Mannix on OMF radio show.

[blink]

Perhaps we need to acknowledge that brown, much like Rozier, was a chemistry problem this season that helped sink our season. Brown was disastrous in the early part of the season, started sulking, attempted to force the issue and got worse ... and eventually started making positive contributions, but the Jackie mac article about him earlier in the year painted the picture of him as aloof and detached. We saw on multiple occasions vets like smart and Morris rip into him publicly for blown defensive assignments or not making the right play.  Kyrie alluded to the young guys needing to focus and buy in, but fans just took the side of the young guys and whined that kyrie threw them under the bus...  perhaps they deserved to be thrown under the bus. 

Perhaps Brown and Rozier both let the fluke playoff run get to their heads and were problems this year.

At least brown got his act together

And so Tatum gets a bye in all this cause he is bff with Kyrie?  Oh please, Tatum's development / play / attitude was at least as big of an issue as Brown's was.  For that whole last 3-4 months of the season there were a lot of times where it seemed like Tatum needed to be benched because of his selfish play.

Of the 3, Brown was the only one that actually went through adversity and accepted it and got better as the year went along. 

[LarBrd33]

Perhaps we need to acknowledge that brown, much like Rozier, was a chemistry problem this season that helped sink our season. Brown was disastrous in the early part of the season, started sulking, attempted to force the issue and got worse ... and eventually started making positive contributions, but the Jackie mac article about him earlier in the year painted the picture of him as aloof and detached. We saw on multiple occasions vets like smart and Morris rip into him publicly for blown defensive assignments or not making the right play.  Kyrie alluded to the young guys needing to focus and buy in, but fans just took the side of the young guys and whined that kyrie threw them under the bus...  perhaps they deserved to be thrown under the bus. 

Perhaps Brown and Rozier both let the fluke playoff run get to their heads and were problems this year.

Probably, but Kyrie was a flake who lacked even basic leadership skills, as well.  Kyrie has done this type of thing before.  Celtics fans are acting like the guy who starts dating a smoking hot woman while she's still in a relationship, and then gets surprised when that woman steps out on them.

We took a risk on a volatile star, and it worked out for about a year or so, before falling apart.  Sometimes, things don't work out.

I still think the “leadership skills” thing is overblown.  He wasn’t Kg, but he was probably a better leader than Pierce.

[PhoSita]

Perhaps we need to acknowledge that brown, much like Rozier, was a chemistry problem this season that helped sink our season. Brown was disastrous in the early part of the season, started sulking, attempted to force the issue and got worse ... and eventually started making positive contributions, but the Jackie mac article about him earlier in the year painted the picture of him as aloof and detached. We saw on multiple occasions vets like smart and Morris rip into him publicly for blown defensive assignments or not making the right play.  Kyrie alluded to the young guys needing to focus and buy in, but fans just took the side of the young guys and whined that kyrie threw them under the bus...  perhaps they deserved to be thrown under the bus. 

Perhaps Brown and Rozier both let the fluke playoff run get to their heads and were problems this year.

Thing is, you expect young guys to have trouble dealing with adversity and adjusting to different (especially smaller) roles.


You look to the best player on your team to provide leadership and help pull the locker room together.  You look to your best player to get the supporting players to feel involved and to buy in to the team's collective mission.


Kyrie failed at doing that.  Maybe his younger teammates were being a pain in the butt, but it's his job to find a positive way to deal with it, not throw them under the bus.  The fact that he chose to deal with it the way he did reflects badly on him much more than it reflect badly on them. 

That's a much bigger problem to me than the fact that Terry and Jaylen had a hard time adjusting to being relegated to relatively minor roles after what they accomplished in the 2018 playoffs.



Luckily, Kyrie's lack of leadership skills and overall personality issues are no longer our problem.

I'm not worried about Jaylen moving forward. 

If the team re-signs Terry, I will be concerned if they try to put him in a lesser role again.  If he's slated in a starting role getting significant minutes, I think he'll probably do fine and be able to recoup his value.  Though I certainly have no interest in committing to Terry as the long term starter.

[gpap]

This is going to be a long, miserable season!!!!!!

-Kyrie's gone
-No Conley
-No Capela
-No AD

Where basically stuck with the same team as last year, but without Kyrie.

Wow....where did it all go so wrong?

Don't forget that team last year without Kyrie went to the ECF.  Add a healthy Hayward...Who knows it might surprise you. I loved the grit of that team.

Here we go again.....the Eastern Conference sucked that year, that's why the Celts made it so far. Had nothing to do with grit.

how did the bucks suck that year

Because Giannis wasn't half the player in '18 that he was in '19. Also that Bucks team in '18 had some doofus for a coach, and the supporting cast was nowhere nearly as good. This year, Giannis took a major leap forward and the team acquired Brook Lopez, Mirotic, George Hill and a better coach in Mike Budenholzer. The Bucks from '18 and from '19 were like night and day.

Both Toronto and Milwaukee improved drastically while Ainge was waiting like a deer in the headlights for Anthony Davis.

[footey]

My guess is Brown challenged Kyrie on and off the floor. Called BS on a lot of what Kyrie said about the team as well as real world issues.

Kyrie got mad and took his ball and went home.

What I find most interesting is that Marcus Smart publicly backed Kyrie at the time Kyrie and Brown were having a public spat.  Tells me all I need to know about who was right (Kyrie) and who was being a baby (Brown).

I think Marcus was just trying to hold everything together at that point.

Agree. He was trying to salvage Irving’s return. Team guy.

[jpotter33]

Diva. Sounds like Kyrie was as much of a problem as the young guys, and certainly didn’t display any leadership skills in trying to manage that conflict. And how’d that “turn it on in the playoffs philosophy” work for ya, Kyrie? Too much Lebron rubbing off on ya.

Yeah, I’ve said all along that if no AD then I’d be okay with no Kyrie, too, as I think his style did hold back some of the youngsters. Also think that people here are underrating how good we can be this year, especially with expected jumps from Hayward, Tatum, and Brown.

[nickagneta]

Regarding Jaylen Brown's intelligence and maybe it rubbing people the wrong way, that can happen to very intelligent people. When young and not fully mature, very intelligent people sometimes like to show off that intelligence and it can turn people off.

Brown, in his third year at 22 years old was voted as an executive vice president of the NBA Players Association. They don't give those types of positions to faux intellectual 22 year olds. Brown has to be pretty dang smart to come into a position like that in the NBPA at his age.

[jpotter33]

Interesting. 

Most of that stuff isn't surprising, and has been speculated about, but I didn't know the Kyrie / Brown relationship was that bitter.  Tense, yes, but actual hate / intense dislike?  But, I guess it makes sense.  Jaylen is an actually intelligent guy.  He likes to think about real issues, and he's pretty thoughtful.  Kyrie is like Stephon Marbury after he's eaten some paste.  Just complete random nonsense, disguised as intellectualism.  With Kyrie, I suspect that you either laugh at his idiocy and don't take it at all seriously, or you hate the guy.  When the idiot in the locker room is calling you out in the media and saying you're not pulling your weight, I guess that's going to make things harder to take.  Not everybody suffers fools gladly, and that sounds like what we have here.

Wow TP. I’ve never heard it put more accurately, but this hit the nail on the head.

I’ve always appreciated Kyrie’s basketball talent, but he definitely always has come off as a faux-intellectual to me.

[IDreamCeltics]

Also, forgot this, he says if Kyrie didn't like Stevens and the Boston youth, he is not going to enjoy being in Brooklyn as they are tremendously young and their coach is about as close to a Stevens clone as you are going to get. He said Atchinson and Marks did things extremely similar to Stevens and Ainge.

A lot needs to change for Kyrie to be happy and it has nothing to do with coaches, personel, or cities. 

It has everything to do with Kyrie.   

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Regarding Jaylen Brown's intelligence and maybe it rubbing people the wrong way, that can happen to very intelligent people. When young and not fully mature, very intelligent people sometimes like to show off that intelligence and it can turn people off.

Brown, in his third year at 22 years old was voted as an executive vice president of the NBA Players Association. They don't give those types of positions to faux intellectual 22 year olds. Brown has to be pretty dang smart to come into a position like that in the NBPA at his age.

Intellectuals also often lack even basic social skills, which can also rub people the wrong way.

[footey]

Well if all of what was said on that show is true, maybe it is just better for KI to move on anyways.

DA isn't getting rid of Stevens no matter what, and highly unlikely he is trading away one of our top players who is on a great rookie contract right now.  It just sucks that the C's couldn't get something back in return for Kyrie leaving.

With all the other reports linking KI to the Nets, his new agent, and him supposedly moving out of his house....well it looks like a done deal.

If Kyrie came into Ainge's office and said, "If you trade away JB and don't re-sign Terry, I will stay," you would have to do it, right? I get that this is extremely unlikely - this is more of a 'take care and good luck' meeting - but it would be pretty easy to clean up the mess if all Kyrie wants is to replace a couple of the young guys with veterans.

I like Brown as a person WAYYYYY better than Kyrie and still believe in his potential, but Ainge needs to be all-in on keeping Kyrie if there is even still a smidgen of hope.

I wouldn’t.

[IDreamCeltics]

Kyrie didn't like the control Stevens had on the team and Stevens game in and game out philosophy. Stevens wants to win every game and get better every game whereas, Kyrie want to float during the season then turn it on late and in the playoffs.

This is where I call bull. Part of the post-Orlando game blow up was because we were losing. Kyrie saying "we can't be happy being 5th" seems to go against him just being fine cruising. He changed his tune later to "we'll be fine in the playoffs" once it become clear we weren't going to make up enough ground in the standings to move up.

I also think it's some serious revisionist history to think Kyrie coasted in the regular season. Aside from the stats - which were All-NBA worthy - he worked harder on defense than at any point in his career. There's just no evidence that he wanted to coast during the regular season.

If anything he tried much harder on defense during the regular season than he did in the playoffs.  He was literally a non-participant defensively against the Bucks. 

[td450]

"Kyrie didn't like the control Stevens had on the team and Stevens game in and game out philosophy. Stevens wants to win every game and get better every game whereas, Kyrie want to float during the season then turn it on late and in the playoffs."

----

Contemplate just how lame it is for a player like Kyrie to push back on a coach wanting the team to focus, work hard and improve all season.

We don't know the nature of Brown's conflicts with Kyrie. He could be acting immaturely, or he might react exactly the way you'd want a competitive, intelligent young player to act when dealing with a problematic teammate. We'll probably get to read all about it quite soon.

I also find the clips of Brown turning his head and getting beat to the rim a little selective. I've seen Smart do some incomprehensibly stupid things, including getting cut back door, and no one tries harder than him. I've seen every player on the team do it multiple times. Brown's overall effort and effectiveness on defense is pretty great for a player that young. His focus is well above average.

[nickagneta]

Regarding Jaylen Brown's intelligence and maybe it rubbing people the wrong way, that can happen to very intelligent people. When young and not fully mature, very intelligent people sometimes like to show off that intelligence and it can turn people off.

Brown, in his third year at 22 years old was voted as an executive vice president of the NBA Players Association. They don't give those types of positions to faux intellectual 22 year olds. Brown has to be pretty dang smart to come into a position like that in the NBPA at his age.

Intellectuals also often lack even basic social skills, which can also rub people the wrong way.

Right on the mark. My youngest son at 24 is just starting to mature to the point where his people skills are setting in. Kid is off the charts intelligent but man, did he like to let everyone know it and he would never admit he was wrong and would argue with people all the time. His teachers used to call him a little lawyer because he would debate them and find loopholes in their instructions to him all the time.

[keevsnick]

Perhaps we need to acknowledge that brown, much like Rozier, was a chemistry problem this season that helped sink our season. Brown was disastrous in the early part of the season, started sulking, attempted to force the issue and got worse ... and eventually started making positive contributions, but the Jackie mac article about him earlier in the year painted the picture of him as aloof and detached. We saw on multiple occasions vets like smart and Morris rip into him publicly for blown defensive assignments or not making the right play.  Kyrie alluded to the young guys needing to focus and buy in, but fans just took the side of the young guys and whined that kyrie threw them under the bus...  perhaps they deserved to be thrown under the bus. 

Perhaps Brown and Rozier both let the fluke playoff run get to their heads and were problems this year.

Or maybe we need to acknowledge that Irving was and is a cancer and praise Brown for standing up to him. I honestly don't know. What I do know if Irving time and time again was an awful teammate this year. Did brown blow assignments? Sure. But those are on court mistakes, its not for sure  indictive of attitude problems off the court. I do know that everybody who knows anything about the Celtics including Stevens goes out of there way to praise how Brown adapted too the year. Nobody seems to be praising Irving for adapting to the situation.

Then theres the fact that Brown stepped up in the playoffs, and Irving shot them out of a series. No doubt Brown had his struggles, many of them mental, but it seems like he learned something at least. And when all is said and done it looks like Brown is gonna be here going forward, and Irving is not.