Job offer question

[jdpapa3]

Are you taking the job I'm leaving? They just offered someone a job today and the HR person is going on vacation for the next 2 weeks...weird.

[Rondo2287]

Thanks for all the help so far guys!

[oldmanspeaks]

A positions entry pay doesn't matter matters. It is the potential for advancement that matters. As an old man, I can tell you of positions I took with high salary but were totally dead end (I didn't recognize it because the hiring VP basically misled me). Other times I got huge raises because I moved within the organization. I have worked for many companies and almost never ended up in the job I was hired to do. Someone noticed my skill level and I was moved to other projects quickly. Visibility of your work is a giant factor for advancement. Once when I was leaving a company the VP offered me the world to stay including a retroactive raise.(he needed me badly to keep a major customer happy). I left anyhow because after that particular project, I would no longer be king of the hill.
So if you are competent and you work is going to be seen by higher level people, take the job no matter what the pay. If you are pigeon holed, money counts because that will be your only reward (and you won't be happy for long no matter how much you make).

[Redz]

A positions entry pay doesn't matter matters. It is the potential for advancement that matters. As an old man, I can tell you of positions I took with high salary but were totally dead end (I didn't recognize it because the hiring VP basically misled me). Other times I got huge raises because I moved within the organization. I have worked for many companies and almost never ended up in the job I was hired to do. Someone noticed my skill level and I was moved to other projects quickly. Visibility of your work is a giant factor for advancement. Once when I was leaving a company the VP offered me the world to stay including a retroactive raise.(he needed me badly to keep a major customer happy). I left anyhow because after that particular project, I would no longer be king of the hill.
So if you are competent and you work is going to be seen by higher level people, take the job no matter what the pay. If you are pigeon holed, money counts because that will be your only reward (and you won't be happy for long no matter how much you make).

I love the EF Hutton effect oldmanspeaks has.

TP for Sound advice.

[Rondo2287]

Ya she did say that my job was a highly visable role among the companys clients so that probably means that if they like me, I should be all set similar to your experience. 

[JSD]

A positions entry pay doesn't matter matters. It is the potential for advancement that matters. As an old man, I can tell you of positions I took with high salary but were totally dead end (I didn't recognize it because the hiring VP basically misled me). Other times I got huge raises because I moved within the organization. I have worked for many companies and almost never ended up in the job I was hired to do. Someone noticed my skill level and I was moved to other projects quickly. Visibility of your work is a giant factor for advancement. Once when I was leaving a company the VP offered me the world to stay including a retroactive raise.(he needed me badly to keep a major customer happy). I left anyhow because after that particular project, I would no longer be king of the hill.
So if you are competent and you work is going to be seen by higher level people, take the job no matter what the pay. If you are pigeon holed, money counts because that will be your only reward (and you won't be happy for long no matter how much you make).

God I love when old.man.speaks. The guy spits nothing but knowledge. TP.

[timepiece33]

Insurance generally costs a company about 20 to 30% of an employee's salary, so you might want to contemplate that in your offer.

Letting the employer know that xx% will get you to say yes right now is not a bad way to position a discussion.  Most employers give front line HR people around 5% to 7% wiggle room before having to justify an increase and involving other people. 

Like it or not, unless you have other viable options ... you might want to take the temp job.  It is always easier to search for a job when employed. 

[Chris]

Ya, I dunno, i figure whoever gives me the offer sheet is the right person to talk to.  I figure they wont just kick me out if I ask for more, I mean what is the worst that can happen?(i doubt they would take the offer off the table because they need to fill the position.

Well, if they are going to be your supervisor, it can make for an uncomfortable situation.  That is why HR ussually does it.

[Nut from Nh]

I think the company sounds pretty good, and she made it seem like there was room for advancement, although I feel like they all say that.  I run out of my parents insurance at the end of september when my temp job expires so that is kinda like a double whammy deadline.  So we will see, I guess I was wondering like if she comes at me with a certain figure do you think its legit to say, "Im taking a pay cut off my current job, I need at least___" and see what they say.

Oh yeah, it is absolutely legit to do that.  If they can't offer you more than they do, they will tell you, but I would always recommend trying to negotiate.  Although I would recommend doing the negotiating with HR rather than the actual hiring manager if you can. 

I disagree with much of what people have given for advice in here, and given the economy and the fact that we are talking salary, the stakes are very high.  I have negotiated every single begining salary I have gotten.  And that included a 10% increase to an offer when I seperated from the military.  I wasn't qualified, and I had been interviewing hard for 3 months with nothing I deemed acceptable.  It takes balls, but only a fool would take an initial offer.  It is ALL IN THE WAY YOU ASK.  

Additionally, I think I have strong negotiation skills.  I do it all day, every day in the defense industry.  Multimillion dollar contract negotiations, it's **** awesome!

Now for my specific advise...  This is a stupid thing to say "Im taking a pay cut off my current job, I need at least___" and see what they say.

Right there you made it an adversarial negotiation, and you set an ultimatum, and I don't think that was your intent anyway!  "I need at least this", says to the employer, "do this or else".  There is a time and a place for this type of negotiation, but in your situation it gives you no advantage what so ever.  

90% of the time a salary negotiation for a new job should go EXACTLY like this...

Mr. Johnson I have taken some time to consider your offer and spoken at lenght to my wife, friends, family etc.  As I said at our last meeting I'm very excited about the opportunity to join the team at ABC Company and as time has passed and I have continued to reflect on our last meeting my excitement has only grown as I have considered how my strengths align with the details of the position that you have shared with me.  ***if they gave you a particular challenge they think you can help attack, or a void they want you to fill you should mention that specifically and how amped you are to go at that project with all you have***

(so far you have reminded them that you are thoughtful, excited, a team player, and you have reminded them of your strengths, and maybe a specific problem you are going to tackle, you are reminding them of the VALUE you will bring)

***back to the moment of truth, don't worry it is easy***

As I had mentioned before I am currently employed.  Based upon my current compensation and the total compensation package that ABC Company has offered I was wondering if there is any way you can get me to $XYZ starting salary, if you can do that for me I can sign your non disclosure agreement, (or contract) right now.  

*** What you did here was ASK, not demand.  But most of all you did not say, I NEED this.  The entire wording here is key, you want to rehearse the entire thing.  You MUST remind them that if they can get you there you WILL SIGN IMMEDIATLEY.  When a company decides your the one, you have way more leverage than you think.  If you negotiate like this you will not put them off, you may even encourage them to "help you out" to get you where you would like to be.  They likely have a budget, and they will have it or they won't. But you gave them the end game, you promised to sign if they got you there, you communicated to them that there is no bs after this step.  

But not to worry.  The important thing is you did nothing wrong, they will come back to you.   They will likely say well we have a budget and blah blah, but they will probably say they will look into and call you back.  You say "Great Mr. So and So, I really appreciate it and I really look forward to hearing back from you, I'm excited to join the team".

When they counter, you weight the offer. They may give you your asking price, or counter with the same offer, or something in between.  No matter what you thank them for looking into it and do what you think is best.  If they didn't give you everything you wanted but you take the job, your demeanor is all happy and thanks mr. so and so, i'm really happy to come aboard.

Good luck buddy!

[BballTim]

  I don't know a lot about temping per se but I do know about consulting which is probably similar. Consultants get significantly more than regular employees as they have no benefits. None of them would get hired at anything approaching their consulting pay. If you're going to a larger company they have a pretty set range based on your experience level.

[hwangjini_1]

one other thing to consider is that you have some bargaining power since they have chosen you as superior to the other candidates. so they must want you.

next, you mention money ("y") as central to your bargaining. maybe thing of other things that you might be able to get if they do not budge on salary.

for example, ask for flex hours. or extra vacation time. or redefine your job duties. or educational benefits. or training so you can eventually move up in the job.

money is not the only thing that makes a job worth having. what else would you like that would make you happy to go to work in the morning?

[nickagneta]

Having been on both sides of the negotiating table just a couple of things.

-Be honest with the person you end up negotiating your salary with. Employers that are worth a [dang] will do everything they can to make your initial salary with the company, even in an entry level position, one you can be happy with. It costs companies lots of money to advertise a position, go through the interview and hiring process, hire someone, train them, live with their mistakes while they come up to speed and eventually get the employee to the point where they are self sufficient and adding positively to the company on a day in day out basis. A lot of money!!!! They are not going to squabble over a couple to ten thousand dollars over a years time when it will cost them 3-4 times that amount to go through the hiring process once again because you are taking the job at an unacceptable salary and are looking to bail from this job for the next place that is willing to offer $20-$40 more per day.

- If this job is in sales or if you are going to be directly interacting with clients, you had better go in and negotiate your salary. The hiring agent wouldn't be doing a very good job if the person they were hiring didn't try to negotiate a higher salary, especially given the fact that part of their job is negotiations.

- Take into account the big picture. What bills you have, how many people having been calling you versus the amount of resumes you have sent out, how much money you currently have saved, you health insurance situation, your living conditions, your long term career goals, etc. Take a good long look to see if this position is worth making a hard stand over for just a few bucks a week(few being relative). Make sure you are not shooting yourself in the foot here.

- Be flexible and be willing to think outside the box. Are there future perks involved like a company vehicle, future commissions or bonus earnings, matching 401K, stock options, upward mobility. Ask who your direct superiors are and how long each has been at that position. Ask why the position was open to begin with. Ask what the tenure of the average employee is. These might be some eye opening answers that will tell you right off the bat whether or not this is a company that it will even matter whether you get the lower end x or the higher end y.

- Listen to everything oldmanspeaks said. He is wise beyond even his years.

[Chris]

I think the company sounds pretty good, and she made it seem like there was room for advancement, although I feel like they all say that.  I run out of my parents insurance at the end of september when my temp job expires so that is kinda like a double whammy deadline.  So we will see, I guess I was wondering like if she comes at me with a certain figure do you think its legit to say, "Im taking a pay cut off my current job, I need at least___" and see what they say.

Oh yeah, it is absolutely legit to do that.  If they can't offer you more than they do, they will tell you, but I would always recommend trying to negotiate.  Although I would recommend doing the negotiating with HR rather than the actual hiring manager if you can. 

I disagree with much of what people have given for advice in here, and given the economy and the fact that we are talking salary, the stakes are very high.  I have negotiated every single begining salary I have gotten.  And that included a 10% increase to an offer when I seperated from the military.  I wasn't qualified, and I had been interviewing hard for 3 months with nothing I deemed acceptable.  It takes balls, but only a fool would take an initial offer.  It is ALL IN THE WAY YOU ASK.  

Additionally, I think I have strong negotiation skills.  I do it all day, every day in the defense industry.  Multimillion dollar contract negotiations, it's **** awesome!

Now for my specific advise...  This is a stupid thing to say "Im taking a pay cut off my current job, I need at least___" and see what they say.

Right there you made it an adversarial negotiation, and you set an ultimatum, and I don't think that was your intent anyway!  "I need at least this", says to the employer, "do this or else".  There is a time and a place for this type of negotiation, but in your situation it gives you no advantage what so ever.  

90% of the time a salary negotiation for a new job should go EXACTLY like this...

Mr. Johnson I have taken some time to consider your offer and spoken at lenght to my wife, friends, family etc.  As I said at our last meeting I'm very excited about the opportunity to join the team at ABC Company and as time has passed and I have continued to reflect on our last meeting my excitement has only grown as I have considered how my strengths align with the details of the position that you have shared with me.  ***if they gave you a particular challenge they think you can help attack, or a void they want you to fill you should mention that specifically and how amped you are to go at that project with all you have***

(so far you have reminded them that you are thoughtful, excited, a team player, and you have reminded them of your strengths, and maybe a specific problem you are going to tackle, you are reminding them of the VALUE you will bring)

***back to the moment of truth, don't worry it is easy***

As I had mentioned before I am currently employed.  Based upon my current compensation and the total compensation package that ABC Company has offered I was wondering if there is any way you can get me to $XYZ starting salary, if you can do that for me I can sign your non disclosure agreement, (or contract) right now.  

*** What you did here was ASK, not demand.  But most of all you did not say, I NEED this.  The entire wording here is key, you want to rehearse the entire thing.  You MUST remind them that if they can get you there you WILL SIGN IMMEDIATLEY.  When a company decides your the one, you have way more leverage than you think.  If you negotiate like this you will not put them off, you may even encourage them to "help you out" to get you where you would like to be.  They likely have a budget, and they will have it or they won't. But you gave them the end game, you promised to sign if they got you there, you communicated to them that there is no bs after this step.  

But not to worry.  The important thing is you did nothing wrong, they will come back to you.   They will likely say well we have a budget and blah blah, but they will probably say they will look into and call you back.  You say "Great Mr. So and So, I really appreciate it and I really look forward to hearing back from you, I'm excited to join the team".

When they counter, you weight the offer. They may give you your asking price, or counter with the same offer, or something in between.  No matter what you thank them for looking into it and do what you think is best.  If they didn't give you everything you wanted but you take the job, your demeanor is all happy and thanks mr. so and so, i'm really happy to come aboard.

Good luck buddy!

Well said.  I agree with all of this.  I was only saying that he absolutely can and should negotiate.  You are right that it needs to be done the right way, or else they will just walk away.

[cdif911]

Are you taking the job I'm leaving? They just offered someone a job today and the HR person is going on vacation for the next 2 weeks...weird.

please say yes, please say yes

it'd be so karmatic

[Rondo2287]

Soo I went in to the job today.  They completely made it clear to me that I was a risk in hiring me which started the day out on a bad note.  Then they didnt give me any written offer which is what i was told I would have.  Then they went from last night, on range of pay from X-Y that, "They couldnt offer me Y but could offer me something i would be comfortable with."  to, "We are offering you X"  Then still no info on benefits or anything like I was told. 

I went to lunch, talked to my parents and GF told them the deal, they both told me to tell them the job wasnt for me.  I went in told them it wasnt for me at which point the woman that hired me flipped out, saying, "You are going to look back on this and regret it, and they were going to have this conversation with me at the end of the day anyways because i didnt seem enthusiastic enough about it."(Which I doubt) Then said,  "Do you have any idea how many college resumes we got for this job!?!?"  then I got up to leave and she said, "You are coming across with alot of attitude and I should leave right now"  After i had already gotten up to leave mind you, she kicked me out. 

Jeeezz.  I thought CB was full of drama.