Are you okay with us not contending next year?

[RodyTur10]

Ok with it or not, we aren't contending next year.  I don't see a feasible path to us contending in the next 5 years.  Should be in the mix for a late seed.

Elite defense and a decent offense is a formula for a middle seed (a la pacers this year) if combined with depth and team effort.

I expect all of those things from a brad Stevens team that doesnt have primadona distractions.


Regardless, they wouldn't be a contender. Not unless Tatum AND brown make major leaps AND Danny finds some Pascal siakam type gems in the draft.

Lotto is in play next season.  On paper, this team is worse than the Suns.

Classic LarBrd33 comment.

Find me a non-homer that wouldn't take booker and ayton over tatum and brown.

First, I think PLENTY of people would take Tatum and Brown over them, as perimeter forward play wins in today's NBA.

Second, but even granting your argument, that still doesn't mean they are "worse than the Suns" on paper, as last I checked there are more than two players. And Boston's supporting cast is >> than the Suns' supporting cast.

That is exceedingly poor logic, Lar.

honestly, kyrie should consider signing with the suns.  It’s a better supporting cast and when he leads them to 50+ wins they will celebrate him ... as opposed to in Boston where he carried this lesser roster to 49 wins and they acted like he was a cancer.

Right?!? Once Kyrie could get away from passive Al Horford and offensively challenged Smart, he would be so much better off playing with an aggressive Josh Jackson and scoring Machine Jimmer Fredette.

....Imagine the possibilities...

come on now.  Booker is by far the best scorer on either team not named Irving (and might be a better scorer than Irving).  Ayton is BY FAR the best prospect on either team and as a rookie averaged a double double.  Warren is an excellent 4th scorer and solid defender. 

The Suns are almost there.  They need a PG (any PG really) and one more top end player to really move them along (it can be the same player).  It is why they are willing to move #6 for a quality veteran PG.

My god. It really is classic of you to overrate another teams players so drastically that you would go as far as to say a team that won 19 games last season is "almost there".

I agree though. Phoenix is a very talented team. They just need to fix a few really weak spots in their rotation and they will immediately be dangerous. A new point guard and a few defensive role players would do wonders for them.

PG: ? - Melton
SG: Booker - Johnson
SF: Warren - Bridges
PF: Oubre - ?
C: Ayton - ?

[PAOBoston]

The question is whether Wyc and Co. are content with being a non contender. It doesn’t sound like it, especially with how open the league is expected to be next year.

Personally I have zero patience for another 3-5 year rebuild. Rebuilding is fun until you reach the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed and just get smacked in the first round by the best team in the conference.

[footey]

I think Wyc and DA are trying too hard to microwave a championship team. If what we want is what the Warriors or Spurs had, then we have to draft and groom a set of core players and establish a style of play through them.

Adding a star to a young team, with its young pieces still developing, is a recipe for Disaster. I'd love to give the young bucks a good run... Steph, Klay, Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu all drafted.

Sometimes it feels like we're building in reverse cuz as soon as a player starts to flourish we try to flip them

You're absolutely right, and I think it's a matter of building philosophy.



I think there are several ways to build a good team, and you can see examples of each method throughout the league.



Some teams prioritize the draft (see: Sixers), other teams want to make big moves in free agency (see: Lakers), others want to make trades (see: Celtics).


Most full rebuilds require a mix of those three things,  but you can see that every GM has a different philosophy and values different tools more than others.


Danny's strategy since he started as a GM, it seems, has been to continually build up a pile of assets until he can make a move for a major piece.  It's a strategy that has worked well for him, but it does mean that the players on the roster turn over a lot as he's exchanging one set of assets for a new one. 

It also tends to result in what you're talking about -- this feeling that we're building in reverse, trying to make the core of a good team happen all at once and then figure out the supporting foundation afterward.



Honestly I agree with you -- I would like to see the team try to build a solid foundation, develop a distinct identity, and then look for ways to upgrade the core without compromising the foundation.

Problem is I just dont' think that's the way Ainge and Wyc prefer to build the team.  They want to put together the best collection of talent at the top and then figure the rest out later. 

You can't exactly blame them since it worked once before. And if you just look at the team's record since Danny traded Pierce and Garnett, they've averaged 45 wins per year and only been in the lottery once.  Hard to argue with those results even if the Celts haven't been a genuine contender since 2011.

But it is frustrating because it means we have this sense nearly every summer that the whole team could look completely different next year.  Even during the season we have a feeling that the players on the team now might be gone in a few months because Danny's always looking for the next big move he could make to put the team in a better position. 

That's exciting, but at the same time it's also frustrating because we never really see what the team might look like if they just let the same core group gain experience and confidence playing together.

Well said PhoSita. TP

[footey]

We have two choices.

Get Davis and Irving and go for it next year.

Or keep our assets until Hayward and Horford are off the books and sign a couple of big free agents then.

Multiple draft picks increase the odds that the missing piece can come out of the draft if we groom him a couple of seasons. Sure some luck is involved, and patience, but our Jayson/Jaylen core is so young, we have plenty of time to groom them.

[gouki88]

Ok with it or not, we aren't contending next year.  I don't see a feasible path to us contending in the next 5 years.  Should be in the mix for a late seed.

Elite defense and a decent offense is a formula for a middle seed (a la pacers this year) if combined with depth and team effort.

I expect all of those things from a brad Stevens team that doesnt have primadona distractions.


Regardless, they wouldn't be a contender. Not unless Tatum AND brown make major leaps AND Danny finds some Pascal siakam type gems in the draft.

Lotto is in play next season.  On paper, this team is worse than the Suns.

Classic LarBrd33 comment.

Find me a non-homer that wouldn't take booker and ayton over tatum and brown.

First, I think PLENTY of people would take Tatum and Brown over them, as perimeter forward play wins in today's NBA.

Second, but even granting your argument, that still doesn't mean they are "worse than the Suns" on paper, as last I checked there are more than two players. And Boston's supporting cast is >> than the Suns' supporting cast.

That is exceedingly poor logic, Lar.

honestly, kyrie should consider signing with the suns.  It’s a better supporting cast and when he leads them to 50+ wins they will celebrate him ... as opposed to in Boston where he carried this lesser roster to 49 wins and they acted like he was a cancer.

Right?!? Once Kyrie could get away from passive Al Horford and offensively challenged Smart, he would be so much better off playing with an aggressive Josh Jackson and scoring Machine Jimmer Fredette.

....Imagine the possibilities...

come on now.  Booker is by far the best scorer on either team not named Irving (and might be a better scorer than Irving).  Ayton is BY FAR the best prospect on either team and as a rookie averaged a double double.  Warren is an excellent 4th scorer and solid defender. 

The Suns are almost there.  They need a PG (any PG really) and one more top end player to really move them along (it can be the same player).  It is why they are willing to move #6 for a quality veteran PG.

My god. It really is classic of you to overrate another teams players so drastically that you would go as far as to say a team that won 19 games last season is "almost there".

I agree though. Phoenix is a very talented team. They just need to fix a few really weak spots in their rotation and they will immediately be dangerous. A new point guard and a few defensive role players would do wonders for them.

PG: ? - Melton
SG: Booker - Johnson
SF: Warren - Bridges
PF: Oubre - ?
C: Ayton - ?

They're talented, but they have perhaps the worst defensive guard in the league in Booker and a poor defensive big-man in Ayton, and unlike Moranis says Warren is not a solid defender - he's average at best. They also have no consistent coaching, an ownership that doesn't know what it wants and management that seems to be completely all over the place. So I think they're more than just a few good players away

[Moranis]

Ok with it or not, we aren't contending next year.  I don't see a feasible path to us contending in the next 5 years.  Should be in the mix for a late seed.

Elite defense and a decent offense is a formula for a middle seed (a la pacers this year) if combined with depth and team effort.

I expect all of those things from a brad Stevens team that doesnt have primadona distractions.


Regardless, they wouldn't be a contender. Not unless Tatum AND brown make major leaps AND Danny finds some Pascal siakam type gems in the draft.

Lotto is in play next season.  On paper, this team is worse than the Suns.

Classic LarBrd33 comment.

Find me a non-homer that wouldn't take booker and ayton over tatum and brown.

First, I think PLENTY of people would take Tatum and Brown over them, as perimeter forward play wins in today's NBA.

Second, but even granting your argument, that still doesn't mean they are "worse than the Suns" on paper, as last I checked there are more than two players. And Boston's supporting cast is >> than the Suns' supporting cast.

That is exceedingly poor logic, Lar.

honestly, kyrie should consider signing with the suns.  It’s a better supporting cast and when he leads them to 50+ wins they will celebrate him ... as opposed to in Boston where he carried this lesser roster to 49 wins and they acted like he was a cancer.

Right?!? Once Kyrie could get away from passive Al Horford and offensively challenged Smart, he would be so much better off playing with an aggressive Josh Jackson and scoring Machine Jimmer Fredette.

....Imagine the possibilities...

come on now.  Booker is by far the best scorer on either team not named Irving (and might be a better scorer than Irving).  Ayton is BY FAR the best prospect on either team and as a rookie averaged a double double.  Warren is an excellent 4th scorer and solid defender. 

The Suns are almost there.  They need a PG (any PG really) and one more top end player to really move them along (it can be the same player).  It is why they are willing to move #6 for a quality veteran PG.

My god. It really is classic of you to overrate another teams players so drastically that you would go as far as to say a team that won 19 games last season is "almost there".

I agree though. Phoenix is a very talented team. They just need to fix a few really weak spots in their rotation and they will immediately be dangerous. A new point guard and a few defensive role players would do wonders for them.

PG: ? - Melton
SG: Booker - Johnson
SF: Warren - Bridges
PF: Oubre - ?
C: Ayton - ?

They're talented, but they have perhaps the worst defensive guard in the league in Booker and a poor defensive big-man in Ayton, and unlike Moranis says Warren is not a solid defender - he's average at best. They also have no consistent coaching, an ownership that doesn't know what it wants and management that seems to be completely all over the place. So I think they're more than just a few good players away

I like Williams.  I think he will bring a stabilizing influence in the locker-room that the Suns have desperately needed and otherwise they have been lacking.  And I do really think they are a quality PG away from taking a major leap.  Sometimes teams do in fact go from crappy to very good in the span of a season or two.  We saw both the Thunder and Sixers do that.  I mean in 4 consecutive seasons the Thunder won 20 games, then 23 games, then 50 games, then 55 games (and lost in the finals).  Those things do in fact happen.  The Sixers have won over 50 games the last 2 seasons after winning 28 and 10 the 2 years before that.  A few years back, the Bucks go from 15 to 41 wins in one season.   

I have no idea if the Suns are going to go that route or just keep plodding along, but they have building up top tier draft picks for years and I do think they finally have a very good mix of big guys, wings, and guards.  They need a PG though.  Even an average PG (like say Rozier) would do wonders for their team. I mean seriously the PG's they ended the year with were De'Anthony Melton, Elie Okobo, and Tyler Johnson (the latter is not a PG but is an ok bench guard).  There are several college teams with a better collection of PG's. 

Booker, Oubre, Warren, and Ayton is a very strong base.  They also have Jackson and Bridges who have been shown enough to at least be rotational level players on quality teams.  The need a PG and a top tier player.  That can be the same player.  For example, a guy like Conley would be great on that squad and probably would add 15 wins alone given just how much an upgrade he would be.