CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: droopdog7 on November 07, 2018, 09:37:25 AM
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I’ve been hunting at this for a while now but I think it’s time to just say it. Whether we would move rozier for limited but very good shooter or Brown for a better sharpshooter, the mix of one on one players is no balanced enough. I have little faith that our bench will be better than average because of its make up. A little more faith in the starters but either way, we need a guy that is content to stand in the corner and shoot the ball and is very good at it.
As it is, we don’t have even one player that does that. Lots of good shooter but no pure shooter save maybe Kyrie.
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how much is Kyle Korver worth?
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Hayward and Tatum have both been the culprits of poor shooting on wide open shots and add Rozier who has regressed as much as Marcus M has improved.
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If players would simply hit their wide open shots(I think we are worse in the league at shots with a defender 6+ feet away) there is no need for a sharpshooter. Every single on off our starters can shoot 40% from three. They just haven't this year. Let the offense gel and wait for the guys to start hitting those wide open shots. You will see, there is no need for a sharpshooter, never mind trading a stud like Jaylen for one.
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Noway around it. Our players did not come prepared for this season.
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If players would simply hit their wide open shots(I think we are worse in the league at shots with a defender 6+ feet away) there is no need for a sharpshooter. Every single on off our starters can shoot 40% from three. They just haven't this year. Let the offense gel and wait for the guys to start hitting those wide open shots. You will see, there is no need for a sharpshooter, never mind trading a stud like Jaylen for one.
This is my point though. We don’t have any player whose game is to spot up and shoot. And perhaps asking players who may not be comfortable doing that is why they aren’t shooting to their potential.
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Do not move Brown for a sharpshooter. His defense on the other teams best perimeter player is to important.
If Rozier doesn't improve in his current role (meaning he needs to play more of a starter to be effective) maybe move him for a shooter.
But I don't think it is that big of a weakness.
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Let’s get Kyle Korver! Wanamaker and cash for Korver. Does that work?
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I never understand what really defines a 'sharp shooter'.
All five of our starters are capable of shooting the three at 40% or better, and they probably will be by the end of the season.
Korver is maybe slightly better percentage-wise? But he's more of a one-dimensional player.
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I'm not sure we need a sharpshooter. We just need the good shooters we have to shoot better. Most sharpshooters can't play defense, so we fix one problem and create another problem.
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I never understand what really defines a 'sharp shooter'.
All five of our starters are capable of shooting the three at 40% or better, and they probably will be by the end of the season.
Korver is maybe slightly better percentage-wise? But he's more of a one-dimensional player.
Ray Allen is a sharp shooter for example.
I use this comparision to point out the difference between a Jaylen Brown shooting a high percentage , and a real spot up shooter like Ray Allen.
Ray Allen was a spot up shooter but could also drive to the basket , just like Jaylen can.
Problem is that Ray Allen is a true spot up shooter, no hesitation wide open not wide open jump shot maker.
The Jaylen Browns and Taytum are rythym guys, they wont shoot "spot" up shooter shots, they hesistate , they make worse decisions like moving in for jumpers or stepping back etc. Real spot up shooters catch and shoot, either off the pick , or finding a spot and getting the ball.
This team can continue to trot out Brown, Taytum and Hayward, but im telling you as a long time fan of basketball,
This will not hold up. One of them will go, or maybe even two , for a big time big man.
For the time being , one of these guys should become a spot up shooter, because the chemistry , the style of play, and the number of shots are far in between. One guy would need to become a spot up shooter in order to balance this out, or we will have a lot of unhappy players, especially Hayward then going to Brown. Tatum would be the least because he knows hes starting out.
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This mantra bothers me almost as much as the "we need a rim protector". Irving, Brown, Tatum, and Hayward are some of the best shooters in the league based on historical 3pt%. Then our second tier is Rozier, Morris, and Horford, all serviceable shooters. I disagree that we need more shooting.
We need more depth with our bigs. We have Jason Tatum, a skinny wing, starting at PF. Our depth at big after Horford is Baynes, Williams, Yabusele, and Ojeleye. We have one starting caliber big and then a scrap heap. Morris is really a swing, more a big than Tatum but still not a true big. And Theis is out indefinitely (although I never thought of him as the answer).
If we trade Rozier or Brown, it will be for a big, hopefully a starting caliber big. We absolutely do not need to trade a decent player to bring in someone to stand around and jack 3s. We already rely too much on the 3.
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I agree. We need a guy, probably a bench guy, who can be a deadeye on spot up 3s. We're excellent at creating open 3s, mediocre at making them, and pretty lousy at exploiting the extra floor spacing by having other guys get to the rim. A good shooter helps with the last two by letting our better slashers run a bit more loose and our other shooters get even more comfortable while the defense focuses on him.
Korver's not the answer though, he's at the end of his chain and takes a lot away in other areas. He'd be a situational guy at best.
Maybe what we really need is to have a good shooter like Tatum work on getting more quick catch-and-release shots like last year instead of trying to go And-1 Mixtape on his defender a dozen times a game. Or similar but with Hayward until he's more comfortable on the floor. We've got plenty of capable shooters, if we can get 1-2 to specialize in this mindset it could go a long way.
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This mantra bothers me almost as much as the "we need a rim protector". Irving, Brown, Tatum, and Hayward are some of the best shooters in the league based on historical 3pt%. Then our second tier is Rozier, Morris, and Horford, all serviceable shooters. I disagree that we need more shooting.
We need more depth with our bigs. We have Jason Tatum, a skinny wing, starting at PF. Our depth at big after Horford is Baynes, Williams, Yabusele, and Ojeleye. We have one starting caliber big and then a scrap heap. Morris is really a swing, more a big than Tatum but still not a true big. And Theis is out indefinitely (although I never thought of him as the answer).
If we trade Rozier or Brown, it will be for a big, hopefully a starting caliber big. We absolutely do not need to trade a decent player to bring in someone to stand around and jack 3s. We already rely too much on the 3.
There is a difference between the rim protector discussion and this one IMO. In this case, what I am really saying is that the current mix may not work. And I am proposing a way to change that mix.
As for having some of the best 3P% shooters already, I'm not sure I agree. Tatum shot at a surprisingly high rate last year. I'm sure he'll be fine but he may never shoot that well again in his career, especially as his volume and role increase. Brown and the others are willing shooters too, but not what I mean when I say sharpshooter. And celtics4ever33 said above, all of those guys are rhythm shooters. How they shot in a different role (e.g., Hayward as the man in Utah) may not be how they shoot in this situation, with much more limited and inconsistent touches.
A sharpshooter is a guy that can shoot in any situation, almost with their eyes closed. A sharpshooter is a guy that demands attention because of his shooting. Is the defense going to stick to Brown like glue because of his shooting or is that the shot they're willing to give up? I think it's clearly the ladder.
And obviously percentages don't always tell the whole story. Some guys shoot at a decent clip largely because defenses give them the shot. But that doesn't make them great or pure shooters.
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Double Post.
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Last season the Celtics had the second best three point shooting percentage as a team in the league at 37.1%. They are currently shooting 35.1% good for 14th in the league. But over the last 3 games they are averaging 39.1% which is excellent. Their offense is averaging over 6 points per game better over those 3 games than the 7 before that.
What these numbers show is that the team was in a slump to begin the season and it took some time for the team to gel. They are a very good three point shooting team. There is just no reason to trade for a "sharpshooter". This team is getting better shooting three point shots and will probably be a top three team in the league in doing so by season's end.
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I'm sorry, but I don't see the need for a shooter either. What we need to do is take less contested jumpshots.
And Stevens has to balance his rotation such that we don't have a line-up again like we had against Denver (Rozier/Smart/Ojeleye/Morris/Baynes). That's a unit that's not a result of a roster flaw, but just bad coaching.
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I don't see it either.
This team has got loads of shooting in it's starting unit. All 5 guys shoot the 3 at a good to high clip. This one of the best outside shooting starting units in the league.
The bench has got good outside shooting too. Rozier is very good. Smart and Semi are streaky shooters but the bigs help balance that out. Morris can shoot it. Theis can shoot. Yabusele can shoot.
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We need a lineup tweak. Nothing more.
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I'm sorry, but I don't see the need for a shooter either. What we need to do is take less contested jumpshots.
And Stevens has to balance his rotation such that we don't have a line-up again like we had against Denver (Rozier/Smart/Ojeleye/Morris/Baynes). That's a unit that's not a result of a roster flaw, but just bad coaching.
Brad will continue to run lineups like that, like he does every year. Until the rotation gets set around January, there will be tons of lineups that make you go "what is Brad thinking?", 90% of which will fail (and make people say "that lineup was obviously gonna fail, why is Brad being stupid"). The 10% or so that suceed, though, will pay off big time in June in the event of injury (like last year) or the team needing a change (like starting Gerald Green against the Bulls).
And then Brad will do the same thing next year, and people will make the same complaints, then praise the unorthodox lineups in June. Rinse and repeat
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Suspect shooter Jaylen Brown.
Fantastic shooter Jamal Murray.
Should have listened to me and drafted Murray.