Author Topic: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18  (Read 13345 times)

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Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #90 on: July 14, 2018, 08:26:38 PM »

Offline liam

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Henry can not defend at all....

He's made some pretty big defensive plays. I think he played that one pretty well. He was on an island, almost forced a turnover, and then contested a tough runner.

He's had a good game on one end but guys have been blazing by him all game on the other end...

That's not what I've seen from him.

Fair enough. He did have a couple of steals and played team D alright but he could not play one on one defense that I saw in this game....

I also like Henry's motor he does hustle....

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #91 on: July 14, 2018, 08:26:55 PM »

Offline blink

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Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #92 on: July 14, 2018, 09:12:22 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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He is not elite. He’s a good defender. He can’t hit threes. There will be few minutes.

Care to make a minutes prediction?

I take it you would at least agree that he’s elite at staying in front of his man and getting a hand up to contest (i.e.: quick hips and shoulders combined with anticipation), and that those are the most important skills for a defender. If not then we don’t need to waste time getting into the finer points.

You may remember after a game with Phoenix this past season that Brad remarked on his defense, saying something like he was on his way to being an elite defender, “and I’m not sure he isn’t there already.”
Semi is not elite or even near elite in any facet of the game. He’s a pretty good defender, which is impressive given he was drafted in the second round, but calling him elite is a major exaggeration. As for a minutes prediction, I’d guess five minutes per game or so, with a lot more dnp-cd’s than a lot of people think unless an injury opens a spot for him. If Smart stays he is the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th if Wanamaker can contribute. Hard to see a guy that far down the roster who can’t shoot, pass, dribble or finish at the rim getting a lot of time. The Celts have much better options.

Yeah, if the team is healthy he won’t see a lot of minutes. But that’s a sign of how very deep the team is. If they had to put him in you can have confidence in his defense and you can have him sit in the corners and the other team can’t  leave him alone.
FWIW, Brad Stevens says Semi is an elite defender.

I would say Semi is def at least an above-average defender...
Unless I missed a quote somewhere, I thought Brad said he could be an elite defender one day, and wasn't too far from it. That 's not the same as Brad saying he is right now an elite defender. I've never denied Semi is a good defender, a very good defender even. He's just not elite right now, which is actually what Brad said. I certainly would not dispute Brad's judgement, but I also think coaches engage in trying to pump up the confidence of  young guys in an effort to get max effort out of them.

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #93 on: July 14, 2018, 09:18:02 PM »

Offline feckless

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semi's defense against the greek freak was elite, he was the best on the C's in that role 
he was crucial to that series
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 09:25:40 PM by feckless »
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #94 on: July 14, 2018, 09:18:47 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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He is not elite. He’s a good defender. He can’t hit threes. There will be few minutes.

Care to make a minutes prediction?

I take it you would at least agree that he’s elite at staying in front of his man and getting a hand up to contest (i.e.: quick hips and shoulders combined with anticipation), and that those are the most important skills for a defender. If not then we don’t need to waste time getting into the finer points.

You may remember after a game with Phoenix this past season that Brad remarked on his defense, saying something like he was on his way to being an elite defender, “and I’m not sure he isn’t there already.”
Semi is not elite or even near elite in any facet of the game. He’s a pretty good defender, which is impressive given he was drafted in the second round, but calling him elite is a major exaggeration. As for a minutes prediction, I’d guess five minutes per game or so, with a lot more dnp-cd’s than a lot of people think unless an injury opens a spot for him. If Smart stays he is the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th if Wanamaker can contribute. Hard to see a guy that far down the roster who can’t shoot, pass, dribble or finish at the rim getting a lot of time. The Celts have much better options.

I don’t think much of your scouting. You’re going to be surprised.
Maybe, I've never claimed any special insight. I just haven't seen enough to make me think he's going to be anything more than a defensive sub off the bench. I don't understand why so many people think he's going to be a big time player. What have you all seen in NBA action that gives you such confidence.
His defense will get him on the roster, it will get him some spot minutes when rotation guys get in foul trouble or need a night off. It makes him playable when a rotation guy goes down with an injury. But unless he finds a way to contribute on offense, I don't see why they would put him in the rotation. Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris, Theis and even Smart should get minutes before Semi.
He's the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th. How many minutes can we expect the 11th or 12th man to get?

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #95 on: July 14, 2018, 09:22:40 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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semi's defense against the greek freak was elite, he was the best on the C's in that role
I don't agree. He had a couple of really amazing stops on Giannis it is true, but as I recall, Giannis was able to score at his normal rate against Semi. It's certainly impressive that he didn't get crushed by Giannis, but keep in mind Giannis' game is mostly a function of his athleticism, not great moves like Hakeem. Semi has the physical skills to stay with Giannis, but he makes his share of defensive mistakes.

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #96 on: July 14, 2018, 09:27:33 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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He is not elite. He’s a good defender. He can’t hit threes. There will be few minutes.

Care to make a minutes prediction?

I take it you would at least agree that he’s elite at staying in front of his man and getting a hand up to contest (i.e.: quick hips and shoulders combined with anticipation), and that those are the most important skills for a defender. If not then we don’t need to waste time getting into the finer points.

You may remember after a game with Phoenix this past season that Brad remarked on his defense, saying something like he was on his way to being an elite defender, “and I’m not sure he isn’t there already.”
Semi is not elite or even near elite in any facet of the game. He’s a pretty good defender, which is impressive given he was drafted in the second round, but calling him elite is a major exaggeration. As for a minutes prediction, I’d guess five minutes per game or so, with a lot more dnp-cd’s than a lot of people think unless an injury opens a spot for him. If Smart stays he is the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th if Wanamaker can contribute. Hard to see a guy that far down the roster who can’t shoot, pass, dribble or finish at the rim getting a lot of time. The Celts have much better options.

I don’t think much of your scouting. You’re going to be surprised.
Maybe, I've never claimed any special insight. I just haven't seen enough to make me think he's going to be anything more than a defensive sub off the bench. I don't understand why so many people think he's going to be a big time player. What have you all seen in NBA action that gives you such confidence.
His defense will get him on the roster, it will get him some spot minutes when rotation guys get in foul trouble or need a night off. It makes him playable when a rotation guy goes down with an injury. But unless he finds a way to contribute on offense, I don't see why they would put him in the rotation. Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris, Theis and even Smart should get minutes before Semi.
He's the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th. How many minutes can we expect the 11th or 12th man to get?

Agreed.

People get really carried away with this elite defender stuff. He plays good positional defense, but he's doesn't have the length to contest many shots and isn't going to be active in passing lanes either.

Offensively he doesn't have one single skill that you can say is even average. For his position, 3/4, he's a below average shooter, ball handler, passer, and doesn't have great instincts moving without the ball like a Hayward, Bradley, or even J. Bird have. People might look at his low 30's shooting percentage and think it's not too bad, but these are wide open shots he's taking and mostly shorter corner shots. Teams just ignore him, using his defender to help, which hurts are spacing and bogs down our offense.

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #97 on: July 14, 2018, 09:29:46 PM »

Offline feckless

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semi's defense against the greek freak was elite, he was the best on the C's in that role
I don't agree. He had a couple of really amazing stops on Giannis it is true, but as I recall, Giannis was able to score at his normal rate against Semi. It's certainly impressive that he didn't get crushed by Giannis, but keep in mind Giannis' game is mostly a function of his athleticism, not great moves like Hakeem. Semi has the physical skills to stay with Giannis, but he makes his share of defensive mistakes.
that he did not get crushed was the best we had--making Giannis work as hard as Semi did was a huge factor in the C' defeating the freak
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #98 on: July 14, 2018, 09:32:05 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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He is not elite. He’s a good defender. He can’t hit threes. There will be few minutes.

Care to make a minutes prediction?

I take it you would at least agree that he’s elite at staying in front of his man and getting a hand up to contest (i.e.: quick hips and shoulders combined with anticipation), and that those are the most important skills for a defender. If not then we don’t need to waste time getting into the finer points.

You may remember after a game with Phoenix this past season that Brad remarked on his defense, saying something like he was on his way to being an elite defender, “and I’m not sure he isn’t there already.”
Semi is not elite or even near elite in any facet of the game. He’s a pretty good defender, which is impressive given he was drafted in the second round, but calling him elite is a major exaggeration. As for a minutes prediction, I’d guess five minutes per game or so, with a lot more dnp-cd’s than a lot of people think unless an injury opens a spot for him. If Smart stays he is the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th if Wanamaker can contribute. Hard to see a guy that far down the roster who can’t shoot, pass, dribble or finish at the rim getting a lot of time. The Celts have much better options.

I don’t think much of your scouting. You’re going to be surprised.
Maybe, I've never claimed any special insight. I just haven't seen enough to make me think he's going to be anything more than a defensive sub off the bench. I don't understand why so many people think he's going to be a big time player. What have you all seen in NBA action that gives you such confidence.
His defense will get him on the roster, it will get him some spot minutes when rotation guys get in foul trouble or need a night off. It makes him playable when a rotation guy goes down with an injury. But unless he finds a way to contribute on offense, I don't see why they would put him in the rotation. Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris, Theis and even Smart should get minutes before Semi.
He's the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th. How many minutes can we expect the 11th or 12th man to get?

Agreed.

People get really carried away with this elite defender stuff. He plays good positional defense, but he's doesn't have the length to contest many shots and isn't going to be active in passing lanes either.

Offensively he doesn't have one single skill that you can say is even average. For his position, 3/4, he's a below average shooter, ball handler, passer, and doesn't have great instincts moving without the ball like a Hayward, Bradley, or even J. Bird have. People might look at his low 30's shooting percentage and think it's not too bad, but these are wide open shots he's taking and mostly shorter corner shots. Teams just ignore him, using his defender to help, which hurts are spacing and bogs down our offense.
I agree with all of this. And the fact that his three point shooting has not looked any better in summer league is concerning. If he can't shoot threes in summer league, how can we possibly expect him to shoot them in the NBA.

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #99 on: July 14, 2018, 09:33:14 PM »

Offline feckless

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semi's defense against the greek freak was elite, he was the best on the C's in that role
I don't agree. He had a couple of really amazing stops on Giannis it is true, but as I recall, Giannis was able to score at his normal rate against Semi. It's certainly impressive that he didn't get crushed by Giannis, but keep in mind Giannis' game is mostly a function of his athleticism, not great moves like Hakeem. Semi has the physical skills to stay with Giannis, but he makes his share of defensive mistakes.
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #100 on: July 14, 2018, 09:33:51 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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He is not elite. He’s a good defender. He can’t hit threes. There will be few minutes.

Care to make a minutes prediction?

I take it you would at least agree that he’s elite at staying in front of his man and getting a hand up to contest (i.e.: quick hips and shoulders combined with anticipation), and that those are the most important skills for a defender. If not then we don’t need to waste time getting into the finer points.

You may remember after a game with Phoenix this past season that Brad remarked on his defense, saying something like he was on his way to being an elite defender, “and I’m not sure he isn’t there already.”
Semi is not elite or even near elite in any facet of the game. He’s a pretty good defender, which is impressive given he was drafted in the second round, but calling him elite is a major exaggeration. As for a minutes prediction, I’d guess five minutes per game or so, with a lot more dnp-cd’s than a lot of people think unless an injury opens a spot for him. If Smart stays he is the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th if Wanamaker can contribute. Hard to see a guy that far down the roster who can’t shoot, pass, dribble or finish at the rim getting a lot of time. The Celts have much better options.

I don’t think much of your scouting. You’re going to be surprised.
Maybe, I've never claimed any special insight. I just haven't seen enough to make me think he's going to be anything more than a defensive sub off the bench. I don't understand why so many people think he's going to be a big time player. What have you all seen in NBA action that gives you such confidence.
His defense will get him on the roster, it will get him some spot minutes when rotation guys get in foul trouble or need a night off. It makes him playable when a rotation guy goes down with an injury. But unless he finds a way to contribute on offense, I don't see why they would put him in the rotation. Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris, Theis and even Smart should get minutes before Semi.
He's the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th. How many minutes can we expect the 11th or 12th man to get?

Agreed.

People get really carried away with this elite defender stuff. He plays good positional defense, but he's doesn't have the length to contest many shots and isn't going to be active in passing lanes either.

Offensively he doesn't have one single skill that you can say is even average. For his position, 3/4, he's a below average shooter, ball handler, passer, and doesn't have great instincts moving without the ball like a Hayward, Bradley, or even J. Bird have. People might look at his low 30's shooting percentage and think it's not too bad, but these are wide open shots he's taking and mostly shorter corner shots. Teams just ignore him, using his defender to help, which hurts are spacing and bogs down our offense.
I agree with all of this. And the fact that his three point shooting has not looked any better in summer league is concerning. If he can't shoot threes in summer league, how can we possibly expect him to shoot them in the NBA.

Who shoots well in summer league?

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #101 on: July 14, 2018, 09:35:19 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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semi's defense against the greek freak was elite, he was the best on the C's in that role
I don't agree. He had a couple of really amazing stops on Giannis it is true, but as I recall, Giannis was able to score at his normal rate against Semi. It's certainly impressive that he didn't get crushed by Giannis, but keep in mind Giannis' game is mostly a function of his athleticism, not great moves like Hakeem. Semi has the physical skills to stay with Giannis, but he makes his share of defensive mistakes.
that he did not get crushed was the best we had--making Giannis work as hard as Semi did was a huge factor in the C' defeating the freak
Don't get me wrong, he's impressed on defense, and he definitely helped on Giannis. But I think that if you had a healthy Hayward on the roster, Semi wouldn't have played very much and the Celts would have won the series more easily. Their offensive woes held them back much more than any defensive problems. And Hayward is a pretty good defender too, while also being an excellent offensive player. It's hard to argue that Semi should get any minutes ahead of Hayward or Tatum, or Brown, or Morris, or Smart, or Theis, or Baynes, or Horford...

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #102 on: July 14, 2018, 09:41:27 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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He is not elite. He’s a good defender. He can’t hit threes. There will be few minutes.

Care to make a minutes prediction?

I take it you would at least agree that he’s elite at staying in front of his man and getting a hand up to contest (i.e.: quick hips and shoulders combined with anticipation), and that those are the most important skills for a defender. If not then we don’t need to waste time getting into the finer points.

You may remember after a game with Phoenix this past season that Brad remarked on his defense, saying something like he was on his way to being an elite defender, “and I’m not sure he isn’t there already.”
Semi is not elite or even near elite in any facet of the game. He’s a pretty good defender, which is impressive given he was drafted in the second round, but calling him elite is a major exaggeration. As for a minutes prediction, I’d guess five minutes per game or so, with a lot more dnp-cd’s than a lot of people think unless an injury opens a spot for him. If Smart stays he is the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th if Wanamaker can contribute. Hard to see a guy that far down the roster who can’t shoot, pass, dribble or finish at the rim getting a lot of time. The Celts have much better options.

I don’t think much of your scouting. You’re going to be surprised.
Maybe, I've never claimed any special insight. I just haven't seen enough to make me think he's going to be anything more than a defensive sub off the bench. I don't understand why so many people think he's going to be a big time player. What have you all seen in NBA action that gives you such confidence.
His defense will get him on the roster, it will get him some spot minutes when rotation guys get in foul trouble or need a night off. It makes him playable when a rotation guy goes down with an injury. But unless he finds a way to contribute on offense, I don't see why they would put him in the rotation. Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris, Theis and even Smart should get minutes before Semi.
He's the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th. How many minutes can we expect the 11th or 12th man to get?

Agreed.

People get really carried away with this elite defender stuff. He plays good positional defense, but he's doesn't have the length to contest many shots and isn't going to be active in passing lanes either.

Offensively he doesn't have one single skill that you can say is even average. For his position, 3/4, he's a below average shooter, ball handler, passer, and doesn't have great instincts moving without the ball like a Hayward, Bradley, or even J. Bird have. People might look at his low 30's shooting percentage and think it's not too bad, but these are wide open shots he's taking and mostly shorter corner shots. Teams just ignore him, using his defender to help, which hurts are spacing and bogs down our offense.
I agree with all of this. And the fact that his three point shooting has not looked any better in summer league is concerning. If he can't shoot threes in summer league, how can we possibly expect him to shoot them in the NBA.

Who shoots well in summer league?
But he has also shown that he can't shoot well in the NBA. Why are we supposed to think that is going to change?

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #103 on: July 14, 2018, 10:03:04 PM »

Offline moiso

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semi's defense against the greek freak was elite, he was the best on the C's in that role 
he was crucial to that series
Giannis shot much better against the Celtics in the playoffs than he did for the entire regular season. 

Re: Celtics (3-1) vs Heat (2-2) Vegas SL Game 5 7/14/18
« Reply #104 on: July 15, 2018, 10:11:15 AM »

Offline chilidawg

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He is not elite. He’s a good defender. He can’t hit threes. There will be few minutes.

Care to make a minutes prediction?

I take it you would at least agree that he’s elite at staying in front of his man and getting a hand up to contest (i.e.: quick hips and shoulders combined with anticipation), and that those are the most important skills for a defender. If not then we don’t need to waste time getting into the finer points.

You may remember after a game with Phoenix this past season that Brad remarked on his defense, saying something like he was on his way to being an elite defender, “and I’m not sure he isn’t there already.”
Semi is not elite or even near elite in any facet of the game. He’s a pretty good defender, which is impressive given he was drafted in the second round, but calling him elite is a major exaggeration. As for a minutes prediction, I’d guess five minutes per game or so, with a lot more dnp-cd’s than a lot of people think unless an injury opens a spot for him. If Smart stays he is the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th if Wanamaker can contribute. Hard to see a guy that far down the roster who can’t shoot, pass, dribble or finish at the rim getting a lot of time. The Celts have much better options.

I don’t think much of your scouting. You’re going to be surprised.
Maybe, I've never claimed any special insight. I just haven't seen enough to make me think he's going to be anything more than a defensive sub off the bench. I don't understand why so many people think he's going to be a big time player. What have you all seen in NBA action that gives you such confidence.
His defense will get him on the roster, it will get him some spot minutes when rotation guys get in foul trouble or need a night off. It makes him playable when a rotation guy goes down with an injury. But unless he finds a way to contribute on offense, I don't see why they would put him in the rotation. Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris, Theis and even Smart should get minutes before Semi.
He's the 11th man on the roster at best, maybe 12th. How many minutes can we expect the 11th or 12th man to get?

Agreed.

People get really carried away with this elite defender stuff. He plays good positional defense, but he's doesn't have the length to contest many shots and isn't going to be active in passing lanes either.

Offensively he doesn't have one single skill that you can say is even average. For his position, 3/4, he's a below average shooter, ball handler, passer, and doesn't have great instincts moving without the ball like a Hayward, Bradley, or even J. Bird have. People might look at his low 30's shooting percentage and think it's not too bad, but these are wide open shots he's taking and mostly shorter corner shots. Teams just ignore him, using his defender to help, which hurts are spacing and bogs down our offense.
I agree with all of this. And the fact that his three point shooting has not looked any better in summer league is concerning. If he can't shoot threes in summer league, how can we possibly expect him to shoot them in the NBA.

Who shoots well in summer league?
But he has also shown that he can't shoot well in the NBA. Why are we supposed to think that is going to change?

Because he was just a rookie last year, and frequently rookies are much better in their second season.