Job offer question

[JSD]

Soo I went in to the job today.  They completely made it clear to me that I was a risk in hiring me which started the day out on a bad note.  Then they didnt give me any written offer which is what i was told I would have.  Then they went from last night, on range of pay from X-Y that, "They couldnt offer me why but could offer me something i would be comfortable with."  to, "We are offering you X"  Then still no info on benefits or anything like I was told. 

I went to lunch, talked to my parents and GF told them the deal, they both told me to tell them the job wasnt for me.  I went in told them it wasnt for me at which point the woman that hired me flipped out, saying, "You are going to look back on this and regret it, and they were going to have this conversation with me at the end of the day anyways because i didnt seem enthusiastic enough about it."(Which I doubt) Then said,  "Do you have any idea how many college resumes we got for this job!?!?"  then I got up to leave and she said, "You are coming across with alot of attitude and I should leave right now"  After i had already gotten up to leave mind you, she kicked me out. 

Jeeezz.  I thought CB was full of drama. 

That sucks. Could you have handled the situation a little better though? Maybe you could have explained your expectations and disappointments?

[Rondo2287]

Oh no, I explained myself, thats when she got really p---ed though.  I told her why i didnt want the job,  very politely of course, I was apologizing the whole time, said i was sorry for wasting her time and said i had never done this before and I was nervous because i never turned a job down. And she just lost it, basically because I said that the job wasnt the part i had the problem with, it was really more the environment.  I mean I really couldnt have been any more professional, and I think she was the complete polar opposite. 

[Rondo2287]

Meanwhile she also told me that she felt sorry for me if I stayed with my current job. 

[JSD]

Jeez, well it sounds like you made the right decision.

[Rondo2287]

Ya thats what I thought to,  I had a bad feeling about it in the pit of my stomach the whole time i was there, and her being a huge jerk at the end really set it in stone.  still I feel pretty bad, I never had to turn anything like that down before. 

[huzy]

About 1/10th of the posts I think I've made here have been related to career advice that I've offered people, so hopefully I can present a helpful perspective. In my role as a Corporate Recruiter, I deal with hundreds of situations similar to this on a monthly basis.

I can't help but comment on your story and all I can say is that this company you're referring to sounds shockingly unprofessional and bordering on being a liability to themselves legally.

In the employment practice you have to be so careful how job offers, the rescinding of offers, and general communication to candidates and new hires is handled. The woman you're referring to is putting her company in serious jeopardy by speaking to a new hire in such an unprofessional manner. If she is a Human Resources professional, it dissapoints me that a peer reflects our profession so poorly.

In regards to salary negotioations, hopefully I can provide a little insight from the other side of the table. It seems to be a common misconception that companies play hard ball in negotiations out of principle and it's a matter of perception or interpretation. In many cases, organizations have a detailed salary structure with specific grade limitations. Also, don't underestimate the importance of equity. While one may feel that they are worth a certain amount of money, that's not the driving force. Any respectable organization is mindful of it's current staff when establishing an offer. Never take an offer that is less than you expected as an insult. The offer itself is a compliment and reflection of the companies opinion of you. More likely than not, their salary structure has caused a certain limitation to what they can offer the external market.

Ultimately, never take these new hire negotiations personally. If you communicate your requests in a open and up-fron manner with respect, 99% of people will pay you the same respect in return.   

 

[oldmanspeaks]

For what it is worth: this is a good example of something going on behind the scenes which you know nothing about. It happens all the time. The HR person needed a warm body who was enthusiastic for minimum money. When you bucked, you were dogmeat. What is clear is that you don't know who is really calling the shots (when the deal changes from the previous day, there are other players involved.). The temper tantrum is designed so that the manager can somehow blame you when reporting the loss of an applicant.

A future tip. Always have a dealbreaker in mind when you no longer want a job. It gives a convenient excuse to leave without leaving you in a bad light.

Also when negotiating in the future, try to hint and find out what is negotiable. Once I saw I was limited on salary as I was already over their budget. However they really wanted me and so I played dumb and acted like I was worried about relocation expenses being large and unknown. Because it was from the corporate budget and not the local budget, I got a HUGE relocation package. Sometimes you can negotiate hours so you can teach a course. Sometimes you can negotiate vacation. Sometimes you can negotiate for training seminars, etc. etc. A secondary thing you pick up doing this is whether the hiring manager or HR person has any authority at all.

[Rondo2287]

Ya this was a pretty small tech company so it wasnt an HR person i was talking to it was the CFO.  personally it just really sucked because I know the job wasnt for me, and I wouldent be happy doing it especially for what she was offering me.   Especially after being asked to come in without any written guidelines as to what i would be paid, and having them start training me without any guidelines besides we are giving you X and no discussion of benefits or anything like that.

 It was really a nightmare experience and it kinda shook my self confidence a little bit.  My experience with companies so far is that after they hire you, they want to build you up, not tell you that hiring you is a risk, and we are going to pay you the minimum salary because of it.  Luckily the temp job I have been working for when i called my boss there today to tell him i would be there on monday(we have been really open about my job search and he has been helping me with it, great guy) said that he was sorry i had the experience but not dissapointed because he is greatful to have me back.  Now let me say that my temp job pays better than this job would have but it has no benefits, however i can safely say i can pay my own insurance out of pocket and still be making more than at the place that was really rude. 

Thanks for listening guys.  Really rough day, I think she was mad at herself because now she has to explain why she lost an employee, and put me down to make herself feel better. 

[Rondo2287]

And ya, I did have a point at which it was a deal breaker, and that was a salaray point between the scale of x-y.  Basically they wanted me to take over 7,000 in a pay cut.  I wasnt willing to do that,  I was willing to go around 3,500 for a permanent position and benefits, but since im temping for the government, my job security is through the roof so i dont have to worry about that.  But ya, needless to say, I am pretty upset right now. 

[JSD]

Couple things:

1. Any chance of going temp to perm at your current position?
2. Why didn't you ask about the benefits package before declining the offer?

[Rondo2287]

Yes there is a chance that my temp job becomes perm, my boss is currently trying to get me in, but there is alot of red tape. 

And I asked twice today, and she just kept pushing it off telling me she would get it to me later.  But at that point I knew it wasnt for me, and benefits werent really going to change my mind either way. 

[Hoops]

Without having read much of anything in this thread, two words:

Take it.

[Rondo2287]

Haha i already declined it hoops!

[hardlyyardley]

As an elder statesman (retired business owner)....starting salary is secondary to the professionalism of the company....this company's approach was chickensh--

I assume you are a recent college grad.....if so....your first job should be a place to learn and build a resume....now that you've completed your formal education, it's time to learn

good luck....you're already on the right track...the celtics won the year i graduated

[Rondo2287]

Ya thanks man, like I kinda feel bad now because I was really hoping that this would be a permanent place for me.  But luckily im at a point right now still living with the Rents, where I dont have that many expenses and I do have a secure temp job.  I just really think the way the other company acted was unprofessional and beyond that, getting yelled at like that and having her basically call me out in an attempt to question my own self worth is really beyond unprofessional, I think she was acting as a bad person. 

I consider myself lucky that I took the time to go in there today and check things out before quitting my other job where everybody is supportive and friendly.  I mean its kinda tough hearing somebody say all that stuff to you, but in the end i think i made the right call because i dont think i could have been happy there.