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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: BleedGreen1989 on November 30, 2012, 04:05:08 PM

Title: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on November 30, 2012, 04:05:08 PM
I can't find the quotes but both Doc and KG were saying things along the lines of "some guys know what it means to put this jersey on and some guys think they can just put it on and be great."

They're definetly singling out some new guys..green? Lee? Wilcox? Bass? Anybody besides our big three? Lol
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: MBunge on November 30, 2012, 04:11:19 PM
I can't find the quotes but both Doc and KG were saying things along the lines of "some guys know what it means to put this jersey on and some guys think they can just put it on and be great."

They're definetly singling out some new guys..green? Lee? Wilcox? Bass? Anybody besides our big three? Lol

Wouldn't surprise me if it's Terry.

Mike
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 04:16:37 PM
I can't find the quotes but both Doc and KG were saying things along the lines of "some guys know what it means to put this jersey on and some guys think they can just put it on and be great."

They're definetly singling out some new guys..green? Lee? Wilcox? Bass? Anybody besides our big three? Lol

Wouldn't surprise me if it's Terry.

Mike
The guy who's fresh off the Dallas championship squad? Nope, certainly not.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: Fafnir on November 30, 2012, 04:17:08 PM
Or Green, or Lee, or Sullinger, or anyone "new"

Heck the way the phrased it, it could be an old hand too.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: AB_Celtic on November 30, 2012, 04:19:11 PM
Or Green, or Lee, or Sullinger, or anyone "new"

Heck the way the phrased it, it could be an old hand too.

Agree on Green and Lee. Sully's done everything that we've asked him to and more.

Well, except defend.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: Smutzy#9 on November 30, 2012, 04:24:25 PM
probs green terry and lee. Wilcox has done what he has always done here. I love that guy gives us some good energy
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 04:28:38 PM
probs green terry and lee. Wilcox has done what he has always done here. I love that guy gives us some good energy
I'm not sure why everyone is so fixated on Terry. He's currently the fourth-best player on the team.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: lightspeed5 on November 30, 2012, 04:39:30 PM
**** at terry

he's playing pretty good.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: crownsy on November 30, 2012, 04:39:53 PM
probs green terry and lee. Wilcox has done what he has always done here. I love that guy gives us some good energy
I'm not sure why everyone is so fixated on Terry. He's currently the fourth-best player on the team.

Because people are mad that he isn't averaging 20+ a game I guess. The hype was so severe that somehow the fact that he's actually playing pretty well the last two weeks and scoring at about his normal rate is lost on people.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on November 30, 2012, 04:40:57 PM
probs green terry and lee. Wilcox has done what he has always done here. I love that guy gives us some good energy
I'm not sure why everyone is so fixated on Terry. He's currently the fourth-best player on the team.

THANK YOU!!!!


Just because he isn't jacking up shots doesn't mean he isn't playing well! Doc just has him doing the decoy thing so he doesn't shoot enough BUT when he does shoot it he has been VERY good!!! He has done exactly what he has been asked to do and he also hits the big shots when given to him!


I know people love flashy but really look at what's going on out there!!!

Matter of fact, re-watch the end of last game when Jet was out there playing harder than everyone except maybe KG, he had very good plays in a row but we just couldn't stop Brooklyn. He had us trying for a bit there but Brooklyn was ready while most of our guys weren't!
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: Fafnir on November 30, 2012, 04:41:55 PM
probs green terry and lee. Wilcox has done what he has always done here. I love that guy gives us some good energy
I'm not sure why everyone is so fixated on Terry. He's currently the fourth-best player on the team.

Because people are mad that he isn't averaging 20+ a game I guess. The hype was so severe that somehow the fact that he's actually playing pretty well the last two weeks and scoring at about his normal rate is lost on people.
I've been disappointed in his poor playmaking, he's been making his shots at a pretty good rate.

However he's been a walking turnover when he's tried to create something and pass the ball. Just throwing it right to defenders for some reason.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: MBunge on November 30, 2012, 04:42:23 PM
I can't find the quotes but both Doc and KG were saying things along the lines of "some guys know what it means to put this jersey on and some guys think they can just put it on and be great."

They're definetly singling out some new guys..green? Lee? Wilcox? Bass? Anybody besides our big three? Lol

Wouldn't surprise me if it's Terry.

Mike
The guy who's fresh off the Dallas championship squad? Nope, certainly not.

In case you haven't noticed, Terry's production is down quite a bit from what he was doing in Dallas and his defense, particularly his rotations, isn't exactly setting the world on fire.

Mike
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: MBunge on November 30, 2012, 04:44:12 PM
Doc just has him doing the decoy thing

Why?  He's probably the 2nd or 3rd best scorer on the team.  Why use him as a "decoy"?  Why run him off multiple screens just like Ray, when he's really a different sort of player?

Mike
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: JoT on November 30, 2012, 04:44:31 PM
I don't think they were talking about Terry or Doc wasn't because when he mentioned players who he felt understood what it meant to be a Celtic he brought up KG, Paul, Rondo and Terry.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: CelticSooner on November 30, 2012, 04:53:54 PM
Jet doesn't have a big enough role and Bass has too big a role.

Green and (especially) Lee have been the biggest disappointments to this point. You hardly notice them on the floor half the time.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: GrandTheftRondo on November 30, 2012, 04:57:43 PM
Doc needs to call out himself as well then. Always easier to point fingers than to look in the mirror.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on November 30, 2012, 04:58:20 PM
Doc just has him doing the decoy thing

Why?  He's probably the 2nd or 3rd best scorer on the team.  Why use him as a "decoy"?  Why run him off multiple screens just like Ray, when he's really a different sort of player?

Mike


Haha, that's the same thing I ask in most threads... it's stupid to me but I'm not the coach. I hate seeing Jet shot once ever 3 quarters. He should be averaging more shots but he never looks to shoot and I know it's by design b/c Doc runs him through 600 screens like Ray but unlike Ray is seems Terry is just doing what Doc asks and not complaining about shot attempts. Weird enough this strategy seems work b/c our offense is spot on but our defense is terrible! I would love for PP to say to himself, I'm going to stop putting up some these dumb shots and give it to JET when he is wide open (I love PP but it seems like he has been taking a lot of bad shots and forcing things too much this season EVEN when he is having a bad game shooting).
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: mctyson on November 30, 2012, 04:58:42 PM
Definitely Courtney Lee.  Probably Jeff Green.  Without question Sullinger.  I love Sully's game, but he has to understand he is in their to rebound and be nasty in the post. 
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on November 30, 2012, 05:29:19 PM
Bass could use a little nasty. When your making me yearn for Baby just for the pure physicality he brings there's a BIG problem..
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: jpd985 on November 30, 2012, 05:32:26 PM
Definitely Courtney Lee.  Probably Jeff Green.  Without question Sullinger.  I love Sully's game, but he has to understand he is in their to rebound and be nasty in the post.

I think part of Sully was not wanting to be called for fouls. The refs blow a whistle on him for breathing on someone.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: csfansince60s on November 30, 2012, 05:35:56 PM
I'm sure Terry wasn't one of the guys called out.

The guy was jacked to come here and what it meant to be a Celtic. Cripes, he got a tat to show his commitment.

He came in way before camp and spent hours with Dionte Christmas especially, and anyone else who was around and was shooting and drilling regularly.

In addition, he should be coming off the bench. That's the role that he excels at. When he starts, there are too many scorers on the floor with him, so Jet gets far fewer touches. Doc is definitely misusing him.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: kozlodoev on November 30, 2012, 05:42:02 PM
In case you haven't noticed, Terry's production is down quite a bit from what he was doing in Dallas and his defense, particularly his rotations, isn't exactly setting the world on fire.
And have you noticed that his minutes are down as well? His production per minute is closer than you might think, and his scoring efficiency is considerably higher.

He's basically scoring slightly less per 36 minutes and shooting much much more effectively in the process. If you expected him to set the world on fire, you came to the party with overblown expectation.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: RyNye on November 30, 2012, 06:12:59 PM
Jason Terry is actually playing better than he did last season in Dallas. People are letting their eyes lie to them.

Look at his numbers. Turnovers way down, and although scoring numbers are slightly down his efficiency is better (his TS% last season was 54 ... this season it is almost 64!!).

Terry is not the problem. You could argue that Doc needs to give him more minutes, but Terry is playing well.

Sullinger is also playing well. His defense isn't great, but he isn't the sieve that some people here seem to think he is (in fact, he is actually blocking shots at a decent clip for the amount of minutes he is playing ... his only big problem is over fouling). Still, his rebound percentage is exactly what you want out of a rookie big man, and his shooting percentages are above average. I actually want him to get more playing time, in all honesty.

Wilcox, too, has been great for us. His rebounding has been sub-par, even for him, unfortunately, but his scoring has been much appreciated. His alley-oop receptions skew the data a bit, obviously, but his TS is an astounding 78%, and his PPS is an even 2.0. He also has solid defense, and draws fouls at a good rate.

Pierce is also playing well, despite his shooting slump. He has actually been playing pretty good defense (in fact, the stats say better than last season). His rebounding has been great, as well. He just needs to get his shot more consistent.

Courtney Lee has been a big let-down so far, sure, at least on offense. His defense has been solid, though.

Bass has been sub-par, as well, though only insofar that he has been inconsistent. He has had a few beastly games that show what he can do. But he has definitely been up and down so far.

Honestly, KG has been a disappointment too. I hate to say this, because he is my favorite all-time player, but he has been really off. His defense is virtually non-existent (okay, that's an exaggeration, he still plays pretty good defense compared to the league average, but it isn't nearly as good as you should expect from him). He has been good on offense, but his passing and rebounding are both down.

Jeff Green has, unfortunately, been our worst player. I hope to see him improve, and expect he will, but he has been downright terrible so far.

My expectation is that KG and Pierce will improve as the season goes on. Both are still producing [dang]ed well for players their age, and just need to get their defense and shooting, respectively, back to form. We can pretty much assume they will, as those have traditionally been their greatest strengths. Bass and Lee, too, are have historically played a lot better, even on relatively limited minutes, so they should improve a bit as their roles and minutes become more consistent. Jeff Green is the X factor, and whether Barbosa will be able to keep up his hot shooting.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on November 30, 2012, 06:19:23 PM
The problem starts with Doc and the way he's using his players, until he figures that out, we're going to struggle big time regardless of how our players play and their effort.

Everything that worked in pre-season, he threw to the trash can because we struggled early on, and a big reason we struggled was because of him in the first place. I don't know what brain fart he had playing Terry as a starter instead of Lee, and that's been hurting us badly. Rondo and Terry together have rarely looked good, it completely under-utilizes Terry, and exposes us defensively needlessly.

So KG and Doc can talk all the crap they want about putting a Celtics uniform, but it's time to Doc to wake up.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on November 30, 2012, 06:20:03 PM
Yeah, we have a guy in terry that can actually create his own shot and is very good at doing so. Lets use him like we used ray allen - Doc
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on November 30, 2012, 06:21:29 PM
I really can't wait for Bradley to come back, it'll force Doc to make wiser player rotations. Unless he insists on starting Terry regardless.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: Swoopz on November 30, 2012, 06:29:13 PM
I'd say it's mostly directed towards Green. Bass has played hard, if not very well, same with Lee. Terry's hit some big shots and has been playing pretty well. Other than a couple of games Green has just looked disinterested and lost out there.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on November 30, 2012, 06:34:01 PM
I really can't wait for Bradley to come back, it'll force Doc to make wiser player rotations. Unless he insists on starting Terry regardless.

I'm grabbing my pitchfork if he does that
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: crimson_stallion on November 30, 2012, 08:07:10 PM
Firstly anyone who mentiones KG in this thread with a negative note - shame on you. He has been the hardest working and hardest playing guy on this team. 

He isn't plaing defense? Have you SEEN what happens to our defense when he sits?  He may be more important to his team defensively than any other player in the league.

He's not rebounding?  He's averaging 7.5 rebounds in only 29 minutes.  That translates to 9.3 rebounds per 36 minutes.  His career average (in 36 minutes) is 10.6 - he is rebounding within 85% of his career rate, and that's over an hall of fame career where he's led the league in rebounding multiple years.

Think he's not scoring as well?  He's averaging 19.7 points per 36 minutes, and his career average is 19.3 per 36.  He's actually scoring at a higher rate this season than he has on average over his all-star career.

Efficiency?  He's shooting 52% from the field and 80% from the free throw line, both are ~10% better than his career averages.

The only numbers that are worse than his career averages on a per minutes basis are his steals (-0.4), steals (-0.6) and his assists (-2.0).

As for the 'soft' title I think it's a clear finger pointed at Lee and Green, possibly a somewhat at Bass as well.

Rondo, Pierce and KG on a per minute basis are playing All-Star calibre basketball and doing it on a nightly basis.

Terry (shooting), Sullinger (rebounding), Wilcox (energy) and Barbosa (ball handler and penetration) are playing their roles more or less to perfection.   

Bass is generally playing hard, but he's bee really inconsistent.  His one elite talent (his midrange shot) has not been at the same elite level it was at last season.  He's been a better defender are rebounder at times, but it's been up down.  He's been good when he attacks the rim, but he's not done it often.  When he puts the ball on the floor he looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Green has earned his contract once every 6 games.  Then the next 5 games he plays like a vet minimum bench warmer.  Every player has the occasional game where you just didn't come to play - Green has only the occasional game where he DID.

Lee has yet to have a single exceptional game.  He played one very good game out of about 14.  That's digusting for a guy who's earning 6M a year.  He is making Marquis Daniels look like an All-Star.  Hell even Daniels' defense was better.  The only thing Lee has had consistency is speed and athleticism, but it's useless if you don't use it. 
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: tonyto3690 on November 30, 2012, 08:35:57 PM
I can't find the quotes but both Doc and KG were saying things along the lines of "some guys know what it means to put this jersey on and some guys think they can just put it on and be great."

They're definetly singling out some new guys..green? Lee? Wilcox? Bass? Anybody besides our big three? Lol

Wouldn't surprise me if it's Terry.

Mike

Seriously?  If anything Terry has EXCEEDED expectations this year.  He is shooting career bests, has been exceptional in every role Doc has pegged him in, point guard, shooter with Rondo, scorer off the bench, playmaker.  He's done it all on offense.  On defense he has been astonishingly active.  I wouldn't say great or anything, he got abused by Joe Johnson pretty badly, but he has been working his freaking butt off.  And I was one of those pretty unexcited by him as a free agent  because of his defensive limits.


He's probably referring to Lee and Green who haven't performed like they are capable of.  He might be referring to Bass as there have been whispers of his discontent.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: Atzar on November 30, 2012, 09:24:35 PM
Long post forthcoming.

KG is the best player on this team.  Not much you can say about him.  He's been great on both ends of the court and our only solid rebounder.

Pierce hasn't shot especially well from inside the arc.  Aside from that, he's been somewhat inconsistent on offense, but that's to be expected as he gets older.  He still has stretches where he reminds you why he's going to the Hall of Fame, but they aren't as frequent or extended as they once were.

Terry is a great team player and does everything you want him to do, even though he's mismatched physically against some guards.  That's just a flaw we'll have to live with, but he balances it somewhat with his effort.

I'd throw Lee in there too - he's playing good ball, but his shot just isn't falling.  That's okay.  We don't need him to score much, and I also believe that shot will start falling as the year goes on.  I like the shots he's been taking; he just hasn't gotten the results.

Bass is similar.  I'd like him to attack the glass more consistently, but aside from that he's doing the right things and just not getting the results.  Those midrange jumpers are wide open and will start to fall.

Rondo has been solid on offense and awful on defense.  That gambling crap has to stop, because we no longer have the big men to cover for him.  On offense, I have to wonder if we'll see better ball movement now that his streak has snapped.  They'll never admit it, but I thought they let him dominate the ball even more than they usually do during the streak.  He's a phenomenal passer, but other guys on this team are capable of creating offense too.

Wilcox is a solid rotation big on offense.  I think he actually has more of an offensive game than he shows, too.  Wouldn't mind seeing them toss the ball to him in the post from time to time.  Poor, mistake-prone defender, though.

Sullinger will help us.  Intelligent player who has been the victim of many rookie calls.  He scores without having any plays called for him, and his impact on the glass has been noticed - he's the only player on the team who is willing and able to attack the offensive glass.

Jeff Green seems like he's not fully healthy yet.  Maybe I'm just being naive by saying that.  He's had a game here and there where he looks like he's worth his contract, but I just don't think he's back in basketball shape.  Regardless, he needs to be way more aggressive on offense and on the glass.  He flashes the ability.  He just needs to use it consistently.  On a positive note, I've liked his defense more than I did in the past. 

Barbosa was a good signing.  One of our best players at getting to the rim.  He's liable to score 20 one night and 3 the next, though.  Aggressive, but inconsistent and not very good on defense.

Collins is just a very average player who shouldn't see the court unless it's an emergency. 

Overall, the offense has been good enough but the defense has let this team down.  They give up way too many easy baskets, and then when they do force a miss they give up way too many offensive rebounds.  If they aren't going to attack the glass on offense, then they need to clean up the boards on defense.  They aren't doing that. 
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: indeedproceed on November 30, 2012, 09:49:13 PM
I'd say it's mostly directed towards Green. Bass has played hard, if not very well, same with Lee. Terry's hit some big shots and has been playing pretty well. Other than a couple of games Green has just looked disinterested and lost out there.

This one I agree with, and Id add Barbosa.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: mrpoundforpound on November 30, 2012, 10:03:20 PM
Garnett is being a hypocrite. He needs to be quiet. It is all docs fault for not utilizing green correctly. garnetts time is over Jeff Green is the future of this team.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: Atzar on November 30, 2012, 10:04:06 PM
Garnett is being a hypocrite. He needs to be quiet. It is all docs fault for not utilizing green correctly. garnetts time is over Jeff Green is the future of this team.

not sure if serious
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 30, 2012, 10:04:49 PM
I'd say it's mostly directed towards Green. Bass has played hard, if not very well, same with Lee. Terry's hit some big shots and has been playing pretty well. Other than a couple of games Green has just looked disinterested and lost out there.

This one I agree with, and Id add Barbosa.

I hope you meant that Barbosa's in the group that's been playing hard. Because he has. And I love him.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: indeedproceed on November 30, 2012, 10:19:23 PM
I'd say it's mostly directed towards Green. Bass has played hard, if not very well, same with Lee. Terry's hit some big shots and has been playing pretty well. Other than a couple of games Green has just looked disinterested and lost out there.

This one I agree with, and Id add Barbosa.

I hope you meant that Barbosa's in the group that's been playing hard. Because he has. And I love him.

I'm basing this on the Bk game (I missed tonight's) but yea, he played hard. But kind of frantic, not really with the team. Trying to do too much himself, and isn't really playing with a unit. The whole 'being a star' thing caught my eye in particular. His defense and offense both looked frantic, active, but undisciplined.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: bfrombleacher on December 01, 2012, 02:10:00 AM
I'd say it's mostly directed towards Green. Bass has played hard, if not very well, same with Lee. Terry's hit some big shots and has been playing pretty well. Other than a couple of games Green has just looked disinterested and lost out there.

This one I agree with, and Id add Barbosa.

I hope you meant that Barbosa's in the group that's been playing hard. Because he has. And I love him.

I'm basing this on the Bk game (I missed tonight's) but yea, he played hard. But kind of frantic, not really with the team. Trying to do too much himself, and isn't really playing with a unit. The whole 'being a star' thing caught my eye in particular. His defense and offense both looked frantic, active, but undisciplined.

Played well tonight.

Did you watch the OKC game? I loved him there.

Not clicking will work out. He clicked in the others.

Jeff Green's lack of energy when he struggles is a problem though.

He needs more end-of-Bucks-win effort when he can't score. Even when he does score he needs that.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: cman88 on December 01, 2012, 02:29:05 AM
when Green is agressive with his shot, he can score...that is a given...The question with him seems to be consistency.

tonight was nice. but I want to see him nab another double digit game tomorrow night to show this is something he will/can do every night..rather than follow it up with a stinker
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: Edgar on December 01, 2012, 02:40:23 AM
just throwing anonsense here
pp
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: mgent on December 01, 2012, 09:58:29 AM
I'd say it's mostly directed towards Green. Bass has played hard, if not very well, same with Lee. Terry's hit some big shots and has been playing pretty well. Other than a couple of games Green has just looked disinterested and lost out there.

This one I agree with, and Id add Barbosa.

I hope you meant that Barbosa's in the group that's been playing hard. Because he has. And I love him.

I'm basing this on the Bk game (I missed tonight's) but yea, he played hard. But kind of frantic, not really with the team. Trying to do too much himself, and isn't really playing with a unit. The whole 'being a star' thing caught my eye in particular. His defense and offense both looked frantic, active, but undisciplined.
Um, isn't that what we want him to do?  Haven't we been begging for a player that can do that for 4+ seasons now?  Obviously not the frantic part, but we've needed a guy that can do it by himself without needing to be set up.  And not like Terry and Pierce taking a couple dribbles and getting off a shot, we're talking about a guy that attacks the rim often and actually gets there.

I seriously don't see how his solitary nature is a negative on this particular team.  Nobody creates for themselves and every other team knows that.  The fact that he's made a career doing this willingly off the bench is bonus because our bench has always been 5 guys playing hot potato with no Rondo to make things happen.

I think he should put his head down as often as he likes because it's an efficient opportunity.  I would not risk that by making him over-think the situation.  Rondo makes getting to the rim and finding the open guy at their crazy speed look so easy, but Barbosa knows it's much easier for him to put the ball through the net.

If his do-it-himself mentality means Green and Lee are not super-engaged in the offense that's an acceptable trade-off seeing as they wouldn't be regardless.  And it's not like either of them are decent shooters to pass out to anyway.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: More Banners on December 01, 2012, 10:30:02 AM
We have a lot (too many?) good to very good players, but for the team to come together and win, a lot of these journeyman-level guys need to play out of their minds for every minute they're on the court.  Seriously.

What are our expectations of Courney Lee?  People seem to expect him to be Bradley on defense-all NBA selection, and a slasher and 3-ball maker on offense that probably averages double figures in points. 

And for Jeff Green?  We're probably expecting an average of 15ppg off the bench, with solid defense and rebounding, even as he continues to get minutes out of position just to round him into the 20ish minute mark, even though we all tend to agree that he's not successful as a PF.

What about Bass?  Starting-quality PF who complements KG perfectly is what we're looking for, despite him being undersized and not the best rebounder, we expect him to excel at interior defense, protecting the rim, and owning the boards.

Then add JET to the mix, plus Barbosa and Wilcox...let's add up the points we expect the guys to average:

Pierce:  20
KG:  18
Bass:  12
Rondo:  12
Lee:  12
Subtotal:  74 for the starters.

Green:  15
Terry:  15
Wilcox: 10
Barbosa:10
Sully: 5
Subtotal:  55 for the starters.

So...if we don't score around 130 points, someone probably had a bad game and will get trashed on the boards (unless it's KG, who is beyond reproach).
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: drza44 on December 01, 2012, 10:39:16 AM
Honestly, KG has been a disappointment too. I hate to say this, because he is my favorite all-time player, but he has been really off. His defense is virtually non-existent (okay, that's an exaggeration, he still plays pretty good defense compared to the league average, but it isn't nearly as good as you should expect from him). He has been good on offense, but his passing and rebounding are both down.

Firstly anyone who mentiones KG in this thread with a negative note - shame on you. He has been the hardest working and hardest playing guy on this team. 

He isn't plaing defense? Have you SEEN what happens to our defense when he sits?  He may be more important to his team defensively than any other player in the league.

Just to put some numbers to the claims about KG's performance on defense this year.  This was from the headline blurb posted on RealGM about 10 days ago:

"The Boston Celtics are significantly better on defense with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench.

The 19.6 point gap runs the spectrum from a defense amongst the NBA's best to worst."


http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/224584/Garnett_Improves_Celtics_Defense_By_196_Points

And if anything, KG has played even better in the 10 days since.  Even the team's overall defensive rating is moving up, as they're up to about league average after starting off the year among the league's worst.

The issue around KG is that they've been trying to conserve him and playing him fewer minutes...but everything goes to garbage as soon as he leaves the court.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: kozlodoev on December 01, 2012, 11:08:47 AM
when Green is agressive with his shot, he can score...that is a given...The question with him seems to be consistency.

tonight was nice. but I want to see him nab another double digit game tomorrow night to show this is something he will/can do every night..rather than follow it up with a stinker
To be aggressive with his shot, you have to give him the ball and let him go to work. I think it's instructive (and not an accident) that guys like Lee and Green performed much better when Rondo was off the floor.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: mgent on December 01, 2012, 11:36:24 AM
We have a lot (too many?) good to very good players, but for the team to come together and win, a lot of these journeyman-level guys need to play out of their minds for every minute they're on the court.  Seriously.

What are our expectations of Courney Lee?  People seem to expect him to be Bradley on defense-all NBA selection, and a slasher and 3-ball maker on offense that probably averages double figures in points. 

And for Jeff Green?  We're probably expecting an average of 15ppg off the bench, with solid defense and rebounding, even as he continues to get minutes out of position just to round him into the 20ish minute mark, even though we all tend to agree that he's not successful as a PF.

What about Bass?  Starting-quality PF who complements KG perfectly is what we're looking for, despite him being undersized and not the best rebounder, we expect him to excel at interior defense, protecting the rim, and owning the boards.

Then add JET to the mix, plus Barbosa and Wilcox...let's add up the points we expect the guys to average:

Pierce:  20
KG:  18
Bass:  12
Rondo:  12
Lee:  12
Subtotal:  74 for the starters.

Green:  15
Terry:  15
Wilcox: 10
Barbosa:10
Sully: 5
Subtotal:  55 for the starters.

So...if we don't score around 130 points, someone probably had a bad game and will get trashed on the boards (unless it's KG, who is beyond reproach).
??  I don't know anybody that thinks that.

Pierce 18, KG 15, Rondo 12, Lee 6, Bass 10

Terry 12, Green 10, Barbosa 8, Wilcox 6, Sully 4 or 5

And that's with injuries and missed games where guys can boost their stats.  I highly doubt anybody on this board expects 9 different players to score double digits in every game.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: get_banners on December 01, 2012, 11:37:00 AM
I think the comments (if they were said) were more to kick some of these guys in the rear to do what they're capable of - guys like Lee and Green. Green needs to be more aggressive, even when he's not scoring (though part of the problem is we just run him to the 3 point line when Pierce is in the game - we really should run the offense thru him instead, as he can create in the post or pass the ball well to the open man). Lee needs to play with more energy - the jumper will come, but he needs to not let his off-shooting thus far impact the rest of his game...he can fill up a stat sheet and be great without scoring a ton, like last night. I don't think there was anything negative about the comment, either. I don't think this team has any locker room issues in that sense...they just want some guys to bring more energy all the time.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: jdz101 on December 01, 2012, 11:47:13 AM
Or Green, or Lee, or Sullinger, or anyone "new"

Heck the way the phrased it, it could be an old hand too.

Agree on Green and Lee. Sully's done everything that we've asked him to and more.

Well, except defend.

Harsh. The kids a rookie, at pick 21 or something.

Did you expect a college player to be an ace at NBA level rotations defensively?

Sullinger gets absolutely zero love from refs either.
Title: Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on December 01, 2012, 12:00:15 PM
Was this public? The calling out?

If so, I'm shocked...BOS has normally roasted guys in private, as a TEAM, rather than making any internal team issues public.