How good has Brad Stevens been for the Celtics franchise ?

[cman88]

Since when is Denver some championship juggernaut ? For years, even with Jokic, they have been viewed as talented but maybe a little soft and not quite up to the demands of winning a title (remind you of anyone ?). Now, they are unbeatable ? Give me a break. I'm sure they matured some, but it is time for this Celtic group to win some titles, as in more than one. Tatum is a little soft in terms of competitive drive and Brown is a little dumb on the court. However, acquiring a veteran with some fire in his belly and putting this team under the direction of a strong coach would solve some of those issues.

As for the roster, though it would be a gamble, shipping one of the J's for a huge return including some bite in the post and the aforementioned new coach, might be the key to unlock the title door. I still think we get too much "your turn, my turn" redundancy in our offense that leads to the iso stagnation we see too often. Both J's still hold the ball way too long and slow momentum.

Regarding the comment about fans expecting 11 titles in 13 years - of course we don't. But Red built three separate multiple-title teams from scratch and expecting 2-3 titles in a decade is hardly unrealistic. Winning one banner in 38 years is embarrassing to this great franchise.

because Denver won last year and gave celtics trouble this year is why. but I do agree its overblown. prior to last year they were kind of in the same boat as the celtics narrative wise. we'll see, maybe denver rolls through the west again like last year. or maybe another team beats them, they aren't exactly much better than a bevy of teams in the west.

those western playoffs will be a blood bath

my only fear is how the celtics react in a close game.

[JSD]

Brad marked a clear philosophy change, one that was needed for this team. And I’m saying that as perhaps the biggest Danny Ainge supporter on this board. But we have to be honest with ourselves; how Ainge handled the roster from 2019 onwards was not great. Now, not all of it was his fault. We tasked him with transforming the Celtics into a first-class organization attractive to free agents, and he achieved that. Gordon Hayward's signing was the franchise's biggest if you consider the context - an All-Star player about to hit his prime, etc. His significant injury changed the course of history for this team.

Ainge also overvalued draft picks towards the end. Stevens knew what his group needed, and it wasn’t first-round draft picks who were preparing for the limelight; it was good, solid veteran players to round out the roster and mesh personality-wise. Stevens took this team to the next level and has yet to actually draft a first-round pick himself.

While I would give Stevens a solid A-, there are few GMs I would want more than Ainge in a rebuilding situation.

I think this is true, but I also think it discounts just how much Stevens was able to 'shorten' the rebuild era in the wake of the Big 3. Obviously, Ainge was in charge of the roster, but we only had two properly bad seasons under HC Brad Stevens: '13-'14 and '20-'21.

For a team that had blown up its core and was stockpiling for the future, this is a fairly unprecedented run:

13-14: missed the playoffs
14-15: first-round exit
15-16: first-round exit
16-17: ECF appearance
17-18: ECF appearance
18-19: second-round exit
19-20: ECF appearance
20-21: first-round exit

Compare that to the Lakers over the same period when the Nash/Howard/Kobe roster imploded with injuries. Yes, they did snag a title from the bubble season (the largest asterisk season any of us are likely to see in our lifetimes), but otherwise, they've missed the playoffs every year but 20-21, where they were also a first-round exit. People talk about the Los Angeles advantage but we have absolutely been a much better team over the last decade.

Good post, I largely agree. And it’s not like the Lakers earned that title through good roster management, they won because the best player in the world at the time simply wanted to play there. It was infuriating to see the Lakers make bad roster moves one after another, only to be bailed out by players who just wanted to be in LA. That being said, the Lakers still have a title in the last 10 years, technically, so at the end of the day, we really can’t say we’ve had a better decade than them, unfortunately. Between these two teams all that matters are championships.

As many have said here, I think Brad Stevens did an excellent job with a rebuilding roster and made the most of the talent he had. I also think his experience on the bench helped him be a really good GM for this team because he knew exactly what they needed. He had a really solid run as a coach, and I agree, it was unprecedented for a coach to succeed with a rebuilding roster like that, but a lot of credit also has to go to Ainge who had some savvy moves to help expedite things.

[JSD]

Ainge wakes up in his bed on July 1, 2018. He is back in time, knowing how everything plays out for the next five years or so.

Moving Irving immediately would have been a no-brainer, but is there any world where he trades Hayward? The roster management that Brad was tasked with heading into the 2018-2019 season was impossible. Hayward was getting valuable minutes and was just not the same player, but the Celtics paid him so much, and the expectations—it was just impossible.

[trickybilly]

Ime had to go. You cannot sexually harass anyone especially your subordinates.  And that decision did not come from Brad, it was the owner.  Brad had nothing to do with it.

Really great article here explaining the total clustertruck that was Brad's handling of Ime.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2022/09/23/ime-udoka-boston-celtics-left-female-employees-defenseless/8093625001/

[Moranis]

Ime had to go. You cannot sexually harass anyone especially your subordinates.  And that decision did not come from Brad, it was the owner.  Brad had nothing to do with it.

Really great article here explaining the total clustertruck that was Brad's handling of Ime.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2022/09/23/ime-udoka-boston-celtics-left-female-employees-defenseless/8093625001/

As confirmed by your article, it was Wyc and the ownership group.  It was not Brad. He didn't make any of those decisions.

[BitterJim]

Ainge wakes up in his bed on July 1, 2018. He is back in time, knowing how everything plays out for the next five years or so.

Moving Irving immediately would have been a no-brainer, but is there any world where he trades Hayward? The roster management that Brad was tasked with heading into the 2018-2019 season was impossible. Hayward was getting valuable minutes and was just not the same player, but the Celtics paid him so much, and the expectations—it was just impossible.

I would kind of expect Ainge to bet on Jae staying in Boston meaning that Hayward doesn't break his leg. I would hope that he would make a trade for a different PG given what we now know about IT's hip, but I'm not sure what other difference makers were available at the time.

Maybe he hands the keys to Smart and plans on trading for Jrue or Holiday the next summer?

[Celtics2021]

Ainge wakes up in his bed on July 1, 2018. He is back in time, knowing how everything plays out for the next five years or so.

Moving Irving immediately would have been a no-brainer, but is there any world where he trades Hayward? The roster management that Brad was tasked with heading into the 2018-2019 season was impossible. Hayward was getting valuable minutes and was just not the same player, but the Celtics paid him so much, and the expectations—it was just impossible.

I would kind of expect Ainge to bet on Jae staying in Boston meaning that Hayward doesn't break his leg. I would hope that he would make a trade for a different PG given what we now know about IT's hip, but I'm not sure what other difference makers were available at the time.

Maybe he hands the keys to Smart and plans on trading for Jrue or Holiday the next summer?

The hypothesis was after year one of Hayward-Kyrie, coming off the conference finals with the young Js, not the summer where we acquired Hayward and Kyrie.

[BitterJim]

Ainge wakes up in his bed on July 1, 2018. He is back in time, knowing how everything plays out for the next five years or so.

Moving Irving immediately would have been a no-brainer, but is there any world where he trades Hayward? The roster management that Brad was tasked with heading into the 2018-2019 season was impossible. Hayward was getting valuable minutes and was just not the same player, but the Celtics paid him so much, and the expectations—it was just impossible.

I would kind of expect Ainge to bet on Jae staying in Boston meaning that Hayward doesn't break his leg. I would hope that he would make a trade for a different PG given what we now know about IT's hip, but I'm not sure what other difference makers were available at the time.

Maybe he hands the keys to Smart and plans on trading for Jrue or Holiday the next summer?

The hypothesis was after year one of Hayward-Kyrie, coming off the conference finals with the young Js, not the summer where we acquired Hayward and Kyrie.

Oh, right. In that case, then, what could we have expected as a return for Hayward? I can't see Ainge trading away picks to dump him, so we'd probably end up keeping him. Coming off the ECF run I think you have to trade Kyrie and Morris, maybe sell high on Rozier too. Horford probably gets extended. I would expect Ainge to be on the phone constantly with Minnesota trying to get Butler, and probably succeeding. I don't know how the fit would be with Jaylen/Jayson/Jimmy/Al, but I 100% expect that would be Ainge's goal. Then save some ammo to try and get Jrue in the summer of 2019 to build the toughest defensive starting lineup we've seen in a long time. Jrue/Jaylen/Jayson/Jimmy/Al would be nasty and right up Ainge's alley.

[timpiker]

I loved GM Ainge but Stevens GM has been a Godsend. 

[Moranis]

They should have done the Kawhi Leonard trade that summer.  Just pulled the trigger and included Brown.  Boston wins the title that year and who knows maybe Kawhi and Kyrie stay and that is the start of a dynasty.

[ETNCeltics]

Hard to claim an overall negative concerning Brad. Since he got here, we're near the top of the league in wins and playoff wins. Just haven't won a title. Hopefully, that can be rectified over the next 2 months.

[green_bballers13]

They should have done the Kawhi Leonard trade that summer.  Just pulled the trigger and included Brown.  Boston wins the title that year and who knows maybe Kawhi and Kyrie stay and that is the start of a dynasty.

Have you watched the last couple of years of basketball? Why not trade for Zion, Ben Simmons, and Klay Thompson?

[tenn_smoothie]

They should have done the Kawhi Leonard trade that summer.  Just pulled the trigger and included Brown.  Boston wins the title that year and who knows maybe Kawhi and Kyrie stay and that is the start of a dynasty.

Have you watched the last couple of years of basketball? Why not trade for Zion, Ben Simmons, and Klay Thompson?

Added to the injuries is the fact that Kyrie was never going to stay content. It's just not in him - certainly not at that time.
Whether he has learned and decided to be a more harmonious contributor in Dallas remains to be seen.

[Moranis]

They should have done the Kawhi Leonard trade that summer.  Just pulled the trigger and included Brown.  Boston wins the title that year and who knows maybe Kawhi and Kyrie stay and that is the start of a dynasty.

Have you watched the last couple of years of basketball? Why not trade for Zion, Ben Simmons, and Klay Thompson?

I'm not sure what that post has to do with mine.  Kawhi was actually traded that summer and Boston was the rumored front runner, but didn't want to part with Brown. I would have done that trade at the time (as I said pretty consistently on here).  Given Toronto went on to win the championship that year and Boston hasn't won one yet, I think that was the right move to make and still do.  Even if Kawhi and Kyrie both left after that year, Boston almost assuredly would have had another banner hanging. 

The Spurs basically wanted Brown and draft picks, though Smart in a sign and trade could have also been included.  Assuming it was Brown and Smart (and a future pick), that would have left Boston to start that year with Kyrie, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford, Morris, Rozier, Hayward, Baynes, Theis, Semi, Wanamaker, and Rob (the latter 2 were rookies).  That team is pretty clearly and significantly better than the Toronto team that won the title.  And I'm not so sure they both would have left had Boston won the title especially because I don't think a lot of the in-fighting would have happened with a much clearer hierarchy with Kawhi at the top.

[green_bballers13]

Kawhi hasn't been healthy. Also, it's impossible to make predictions with Kyrie. He hasn't done much of anything from a team standpoint since leaving Lebron 8 years ago. Both are super talented. So are the three guys I mentioned. You just can't rely on any of them.