All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

Sam Hinkie wasn't much of a GM, but he was a heck of a marketer.  Lots of teams have taken a similar approach in the past; before it was called the "process," it was known by the less catchy slogan, "really sucking for a really long time."

I'll take people who have no idea what they're talking about for 2000 Alec.

Name one bad Sam Hinkie trade. Seriously. Name one.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

I'll genuinely be surprised if they aren't a playoff team in the next 3 years.  Even if they were at full strength right now that might be a team that could threaten for a playoff slot (with Embiid off the minutes restriction, Noel getting 20+ minutes and Simmons back).   

Even with Embiid limited to 25 minutes per night and Simmons yet to make his debut, they are about even with the Timberwolves - which says a lot.

Philly is 10-25. Minny is 11-26.

What promise could you or Philly ownership make to the Philly fans that these players will hit their prime wearing a 76ers jersey? I don't see this as a given.

Please post the lengthy list of max guys who declined a max extension to take a qualifying offer.

Don't waste your time, it doesn't exist. There's your evidence.

[Celtics18]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

Sam Hinkie wasn't much of a GM, but he was a heck of a marketer.  Lots of teams have taken a similar approach in the past; before it was called the "process," it was known by the less catchy slogan, "really sucking for a really long time."

I'll take people who have no idea what they're talking about for 2000 Alec.

Name one bad Sam Hinkie trade. Seriously. Name one.

Got me.

[bdm860]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

I'll genuinely be surprised if they aren't a playoff team in the next 3 years.  Even if they were at full strength right now that might be a team that could threaten for a playoff slot (with Embiid off the minutes restriction, Noel getting 20+ minutes and Simmons back).   

Even with Embiid limited to 25 minutes per night and Simmons yet to make his debut, they are about even with the Timberwolves - which says a lot.

Philly is 10-25. Minny is 11-26.

What promise could you or Philly ownership make to the Philly fans that these players will hit their prime wearing a 76ers jersey? I don't see this as a given.

Please post the lengthy list of max guys who declined a max extension to take a qualifying offer.

Don't waste your time, it doesn't exist. There's your evidence.

What does this have to do with the the question proposed?

Young, promising teams get broken up all the time for a variety of reasons.

OKC traded Harden because they couldn't afford him.  If Philly has to dish out more than 2 max contracts, it will get interesting.

Portland fans were probably ecstatic to have a young nucleus of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldrige, and Greg Oden,  but some serious injuries happened along the way.

And there's definitely a long list of players who have demanded trades before their first non-rookie contract was up. Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard.

Other times, that young talent just doesn't develop like you think it would.  Probably too many teams to list that had several high lottery picks together but didn't win squat, but the squad that immediately comes to mind for me is LAC. They teamed #1 pick and ROY Elton Brand with #4 pick and next great point forward Lamar Odom, along with the #3 pick and next KG in Darius Miles.  Besides those 3 can't miss studs, they also had other young players with potential like Olowakandi, Maggette, Richardson, Dooling.  You have to be a pretty special team to make it cool to wear Clippers gear again.

And then not all players get along or are happy to be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option.  Magic fans were thrilled to have Shaq/Penny, but Shaq and Penny butted heads so Shaq left.  Wolves fans were thrilled to have KG/Marbury duo, but Marbury was jealous of KG so he forced a trade, Toronto fans had Carter/McGrady, but McGrady didn't want to play in Carter's shadow so he left.  Phoenix had a sweet nucleus of Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Johnson, and then Joe Johnson said, you know what, I think I'd rather get more shots and more money, so I'm going to leave this stacked 62 win team and join a 13 win team. It happens.

So far, the best example we have of what Philly hopes to do is basically what OKC did 5 years ago, and look how that ended up and where all the players are now.  2 players got traded because the team didn't want to pay them (Harden, Jackson), one player was traded for a role player (Jeff Green for Perk), and even though they kept Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka trio together for 7-8 years, one day Durant just decides to leave for nothing. Not that most fan bases wouldn't love to be OKC from about '10-'16, but there's no guarantee it all works out.

[GC003332]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

I'll genuinely be surprised if they aren't a playoff team in the next 3 years.  Even if they were at full strength right now that might be a team that could threaten for a playoff slot (with Embiid off the minutes restriction, Noel getting 20+ minutes and Simmons back).   

Even with Embiid limited to 25 minutes per night and Simmons yet to make his debut, they are about even with the Timberwolves - which says a lot.

Philly is 10-25. Minny is 11-26.

What promise could you or Philly ownership make to the Philly fans that these players will hit their prime wearing a 76ers jersey? I don't see this as a given.

Please post the lengthy list of max guys who declined a max extension to take a qualifying offer.

Don't waste your time, it doesn't exist. There's your evidence.

What does this have to do with the the question proposed?

Young, promising teams get broken up all the time for a variety of reasons.

OKC traded Harden because they couldn't afford him.  If Philly has to dish out more than 2 max contracts, it will get interesting.

Portland fans were probably ecstatic to have a young nucleus of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldrige, and Greg Oden,  but some serious injuries happened along the way.

And there's definitely a long list of players who have demanded trades before their first non-rookie contract was up. Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard.

Other times, that young talent just doesn't develop like you think it would.  Probably too many teams to list that had several high lottery picks together but didn't win squat, but the squad that immediately comes to mind for me is LAC. They teamed #1 pick and ROY Elton Brand with #4 pick and next great point forward Lamar Odom, along with the #3 pick and next KG in Darius Miles.  Besides those 3 can't miss studs, they also had other young players with potential like Olowakandi, Maggette, Richardson, Dooling.  You have to be a pretty special team to make it cool to wear Clippers gear again.

And then not all players get along or are happy to be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option.  Magic fans were thrilled to have Shaq/Penny, but Shaq and Penny butted heads so Shaq left.  Wolves fans were thrilled to have KG/Marbury duo, but Marbury was jealous of KG so he forced a trade   Toronto fans had Carter/McGrady, but McGrady didn't want to play in Carter's shadow so he left.  Phoenix had a sweet nucleus of Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Johnson, and then Joe Johnson said, you know what, I think I'd rather get more shots and more money, so I'm going to leave this stacked 62 win team and join a 13 win team. It happens.

So far, the best example we have of what Philly hopes to do is basically what OKC did 5 years ago, and look how that ended up and where all the players are now.  2 players got traded because the team didn't want to pay them (Harden, Jackson), one player was traded for a role player (Jeff Green for Perk), and even though they kept Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka trio together for 7-8 years, one day Durant just decides to leave for nothing. Not that most fan bases wouldn't love to be OKC from about '10-'16, but there's no guarantee it all works out.

Add the 3 J's in Dallas , The mid 90's Nuggets and Bullets to the list of teams who thought that their future was great with 3 or more young studs acquired through the draft or trades ,The Bucks thought that they had their version of the big three in Robinson, Allen and Cassell , Big Dog and Allen fought for control of the team and both eventually got traded away. League history is filled with dozens of teams with young guys who couldn't co exist or flamed out due to injuries.
This is not to say that the Sixers will end up this way , it is a possibility that Simmons will be the glue guy with his passing to blend in with Embiid and the incoming draft picks that they have coming in this years draft.
But the idea that 6,7,8 lottery picks under the age of 25 is going to seamlessly blend together and be willing to sacrifice shots and playing time for the good of the Sixers is very naive, young guys who get drafted don't care where they play as long as they are given the chance to reach their maximum potential as players and thus get the biggest contract that they can whether it be with the team that drafted them or elsewhere.
My strategy would be to go with Embiid and Simmons along with one of their draft picks and get some quality veterans to surround them as early as next year.If they did that I could easily seeing them with good health win in the upper 30 win region or even crack .500 and get into the lower playoff region.

[celticsclay]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

I'll genuinely be surprised if they aren't a playoff team in the next 3 years.  Even if they were at full strength right now that might be a team that could threaten for a playoff slot (with Embiid off the minutes restriction, Noel getting 20+ minutes and Simmons back).   

Even with Embiid limited to 25 minutes per night and Simmons yet to make his debut, they are about even with the Timberwolves - which says a lot.

Philly is 10-25. Minny is 11-26.

What promise could you or Philly ownership make to the Philly fans that these players will hit their prime wearing a 76ers jersey? I don't see this as a given.

Please post the lengthy list of max guys who declined a max extension to take a qualifying offer.

Don't waste your time, it doesn't exist. There's your evidence.

What does this have to do with the the question proposed?

Young, promising teams get broken up all the time for a variety of reasons.

OKC traded Harden because they couldn't afford him.  If Philly has to dish out more than 2 max contracts, it will get interesting.

Portland fans were probably ecstatic to have a young nucleus of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldrige, and Greg Oden,  but some serious injuries happened along the way.

And there's definitely a long list of players who have demanded trades before their first non-rookie contract was up. Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard.

Other times, that young talent just doesn't develop like you think it would.  Probably too many teams to list that had several high lottery picks together but didn't win squat, but the squad that immediately comes to mind for me is LAC. They teamed #1 pick and ROY Elton Brand with #4 pick and next great point forward Lamar Odom, along with the #3 pick and next KG in Darius Miles.  Besides those 3 can't miss studs, they also had other young players with potential like Olowakandi, Maggette, Richardson, Dooling.  You have to be a pretty special team to make it cool to wear Clippers gear again.

And then not all players get along or are happy to be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option.  Magic fans were thrilled to have Shaq/Penny, but Shaq and Penny butted heads so Shaq left.  Wolves fans were thrilled to have KG/Marbury duo, but Marbury was jealous of KG so he forced a trade   Toronto fans had Carter/McGrady, but McGrady didn't want to play in Carter's shadow so he left.  Phoenix had a sweet nucleus of Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Johnson, and then Joe Johnson said, you know what, I think I'd rather get more shots and more money, so I'm going to leave this stacked 62 win team and join a 13 win team. It happens.

So far, the best example we have of what Philly hopes to do is basically what OKC did 5 years ago, and look how that ended up and where all the players are now.  2 players got traded because the team didn't want to pay them (Harden, Jackson), one player was traded for a role player (Jeff Green for Perk), and even though they kept Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka trio together for 7-8 years, one day Durant just decides to leave for nothing. Not that most fan bases wouldn't love to be OKC from about '10-'16, but there's no guarantee it all works out.

Add the 3 J's in Dallas , The mid 90's Nuggets and Bullets to the list of teams who thought that their future was great with 3 or more young studs acquired through the draft or trades ,The Bucks thought that they had their version of the big three in Robinson, Allen and Cassell , Big Dog and Allen fought for control of the team and both eventually got traded away. League history is filled with dozens of teams with young guys who couldn't co exist or flamed out due to injuries.
This is not to say that the Sixers will end up this way , it is a possibility that Simmons will be the glue guy with his passing to blend in with Embiid and the incoming draft picks that they have coming in this years draft.
But the idea that 6,7,8 lottery picks under the age of 25 is going to seamlessly blend together and be willing to sacrifice shots and playing time for the good of the Sixers is very naive, young guys who get drafted don't care where they play as long as they are given the chance to reach their maximum potential as players and thus get the biggest contract that they can whether it be with the team that drafted them or elsewhere.
My strategy would be to go with Embiid and Simmons along with one of their draft picks and get some quality veterans to surround them as early as next year.If they did that I could easily seeing them with good health win in the upper 30 win region or even crack .500 and get into the lower playoff region.

I think there is a lot of good stuff here. I really enjoy watching Embiid play and really do hope he stays healthy. I am also a bit intrigued by Simmons and think he has a chance to be a great player. However, I do cringe when people talk about the Sixers have 10 (or even 15!) years of dominance based off 35 games from Embiid and without having seen Simmons play. I was pretty high on the Twolves last year because I thought their pieces really fit together well. Now it seems like Wiggins may really only be a slightly above average player, Dieng may just be an average starter and Towns could be more of a one way player. Maybe the Twolves now never become much more than a .500 team with those guys? Then again, maybe they get through some growing teams and become a contender.

There have been a lot of teams in the last 20 years that had two future superstars but for a variety of reasons that others have point out they never amounted to anything. Lets just sit back and enjoy the ride and hold off on annointing the next great thing.

[saltlover]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

I'll genuinely be surprised if they aren't a playoff team in the next 3 years.  Even if they were at full strength right now that might be a team that could threaten for a playoff slot (with Embiid off the minutes restriction, Noel getting 20+ minutes and Simmons back).   

Even with Embiid limited to 25 minutes per night and Simmons yet to make his debut, they are about even with the Timberwolves - which says a lot.

Philly is 10-25. Minny is 11-26.

What promise could you or Philly ownership make to the Philly fans that these players will hit their prime wearing a 76ers jersey? I don't see this as a given.

Please post the lengthy list of max guys who declined a max extension to take a qualifying offer.

Don't waste your time, it doesn't exist. There's your evidence.

What does this have to do with the the question proposed?

Young, promising teams get broken up all the time for a variety of reasons.

OKC traded Harden because they couldn't afford him.  If Philly has to dish out more than 2 max contracts, it will get interesting.

Portland fans were probably ecstatic to have a young nucleus of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldrige, and Greg Oden,  but some serious injuries happened along the way.

And there's definitely a long list of players who have demanded trades before their first non-rookie contract was up. Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard.

Other times, that young talent just doesn't develop like you think it would.  Probably too many teams to list that had several high lottery picks together but didn't win squat, but the squad that immediately comes to mind for me is LAC. They teamed #1 pick and ROY Elton Brand with #4 pick and next great point forward Lamar Odom, along with the #3 pick and next KG in Darius Miles.  Besides those 3 can't miss studs, they also had other young players with potential like Olowakandi, Maggette, Richardson, Dooling.  You have to be a pretty special team to make it cool to wear Clippers gear again.

And then not all players get along or are happy to be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option.  Magic fans were thrilled to have Shaq/Penny, but Shaq and Penny butted heads so Shaq left.  Wolves fans were thrilled to have KG/Marbury duo, but Marbury was jealous of KG so he forced a trade   Toronto fans had Carter/McGrady, but McGrady didn't want to play in Carter's shadow so he left.  Phoenix had a sweet nucleus of Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Johnson, and then Joe Johnson said, you know what, I think I'd rather get more shots and more money, so I'm going to leave this stacked 62 win team and join a 13 win team. It happens.

So far, the best example we have of what Philly hopes to do is basically what OKC did 5 years ago, and look how that ended up and where all the players are now.  2 players got traded because the team didn't want to pay them (Harden, Jackson), one player was traded for a role player (Jeff Green for Perk), and even though they kept Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka trio together for 7-8 years, one day Durant just decides to leave for nothing. Not that most fan bases wouldn't love to be OKC from about '10-'16, but there's no guarantee it all works out.

Add the 3 J's in Dallas , The mid 90's Nuggets and Bullets to the list of teams who thought that their future was great with 3 or more young studs acquired through the draft or trades ,The Bucks thought that they had their version of the big three in Robinson, Allen and Cassell , Big Dog and Allen fought for control of the team and both eventually got traded away. League history is filled with dozens of teams with young guys who couldn't co exist or flamed out due to injuries.
This is not to say that the Sixers will end up this way , it is a possibility that Simmons will be the glue guy with his passing to blend in with Embiid and the incoming draft picks that they have coming in this years draft.
But the idea that 6,7,8 lottery picks under the age of 25 is going to seamlessly blend together and be willing to sacrifice shots and playing time for the good of the Sixers is very naive, young guys who get drafted don't care where they play as long as they are given the chance to reach their maximum potential as players and thus get the biggest contract that they can whether it be with the team that drafted them or elsewhere.
My strategy would be to go with Embiid and Simmons along with one of their draft picks and get some quality veterans to surround them as early as next year.If they did that I could easily seeing them with good health win in the upper 30 win region or even crack .500 and get into the lower playoff region.

I think there is a lot of good stuff here. I really enjoy watching Embiid play and really do hope he stays healthy. I am also a bit intrigued by Simmons and think he has a chance to be a great player. However, I do cringe when people talk about the Sixers have 10 (or even 15!) years of dominance based off 35 games from Embiid and without having seen Simmons play. I was pretty high on the Twolves last year because I thought their pieces really fit together well. Now it seems like Wiggins may really only be a slightly above average player, Dieng may just be an average starter and Towns could be more of a one way player. Maybe the Twolves now never become much more than a .500 team with those guys? Then again, maybe they get through some growing teams and become a contender.

There have been a lot of teams in the last 20 years that had two future superstars but for a variety of reasons that others have point out they never amounted to anything. Lets just sit back and enjoy the ride and hold off on annointing the next great thing.

I think there's a lot of good discussion here.  One thing I'd point out is that we could have a similar discussion with regards to the Celtics.  The default option (no trades) is to integrate 3-4 high lottery picks (Smart, Brown, 2017 and 2018 Brooklyn) into a top 4-8 team.  Smart seems to be less of a problem in that he's mostly integrated already, but he's still in his 3rd year and will enter his first contract negotiation this summer.  Finding players who desire winning over minutes as young players is not easy.  Recall that Kris Dunn wouldn't work out for us last draft for that very reason.  Will Markelle Fultz be willing to earn his minutes if selected? How would AB, IT, and Smart react to him taking those minutes when all three are in contract years? Or if we selected Giles, how much is he sitting behind Horford?  What of the 2018 pick?

The Celtics are really in an unprecedented situation, with the amount of high-quality youth they could infuse into an already successful, but not old, team.  And mostly that's good, but there will have to be some careful management by both Ainge and Stevens to take full advantage of the situation.

[Smitty77]

I just want to know WHEN the Timberwolves and the Sixers are going to start WINNING games with all their collective young talent??

Currently the T-Wolves have the 25th record and the Sixers have the 28th!!!!

BTW. the Sixers have a blog and here it is for those interested:

http://www.libertyballers.com/

I think some of you might be more comfortable there:-))))

Smitty77

[moiso]

I just want to know WHEN the Timberwolves and the Sixers are going to start WINNING games with all their collective young talent??

Currently the T-Wolves have the 25th record and the Sixers have the 28th!!!!

BTW. the Sixers have a blog and here it is for those interested:

http://www.libertyballers.com/

I think some of you might be more comfortable there:-))))

Smitty77

TP.

[footey]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

I'll genuinely be surprised if they aren't a playoff team in the next 3 years.  Even if they were at full strength right now that might be a team that could threaten for a playoff slot (with Embiid off the minutes restriction, Noel getting 20+ minutes and Simmons back).   

Even with Embiid limited to 25 minutes per night and Simmons yet to make his debut, they are about even with the Timberwolves - which says a lot.

Philly is 10-25. Minny is 11-26.

What promise could you or Philly ownership make to the Philly fans that these players will hit their prime wearing a 76ers jersey? I don't see this as a given.

Please post the lengthy list of max guys who declined a max extension to take a qualifying offer.

Don't waste your time, it doesn't exist. There's your evidence.

What does this have to do with the the question proposed?

Young, promising teams get broken up all the time for a variety of reasons.

OKC traded Harden because they couldn't afford him.  If Philly has to dish out more than 2 max contracts, it will get interesting.

Portland fans were probably ecstatic to have a young nucleus of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldrige, and Greg Oden,  but some serious injuries happened along the way.

And there's definitely a long list of players who have demanded trades before their first non-rookie contract was up. Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard.

Other times, that young talent just doesn't develop like you think it would.  Probably too many teams to list that had several high lottery picks together but didn't win squat, but the squad that immediately comes to mind for me is LAC. They teamed #1 pick and ROY Elton Brand with #4 pick and next great point forward Lamar Odom, along with the #3 pick and next KG in Darius Miles.  Besides those 3 can't miss studs, they also had other young players with potential like Olowakandi, Maggette, Richardson, Dooling.  You have to be a pretty special team to make it cool to wear Clippers gear again.

And then not all players get along or are happy to be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option.  Magic fans were thrilled to have Shaq/Penny, but Shaq and Penny butted heads so Shaq left.  Wolves fans were thrilled to have KG/Marbury duo, but Marbury was jealous of KG so he forced a trade   Toronto fans had Carter/McGrady, but McGrady didn't want to play in Carter's shadow so he left.  Phoenix had a sweet nucleus of Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Johnson, and then Joe Johnson said, you know what, I think I'd rather get more shots and more money, so I'm going to leave this stacked 62 win team and join a 13 win team. It happens.

So far, the best example we have of what Philly hopes to do is basically what OKC did 5 years ago, and look how that ended up and where all the players are now.  2 players got traded because the team didn't want to pay them (Harden, Jackson), one player was traded for a role player (Jeff Green for Perk), and even though they kept Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka trio together for 7-8 years, one day Durant just decides to leave for nothing. Not that most fan bases wouldn't love to be OKC from about '10-'16, but there's no guarantee it all works out.

Add the 3 J's in Dallas , The mid 90's Nuggets and Bullets to the list of teams who thought that their future was great with 3 or more young studs acquired through the draft or trades ,The Bucks thought that they had their version of the big three in Robinson, Allen and Cassell , Big Dog and Allen fought for control of the team and both eventually got traded away. League history is filled with dozens of teams with young guys who couldn't co exist or flamed out due to injuries.
This is not to say that the Sixers will end up this way , it is a possibility that Simmons will be the glue guy with his passing to blend in with Embiid and the incoming draft picks that they have coming in this years draft.
But the idea that 6,7,8 lottery picks under the age of 25 is going to seamlessly blend together and be willing to sacrifice shots and playing time for the good of the Sixers is very naive, young guys who get drafted don't care where they play as long as they are given the chance to reach their maximum potential as players and thus get the biggest contract that they can whether it be with the team that drafted them or elsewhere.
My strategy would be to go with Embiid and Simmons along with one of their draft picks and get some quality veterans to surround them as early as next year.If they did that I could easily seeing them with good health win in the upper 30 win region or even crack .500 and get into the lower playoff region.

I think there is a lot of good stuff here. I really enjoy watching Embiid play and really do hope he stays healthy. I am also a bit intrigued by Simmons and think he has a chance to be a great player. However, I do cringe when people talk about the Sixers have 10 (or even 15!) years of dominance based off 35 games from Embiid and without having seen Simmons play. I was pretty high on the Twolves last year because I thought their pieces really fit together well. Now it seems like Wiggins may really only be a slightly above average player, Dieng may just be an average starter and Towns could be more of a one way player. Maybe the Twolves now never become much more than a .500 team with those guys? Then again, maybe they get through some growing teams and become a contender.

There have been a lot of teams in the last 20 years that had two future superstars but for a variety of reasons that others have point out they never amounted to anything. Lets just sit back and enjoy the ride and hold off on annointing the next great thing.

I think there's a lot of good discussion here.  One thing I'd point out is that we could have a similar discussion with regards to the Celtics.  The default option (no trades) is to integrate 3-4 high lottery picks (Smart, Brown, 2017 and 2018 Brooklyn) into a top 4-8 team.  Smart seems to be less of a problem in that he's mostly integrated already, but he's still in his 3rd year and will enter his first contract negotiation this summer.  Finding players who desire winning over minutes as young players is not easy.  Recall that Kris Dunn wouldn't work out for us last draft for that very reason.  Will Markelle Fultz be willing to earn his minutes if selected? How would AB, IT, and Smart react to him taking those minutes when all three are in contract years? Or if we selected Giles, how much is he sitting behind Horford?  What of the 2018 pick?

The Celtics are really in an unprecedented situation, with the amount of high-quality youth they could infuse into an already successful, but not old, team.  And mostly that's good, but there will have to be some careful management by both Ainge and Stevens to take full advantage of the situation.

TP

First World BB problems!!

[celticsclay]

I just want to know WHEN the Timberwolves and the Sixers are going to start WINNING games with all their collective young talent??

Currently the T-Wolves have the 25th record and the Sixers have the 28th!!!!

BTW. the Sixers have a blog and here it is for those interested:

http://www.libertyballers.com/

I think some of you might be more comfortable there:-))))

Smitty77

TP.

I'm sure I probably talk about the 76ers as much as anyone, but, like it or not they are pretty intertwined with us right now because

1) They are directly competing with Brooklyn for one of the worst records in the league and we really want them to have a better record than Brooklyn
2) We could definitely really use Noel and definitely want to avoid Okafor. Both have, at some point, been linked to the Celtics over the last few years so their play and role in the center cluster that exists on the 76ers is of particular interest to the Celtics
3) They are a division rival and we play them 4 times a year including just a few days ago
4) They have as much cap space and assets in the league so any time trade rumors and talk go out they are mentioned as a possible landing spot or third party facilitator
5) Embiid is probably the rookie having the biggest impact since either Blake Griffin or Lebron and has a chance of being an all star in like 27 minutes a game. He is someone a lot of people want to discuss.

[Moranis]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

I'll genuinely be surprised if they aren't a playoff team in the next 3 years.  Even if they were at full strength right now that might be a team that could threaten for a playoff slot (with Embiid off the minutes restriction, Noel getting 20+ minutes and Simmons back).   

Even with Embiid limited to 25 minutes per night and Simmons yet to make his debut, they are about even with the Timberwolves - which says a lot.

Philly is 10-25. Minny is 11-26.

What promise could you or Philly ownership make to the Philly fans that these players will hit their prime wearing a 76ers jersey? I don't see this as a given.

Please post the lengthy list of max guys who declined a max extension to take a qualifying offer.

Don't waste your time, it doesn't exist. There's your evidence.

What does this have to do with the the question proposed?

Young, promising teams get broken up all the time for a variety of reasons.

OKC traded Harden because they couldn't afford him.  If Philly has to dish out more than 2 max contracts, it will get interesting.

Portland fans were probably ecstatic to have a young nucleus of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldrige, and Greg Oden,  but some serious injuries happened along the way.

And there's definitely a long list of players who have demanded trades before their first non-rookie contract was up. Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard.

Other times, that young talent just doesn't develop like you think it would.  Probably too many teams to list that had several high lottery picks together but didn't win squat, but the squad that immediately comes to mind for me is LAC. They teamed #1 pick and ROY Elton Brand with #4 pick and next great point forward Lamar Odom, along with the #3 pick and next KG in Darius Miles.  Besides those 3 can't miss studs, they also had other young players with potential like Olowakandi, Maggette, Richardson, Dooling.  You have to be a pretty special team to make it cool to wear Clippers gear again.

And then not all players get along or are happy to be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option.  Magic fans were thrilled to have Shaq/Penny, but Shaq and Penny butted heads so Shaq left.  Wolves fans were thrilled to have KG/Marbury duo, but Marbury was jealous of KG so he forced a trade   Toronto fans had Carter/McGrady, but McGrady didn't want to play in Carter's shadow so he left.  Phoenix had a sweet nucleus of Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Johnson, and then Joe Johnson said, you know what, I think I'd rather get more shots and more money, so I'm going to leave this stacked 62 win team and join a 13 win team. It happens.

So far, the best example we have of what Philly hopes to do is basically what OKC did 5 years ago, and look how that ended up and where all the players are now.  2 players got traded because the team didn't want to pay them (Harden, Jackson), one player was traded for a role player (Jeff Green for Perk), and even though they kept Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka trio together for 7-8 years, one day Durant just decides to leave for nothing. Not that most fan bases wouldn't love to be OKC from about '10-'16, but there's no guarantee it all works out.

Add the 3 J's in Dallas , The mid 90's Nuggets and Bullets to the list of teams who thought that their future was great with 3 or more young studs acquired through the draft or trades ,The Bucks thought that they had their version of the big three in Robinson, Allen and Cassell , Big Dog and Allen fought for control of the team and both eventually got traded away. League history is filled with dozens of teams with young guys who couldn't co exist or flamed out due to injuries.
This is not to say that the Sixers will end up this way , it is a possibility that Simmons will be the glue guy with his passing to blend in with Embiid and the incoming draft picks that they have coming in this years draft.
But the idea that 6,7,8 lottery picks under the age of 25 is going to seamlessly blend together and be willing to sacrifice shots and playing time for the good of the Sixers is very naive, young guys who get drafted don't care where they play as long as they are given the chance to reach their maximum potential as players and thus get the biggest contract that they can whether it be with the team that drafted them or elsewhere.
My strategy would be to go with Embiid and Simmons along with one of their draft picks and get some quality veterans to surround them as early as next year.If they did that I could easily seeing them with good health win in the upper 30 win region or even crack .500 and get into the lower playoff region.

I think there is a lot of good stuff here. I really enjoy watching Embiid play and really do hope he stays healthy. I am also a bit intrigued by Simmons and think he has a chance to be a great player. However, I do cringe when people talk about the Sixers have 10 (or even 15!) years of dominance based off 35 games from Embiid and without having seen Simmons play. I was pretty high on the Twolves last year because I thought their pieces really fit together well. Now it seems like Wiggins may really only be a slightly above average player, Dieng may just be an average starter and Towns could be more of a one way player. Maybe the Twolves now never become much more than a .500 team with those guys? Then again, maybe they get through some growing teams and become a contender.

There have been a lot of teams in the last 20 years that had two future superstars but for a variety of reasons that others have point out they never amounted to anything. Lets just sit back and enjoy the ride and hold off on annointing the next great thing.

Not all of those players were deemed superstars or franchise players though, and even with that some of those teams had their greatest success before they imploded you know like the Magic making the NBA Finals (they did get back there years later).  Not all high picks are created equal.  To put some of those players in the franchise player level is just silly as they were never considered that type of prospect. 

[bdm860]

And then not all players get along or are happy to be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option.  Magic fans were thrilled to have Shaq/Penny, but Shaq and Penny butted heads so Shaq left.  Wolves fans were thrilled to have KG/Marbury duo, but Marbury was jealous of KG so he forced a trade, Toronto fans had Carter/McGrady, but McGrady didn't want to play in Carter's shadow so he left.  Phoenix had a sweet nucleus of Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Johnson, and then Joe Johnson said, you know what, I think I'd rather get more shots and more money, so I'm going to leave this stacked 62 win team and join a 13 win team. It happens.

Add the 3 J's in Dallas , The mid 90's Nuggets and Bullets to the list of teams who thought that their future was great with 3 or more young studs acquired through the draft or trades ,The Bucks thought that they had their version of the big three in Robinson, Allen and Cassell , Big Dog and Allen fought for control of the team and both eventually got traded away. League history is filled with dozens of teams with young guys who couldn't co exist or flamed out due to injuries.
This is not to say that the Sixers will end up this way , it is a possibility that Simmons will be the glue guy with his passing to blend in with Embiid and the incoming draft picks that they have coming in this years draft.
But the idea that 6,7,8 lottery picks under the age of 25 is going to seamlessly blend together and be willing to sacrifice shots and playing time for the good of the Sixers is very naive, young guys who get drafted don't care where they play as long as they are given the chance to reach their maximum potential as players and thus get the biggest contract that they can whether it be with the team that drafted them or elsewhere.

Thinking more about the ability to co-exist.

I remember the KG/Marbury duo.  I feel like all you ever heard about was how they were best friends.  They did commercials together, magazine covers, etc.  Everyone thought these guys were going to be the next Payton/Kemp or Stockton/Malone for the next 10+ years.  I remember I was shocked to learn there were problems, because they had constantly been painted as best friends.

Same with Vince Carter and TMac, man did the media ever talk up that cousin angle.  "They say they're cousins," says guard Dee Brown. "But Siamese twins is more like it."  They made it seem like these guys grew up together and were always best friends.  Thing is they only found out they were even related a few years earlier when they met at a big family reunion.  But again, everyone thought they were life long best friends, why would either want to break that up?

Similar still with Shaq and Penny.  They did a movie together, Shaq always spoke highly of Penny those first couple of years, you saw them goofing off together at the All-Star games.  Those first 2 years together most people probably thought they were very close and had a tight bond.

I think if you asked most people a year ago, most would have thought Durant and Westbrook were super tight.

All this to say, what actually shakes out in Philly over the next few years will be interesting.

[celticsclay]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

I'll genuinely be surprised if they aren't a playoff team in the next 3 years.  Even if they were at full strength right now that might be a team that could threaten for a playoff slot (with Embiid off the minutes restriction, Noel getting 20+ minutes and Simmons back).   

Even with Embiid limited to 25 minutes per night and Simmons yet to make his debut, they are about even with the Timberwolves - which says a lot.

Philly is 10-25. Minny is 11-26.

What promise could you or Philly ownership make to the Philly fans that these players will hit their prime wearing a 76ers jersey? I don't see this as a given.

Please post the lengthy list of max guys who declined a max extension to take a qualifying offer.

Don't waste your time, it doesn't exist. There's your evidence.

What does this have to do with the the question proposed?

Young, promising teams get broken up all the time for a variety of reasons.

OKC traded Harden because they couldn't afford him.  If Philly has to dish out more than 2 max contracts, it will get interesting.

Portland fans were probably ecstatic to have a young nucleus of Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldrige, and Greg Oden,  but some serious injuries happened along the way.

And there's definitely a long list of players who have demanded trades before their first non-rookie contract was up. Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard.

Other times, that young talent just doesn't develop like you think it would.  Probably too many teams to list that had several high lottery picks together but didn't win squat, but the squad that immediately comes to mind for me is LAC. They teamed #1 pick and ROY Elton Brand with #4 pick and next great point forward Lamar Odom, along with the #3 pick and next KG in Darius Miles.  Besides those 3 can't miss studs, they also had other young players with potential like Olowakandi, Maggette, Richardson, Dooling.  You have to be a pretty special team to make it cool to wear Clippers gear again.

And then not all players get along or are happy to be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option.  Magic fans were thrilled to have Shaq/Penny, but Shaq and Penny butted heads so Shaq left.  Wolves fans were thrilled to have KG/Marbury duo, but Marbury was jealous of KG so he forced a trade   Toronto fans had Carter/McGrady, but McGrady didn't want to play in Carter's shadow so he left.  Phoenix had a sweet nucleus of Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Johnson, and then Joe Johnson said, you know what, I think I'd rather get more shots and more money, so I'm going to leave this stacked 62 win team and join a 13 win team. It happens.

So far, the best example we have of what Philly hopes to do is basically what OKC did 5 years ago, and look how that ended up and where all the players are now.  2 players got traded because the team didn't want to pay them (Harden, Jackson), one player was traded for a role player (Jeff Green for Perk), and even though they kept Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka trio together for 7-8 years, one day Durant just decides to leave for nothing. Not that most fan bases wouldn't love to be OKC from about '10-'16, but there's no guarantee it all works out.

Add the 3 J's in Dallas , The mid 90's Nuggets and Bullets to the list of teams who thought that their future was great with 3 or more young studs acquired through the draft or trades ,The Bucks thought that they had their version of the big three in Robinson, Allen and Cassell , Big Dog and Allen fought for control of the team and both eventually got traded away. League history is filled with dozens of teams with young guys who couldn't co exist or flamed out due to injuries.
This is not to say that the Sixers will end up this way , it is a possibility that Simmons will be the glue guy with his passing to blend in with Embiid and the incoming draft picks that they have coming in this years draft.
But the idea that 6,7,8 lottery picks under the age of 25 is going to seamlessly blend together and be willing to sacrifice shots and playing time for the good of the Sixers is very naive, young guys who get drafted don't care where they play as long as they are given the chance to reach their maximum potential as players and thus get the biggest contract that they can whether it be with the team that drafted them or elsewhere.
My strategy would be to go with Embiid and Simmons along with one of their draft picks and get some quality veterans to surround them as early as next year.If they did that I could easily seeing them with good health win in the upper 30 win region or even crack .500 and get into the lower playoff region.

I think there is a lot of good stuff here. I really enjoy watching Embiid play and really do hope he stays healthy. I am also a bit intrigued by Simmons and think he has a chance to be a great player. However, I do cringe when people talk about the Sixers have 10 (or even 15!) years of dominance based off 35 games from Embiid and without having seen Simmons play. I was pretty high on the Twolves last year because I thought their pieces really fit together well. Now it seems like Wiggins may really only be a slightly above average player, Dieng may just be an average starter and Towns could be more of a one way player. Maybe the Twolves now never become much more than a .500 team with those guys? Then again, maybe they get through some growing teams and become a contender.

There have been a lot of teams in the last 20 years that had two future superstars but for a variety of reasons that others have point out they never amounted to anything. Lets just sit back and enjoy the ride and hold off on annointing the next great thing.

Not all of those players were deemed superstars or franchise players though, and even with that some of those teams had their greatest success before they imploded you know like the Magic making the NBA Finals (they did get back there years later).  Not all high picks are created equal.  To put some of those players in the franchise player level is just silly as they were never considered that type of prospect.

Just for clarification Moranish are you trying to suggest it is somehow relevant the Magic made the finals in 2009 with Dwight Howard as related to Penny and Shaq breaking up after one finals trip in 1995? Also I am not sure what players you are referencing as silly to be considered franchise players
Shaq
Penny
Tracy McGrady
Vince Carty
Marbury
KG
Westbrook
Durant
Harden
Kidd

Those were the players I think most posters were referencing as future stars and players that were thought to be future superstars later in the career. Although those guys combined to make 2 finals with their team that drafted them (magic and penny, and the thunder players). I know some other players were mentioned as players that were thought to be part of a promising nucleus (like Jeff Green, Ibaka, Marion), but the general point of the argument is that there were a bunch of teams thought to have future superstars along with some nice young pieces and very few really went on to do anything. This is a completely valid point. If anything is silly it is lumping Embiid and Simmons in as clear future superstars with the above mentioned players after a combined 30 games out of the two of them and Simmons never playing NBA basketball.

[oldtype]

I'm happy for Philly fans that they are excited.  It will make it even more fun when the are starting over again, again, in a couple, four, five years.

Sam Hinkie wasn't much of a GM, but he was a heck of a marketer.  Lots of teams have taken a similar approach in the past; before it was called the "process," it was known by the less catchy slogan, "really sucking for a really long time."

I'll take people who have no idea what they're talking about for 2000 Alec.

Name one bad Sam Hinkie trade. Seriously. Name one.

Got me.

Electing not to take Isaiah Thomas as a throw-in in the MCW deal.