In retrospect what do you now think about the PSU scandal?

[D.o.s.]

I missed this when it came out in November apparently.  Confirms what I always suspected, the NCAA had no real grounds or jurisdiction to do anything to Penn State.

http://onwardstate.com/2014/11/05/internal-emails-show-ncaa-questioned-jurisdiction-over-penn-state/

“We could try to assert jurisdiction on this issue and may be successful but it’d be a stretch,” wrote former NCAA Vice President of Enforcement Julie Roe in an email on July 14, 10 days before the sanctions were announced. “I characterized our approach to PSU as a bluff when talking to Mark [Emmert] yesterday afternoon after the call. He basically agreed b/c if we make this an enforcement issue, we may win the immediate battle but lose the war when the COI [Committee on Infractions] has to rule.”

“I know we are banking on the fact the school is so embarrassed they will do anything, but I am not sure about that, and no confidence conference or other members will agree to that,” wrote NCAA Vice President of Academic and Membership Affairs Kevin Lennon on the same day. “This will force the jurisdictional issue that we really don’t have a great answer to that one…”

“I think Mark believes based on conversations with some presidents that PSU did gain an advantage although Berst, Wally and I disagree with that point,” Roe wrote. “The point some have made is that had PSU dealt with this in 2001, they might have suffered a recruiting disadvantage due to the bad publicity at that point. Given that they have a decent recruiting class now, not sure this holds up.”

“Delicate issue, but how did PSU gain a competitive advantage by what happened?” Lennon wrote. “Even if discovered, reported, and actions taken immediately by the administration, not sure how this would have changed anything from a competitive advantage perspective.”

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Curious. But who wrote that particular post?

   
Kevin Horne was the editor of Onward State from 2012-2014, and currently holds the position of Managing Editor Emeritus. He graduated from Penn State with degrees journalism and political science in 2014 and is currently seeking his J.D. at the Penn State Dickinson School of Law. A third generation Penn Stater from Williamsport, Pa., Kevin is a director of the Nittany Valley Society 501(c)(3) and is involved in student government.

Oh.

[Moranis]

But unless you are claiming the quoted emails are just made up, your post has no relevancy to the topic, so I'm not sure why you even made it.

[D.o.s.]

My guess is that you didn't actually dive into the PDF, which has a large number of emails from which to excerpt choice lines, and provides context for every one of those seemingly '[dang]ing' quotes.

And I get it -- It's much easier to read a Penn Stater's blog about how Penn State probably didn't deserve to have the hammer swung at it, particularly when you, by your own admission, are looking for confirmation of your own suspicions.

 

[Donoghus]

The whole reinstatement of Paterno's win thing is a bit laughable.  The guy's legacy is already tarnished and will continue to be.  Whether or not he has "most wins ever" title isn't really going to change that.  I guess its a moral victory for the Paterno family and those particular alums who hold the football program as the sacred cow but the damage is done. 

[Moranis]

My guess is that you didn't actually dive into the PDF, which has a large number of emails from which to excerpt choice lines, and provides context for every one of those seemingly '[dang]ing' quotes.

And I get it -- It's much easier to read a Penn Stater's blog about how Penn State probably didn't deserve to have the hammer swung at it, particularly when you, by your own admission, are looking for confirmation of your own suspicions.

 

of course they were pulled from emails to fit the purpose they want, but no amount of context is going to change that language. 

I mean here is an ESPN article on it, would you have felt better had I used that one.  http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11826657/internal-ncaa-emails-offer-glimpse-penn-state-sanctions-jerry-sandusky-child-sex-abuse-scandal

or maybe USA Today  http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2014/11/05/ncaa-emails-expose-questionable-governing-practices-for-penn-state-punishment/18531861/

how about deadspin ing-emails-show-the-ncaa-was-bluffing-on-penn-sta-1655021442]http://deadspin.com/[dang]ing-emails-show-the-ncaa-was-bluffing-on-penn-sta-1655021442

Or for the records, that PSU blog, they are the ones credited by USA Today, Deadspin, and numerous other sources as actually publishing the emails first. 

The Deadspin article actually has a number of the emails in their entirety (though some parts were redacted before they were produced in the litigation). 

Context doesn't change the facts at all, the NCAA didn't have the jurisdiction to punish Penn State for this, and used PSU's embarrassment into getting punishment that never would have stood up. 

[Rondo2287]

The whole reinstatement of Paterno's win thing is a bit laughable.  The guy's legacy is already tarnished and will continue to be.  Whether or not he has "most wins ever" title isn't really going to change that.  I guess its a moral victory for the Paterno family and those particular alums who hold the football program as the sacred cow but the damage is done.

would be like Pete Rose getting into the hall of fame or something haha

[Celtics4ever]

The whole reinstatement of Paterno's win thing is a bit laughable.  The guy's legacy is already tarnished and will continue to be.  Whether or not he has "most wins ever" title isn't really going to change that.  I guess its a moral victory for the Paterno family and those particular alums who hold the football program as the sacred cow but the damage is done.

TP, I agree.  Joe Pa is forever tarnished, those who think about him will always think about the scandals.   Someone in the future will google him, as I did today and about 1/3 of the weblinks are about the scandal.   I bet there will be even more in the future.  Those kinds of records rarely stand more than 40 -50 years though and some young genius coach will take him off number one and he will be an afterthought as people who cared about him die off.

[Moranis]

The whole reinstatement of Paterno's win thing is a bit laughable.  The guy's legacy is already tarnished and will continue to be.  Whether or not he has "most wins ever" title isn't really going to change that.  I guess its a moral victory for the Paterno family and those particular alums who hold the football program as the sacred cow but the damage is done.

TP, I agree.  Joe Pa is forever tarnished, those who think about him will always think about the scandals.   Someone in the future will google him, as I did today and about 1/3 of the weblinks are about the scandal.   I bet there will be even more in the future.  Those kinds of records rarely stand more than 40 -50 years though and some young genius coach will take him off number one and he will be an afterthought as people who cared about him die off.

I'm not actually sure his record will be broken.  Not the way the game is today.  A lot of the hot coaches end up trying the NFL (Spurrier, Saban, Chip Kelly, etc.) or they end up exhausted and retire earlier than the guys in the past (though some like Meyer come back).  Now there are more games now, but I still don't think anyone gets there.  Beamer has the most wins of the active coaches at 273, but 42 of those are from Murray State.  Paterno has 409.  Even counting the 42 Murray State wins, Beamer needs just about 14 more years of 10 wins a year to pass him up, I don't know if he gets there given he is already 68 (and you really can't count the Murray State wins since if you count all levels John Gagliardi is the all time leader and not Paterno).  The only other active DIA coaches with 200 wins are Steve Spurrier, Brian Kelly (though 118 of Kelly's wins were not DIA so don't count), and Dennis Franchione (like Kelly most of his aren't DIA wins).  Bill Snyder and his 187 DIA wins and Gary Pinkel and his 186 DIA wins are the next closest, but I think age keeps them from getting anywhere near 409.  Urban Meyer probably has the best shot.  He is 50 years old, at a school where 10 wins should be his minimum for the foreseeable future, and has 142 wins.  Then again he has already missed time for health reasons and would need 26.7 more years of 10 wins to get there.  Bob Stoops at 54 and 168 wins also has a shot.

[Eja117]

I have no respect for Joe Paterno.  This is a guy who, during a press conference, joked that he had to, "go home and beat his wife," which, incredibly, was met with much laughter from the press corps.  You don't joke about stuff like that.  Ever.  So, yeah - **** that guy.

maybe the reason it was so funny to the press was that they knew him and his wife and knew they had the best possible relationship and that she largely wore the pants. You think the multimillion dollar gifts to the school (largest in history from an employee to his employer) were his idea?

[Eja117]

Since the media is a court room now and all facts come from them, and since blogs and the internet are now media I guess it would make sense to also listen to the defense per se, and decide if you trust Freeh more than the Paternos.

http://www.framingpaterno.com/list-most-under-known-facts-sandusky-scandal

Also. There are some things I don't get here. McQueery sees this and goes to....his father? Really? That's what you do? Then his father says ....go to an 86 year old man who is no longer this other man's employer and is not law enforcement or any kind of abuse specialist. Really? Is that what you would tell your kid?

Sooooo....naturally....JoePa immediately goes to ......the Athletic Director and the head of campus police.  They say...."Joe. Who else knows about this highly illegal act?" He says "Ummm....me, Mike McQueery, Mike's Dad, Jerry of course, now you two, and of course there's the kid".

So naturally the response is now...."Ok. Let's cover this up but without involving Mike's dad or the kid or Jerry. Because that makes total sense. This is probably the only time Jerry ever did something like this".

So that's I guess what Freeh wants us to believe and that's why PSU was fined $60mill and banned from bowls and recruiting, and had to forfeit wins.

[Eja117]

I think this video makes some fair points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJqRXKBrFRU

[Neurotic Guy]

I have no respect for Joe Paterno.  This is a guy who, during a press conference, joked that he had to, "go home and beat his wife," which, incredibly, was met with much laughter from the press corps.  You don't joke about stuff like that.  Ever.  So, yeah - **** that guy.

maybe the reason it was so funny to the press was that they knew him and his wife and knew they had the best possible relationship and that she largely wore the pants. You think the multimillion dollar gifts to the school (largest in history from an employee to his employer) were his idea?

How would you possibly know that they had the best possible relationship, that she wore the pants (i.e., she was in charge of the household), and that his gifts to the school were her idea?   

I get so curious about how people come to feel that they really know celebrities.  Even if you've heard them speak about their relatonship, or, saw them interact on Regis and Kathy Lee, you can't really think that you know how their relationship is behind closed doors, can you?

[Eja117]

I have no respect for Joe Paterno.  This is a guy who, during a press conference, joked that he had to, "go home and beat his wife," which, incredibly, was met with much laughter from the press corps.  You don't joke about stuff like that.  Ever.  So, yeah - **** that guy.

maybe the reason it was so funny to the press was that they knew him and his wife and knew they had the best possible relationship and that she largely wore the pants. You think the multimillion dollar gifts to the school (largest in history from an employee to his employer) were his idea?

How would you possibly know that they had the best possible relationship, that she wore the pants (i.e., she was in charge of the household), and that his gifts to the school were her idea?   

I get so curious about how people come to feel that they really know celebrities.  Even if you've heard them speak about their relatonship, or, saw them interact on Regis and Kathy Lee, you can't really think that you know how their relationship is behind closed doors, can you?

They were a very transparent couple in a small town. Many many people knew them in many capacities. They weren't a Hollywood couple or a Kennedy hiding in their Hills villa or compound.

[Beat LA]

I have no respect for Joe Paterno.  This is a guy who, during a press conference, joked that he had to, "go home and beat his wife," which, incredibly, was met with much laughter from the press corps.  You don't joke about stuff like that.  Ever.  So, yeah - **** that guy.

maybe the reason it was so funny to the press was that they knew him and his wife and knew they had the best possible relationship and that she largely wore the pants. You think the multimillion dollar gifts to the school (largest in history from an employee to his employer) were his idea?

How would you possibly know that they had the best possible relationship, that she wore the pants (i.e., she was in charge of the household), and that his gifts to the school were her idea?   

I get so curious about how people come to feel that they really know celebrities.  Even if you've heard them speak about their relatonship, or, saw them interact on Regis and Kathy Lee, you can't really think that you know how their relationship is behind closed doors, can you?

They were a very transparent couple in a small town. Many many people knew them in many capacities. They weren't a Hollywood couple or a Kennedy hiding in their Hills villa or compound.

Listen, I don't know the first thing about Joe Paterno, and I think that football is a sport that needs to be banned, quite honestly, after watching that piece by frontline.  With that said, if you were in my shoes, and after hearing about the horrifying Jerry Sandusky scandal you see such a clip about this 'legend' 'joking' about going home to beat his wife, what would you think?  Even Bill Cosby wasn't that graphic when people were shouting at him at his latest performance.  I believe he said that, "you should be careful about drinking with me," or something, after that was voiced from the crowd.  I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't think that you can say things like that after such incidents are revealed.  Leave that to the comics (or, in Cosby's case, the other comics).  Just, please stop talking, lol.     

[Celtics4ever]

I'm not actually sure his record will be broken.

Great Analysis, I think I am wrong and your right.  TP