delonte was basically a throw-in.

[Roy H.]

Whoa, I saw "THE trade" and I thought this was a place I could discuss Walker for Lafrentz exchange. Boy, do I have egg on my face.

PS: Don't sleep on Jiri Welsh guys, he's a steal!

That Mavs deal was the worst Celtic trade in the last decade.

There is no comparison with the Perk deal than with the Walker trade.

That deal netted us Jiri Welsch, who netted us a first round pick, which we used to select Delonte West, who netted us Ray Allen who was instrumental to us winning the championship. Seems like a steal to me.

Actually, Jiri was traded to the Cavs for the first rounder that was later traded to the Suns for Rajon Rondo.

They did get West (and/or Tony Allen) from a pick that came from that trade though, but I forget the details.

In short, we got Delonte West, Tony Allen, Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green and Ray Allen all from that trade.

I missed the Jeff Green part.  How was he part of it?  Also, Allen is more than a stretch, since Delonte was basically a throw-in.

Also, we got Tony Allen in the Detroit / Rasheed deal.

[StartOrien]

Bottom Line:

Jiri Welsh won this team a championship.

Indisputable.

[LB3533]

Perk was not an AS caliber player like Toine was and we traded an AS for an injured contract albatross.

We certainly got more value back with the Perk trade.

Jeff Green is more talented and athletically gifted than Tony Allen and D West combined.

[bbd24]

I have never been so completely unhappy to have been so completely right about something so immediately after it happened, and so thoroughly.   

This isn't supposed to be happening.  Jeff Green was supposed to be mostly good. Krstic was supposed to not be able to play defense but do something useful.

I take it back. I was wrong about this trade. I thought this trade would be bad overall, but would have pros and cons.

It has been a disaster.  I thought this trade would be kinda like a messy room. It would get cleaned up and would work, but it would be a pain.  But this is like the BP oil spill and Danny Ainge is Obama.  Where is he?  He's fiddling on Martha's Vineyard. He's on WEEI saying he'd still do this trade.  Doesn't the BYU honor code prohibit him from lying? 

When I heard about this trade I felt like somebody punched me in the gut and the news flash was some sort of hoax. I didn't like it. So I'm consistent.

Because I bleed green I tried to talk myself into it with all of the "best player in the trade" (!!!) nonsense. No more have to take Perk out in crunch time because he's a liability on offense, etc.

Then I have simply observed the input of my senses, and adjusted my thoughts accordingly. Which was that this is the worst trade I've seen in watching the Celtics for almost 30 years.

Did Danny panic when Perk hurt his other knee? And if so, should we blame Dr. McKeon, as the earlier commenter suggested? At any rate, we're not going to win anything this year. That doesn't make me a disloyal fan. Just a disgusted one that we flushed 18 a chance - not a guarantee - but a chance - at 18 down the toilet. Because we have no chance right now.

I don't think it was about Danny panicking about anything. He was just doing his job as a GM.

He just asked himself, am I willing to pay Perkins going forward 7/8/9 Million per or not ?  If the answer to that question is NO, than you trade him now before the deadline for value.  That way you don't wind up with virtually nothing for him next year.  The value you receive today far outweighs what it is next year.  So if your answer to that same question was NO, and you were GM and in Danny's shoes, you would of traded him as well.  No question.

There were other things involved with it (health of team, Perkins at the time), but those didn't mean it was a panick move.  They just added to the easy equation. Great move once you add up all that was involved (Shaq/JO better than Perk, Perks health, Perks contract or asking price going forward, Perk not guaranteed to even be healthy this year).

The major debate here is just that. Assuming DA was not willing to pay Perk what he wanted (for whatever reason), is getting something, anything back in return worth perhaps not winning a championship.
To me, it far more complicated because of all the injuries.

Had Marquis been healthy, maybe he stands put. Had Shaq and Jermaine been healthy post-trade, and we win .700% of our games, maybe nobody complains.

The fact is Ainge had a decision to make, and that is why he is GM and gets paid the big bucks. He is privy to far more information than us at CB are aware of.

I'm sure he weighed ALL his options before pulling the trigger. I doubt Green fell into his lap and he said what the heck, why not go in this direction.

There was more of a reason to move Ray at the deadline last year when the team was playing terrible. He stayed put and look how close we came. He felt the roster would be better post-trade than it was before.


I know if everyone was healthy now, and we had Shaq, JO, and Perk all available, more than half the people on here would be crucifying Ainge for keeping JO/BBD and not having an adequate backup to Pierce. Marquis' injury forced DA to do something, and Perk had the best value that he was willing to move, along with good reason to believe we would have BOTH O'Neal's to fill Perk's absence.

That championship was/is never guaranteed, with or without Perkins.  So in this case, it was worth it.  The value you received today is far superior to anything your looking for next year. You risk it based on the entire equation, and the fact you had players in place that were just as good, if not better than Perkins.

[SHAQATTACK]

I disagree with above post..totally., I liked our chances better with BOTH O'Neals and PERK on the team.

[bbd24]

I disagree with above post..totally., I liked our chances better with BOTH O'Neals and PERK on the team.

So who do you have coming off the bench for Pierce ?  Sasha ?

Do you like those chances too ?

How are you dividing up the minutes ? All 3 bigs can't play at the same time in the playoffs.  One of those is the odd man out minutes wise, unless your taking KG out in his place ?  Do you have BBD sitting out the playoffs as well (which might not be a bad idea at this point) ? or is JO the odd man out ?

I assume you have West coming in for Rondo, because Nate Robinson isn't playing ? Are you giving Wafer playoff minutes for Allen, or using the West/Rondo combo, while Sasha plays 3 man ?  West slides over for Rondo once Allen returns.

I 'totally' like our chances with BOTH O'neals, Green and Krstic, and I especially like the 1st round Clipper Pick going forward.  And Ainge agrees with me. So were covered for now and beyond, how about you ?

You have 3 starting Centers, all 3 injured at the time of the trade, and no backup to speak of for Pierce.  And nothing for the future.