Author Topic: Honeymoon Over?  (Read 11148 times)

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Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2019, 06:10:31 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
he's stupidly valuable for us (fringe All-Star type of guy).

But All star to the rest of the league?

I think we will be fine folks.   We just had a back to back, Brown was off his game last night and Tatum did not play his best and no Smart.

I swear some folks here want us to fail.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 06:38:17 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2019, 07:35:46 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Some losses against likely playoff opponents is not such a bad thing in December. Gives Danny & Co. time address some weaknesses and address them for later in the season, when it really counts.
Man I would LOVE to believe that.  The reality is that none of us can think of a decent move that DA is likely to make.  Instead, I think DA will simply have to wait for something unexpected to pop up, such as an elite star wanting out, a la the Kyrie or AD situations.  He's got the assets to make a move but will have to depend upon Lady Luck to bail him out.

Short of that, this team looks like a 2nd round exit, but even getting that far will require getting to a 3rd or 4th seed.  Anything lower and we could be looking at a 1st round exit.

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2019, 07:48:52 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I hereby dedicate this classic to all of the chicken littles out there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oica5jG7FpU

 ;D

But SERIOUSLY I believe we'll be fine. The 76ers are obviously a team that CAN be beat but we WILL need our Full Arsenal to do it.....

Some takeaways for a potential series against them(IMO):

Embiid will NOT average 38 and 16 for a series. I doubt he'll even PLAY the entire series.

Mike Scott will NOT hit 5-7 from deep.

Ben Simmons will NOT be a deep threat. We WILL have to keep him off the boards and stop his penetration, though.

Tobias Harris WILL, however - be someone we'll have to keep an eye on...he thoroughly exposed us last night.

Matisse "Falcon" Thybulle WILL be a defensive pest against us...and he IS improving offensively.

76ers are NOT a deep team. We ARE - when healthy.

We may not even PLAY PHI in a series...we COULD have a scenario where PHI / MIL will beat each other up.

We MAY - down the road HAVE to make a serious trade. If "I" had my choice I'd want NBA's AquaMan on our roster:



Steven Adams is a tough, rugged, proven NBA Center that can bang with the best, is durable and can rebound and defend well. He has enough of an offensive game to keep opponents honest but does not need the ball in his hands to keep him happy.

Who would we give up for SA? Not my call thankfully - but tough choices may be ahead. I hope I'm wrong.

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2019, 08:07:01 AM »

Offline mrceltics2013

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We ready to flip Tatum for a decent big?

YESSSSS

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2019, 08:22:11 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Considering I've never viewed this year's team as anything more than 2nd fodder for the truly elite teams I'm not surprised they've fallen back to earth a bit after the hot start to the season. It's just that now our flaws are finally starting to show.

But people also need to realize there probably isn't any way for Ainge to address our flaws without creating other roster holes. It's a simple problem of not having large enough disposable contracts to move along with draft capital to make improvements. Ainge is going to have to either wait for solutions from within, or somehow acquire contracts than can be used as grist in potential future trades.

But beyond that, I'm not sure we really even haven't the top end talent to be legit contenders. Tatum is the one guy that could lift the team to that level but he is nowhere near ready yet for that kind of burden.

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2019, 08:29:14 AM »

Offline seancally

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Considering I've never viewed this year's team as anything more than 2nd fodder for the truly elite teams I'm not surprised they've fallen back to earth a bit after the hot start to the season. It's just that now our flaws are finally starting to show.

But people also need to realize there probably isn't any way for Ainge to address our flaws without creating other roster holes. It's a simple problem of not having large enough disposable contracts to move along with draft capital to make improvements. Ainge is going to have to either wait for solutions from within, or somehow acquire contracts than can be used as grist in potential future trades.

But beyond that, I'm not sure we really even haven't the top end talent to be legit contenders. Tatum is the one guy that could lift the team to that level but he is nowhere near ready yet for that kind of burden.

Right - this season's success will be made/broken on how Tatum and Brown develop throughout the year, how consistent they can be, and how much of a problem they can pose together. If they are a true nightly threat on both sides, we have a puncher's chance of getting out of the east. If not, good luck. And that's going to have to be OK because as you say the bigs are not available without compromising what would make this team uniquely good - 4 high-caliber perimeter players. Always a mismatch on the perimeter, somewhere. I would LOVE Steven Adams but I don't see how we get him.

Part of the problem is how the NBA limits trades. Simmons brought this up on a recent pod - if the NBA would allow trades to have only 50% matching salary that would open the floodgates. We had a summer where the cap spiked and now every midtier player is walking around with $25M above his head, and it makes normal trades really hard to pull off with how salary needs to align now.
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Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2019, 08:38:20 AM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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Smart plays this is a different game. The effort wasn't there on both ends for a couple guys last night.

These last 2 games show how valuable Smart is to our rotation.
ok fine

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2019, 09:09:23 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Quote
he's stupidly valuable for us (fringe All-Star type of guy).

But All star to the rest of the league?

I think we will be fine folks.   We just had a back to back, Brown was off his game last night and Tatum did not play his best and no Smart.

I swear some folks here want us to fail.
Emphasis on fringe, he has a weak argument to be an All-Star compared to the rest of the league imo.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2019, 09:25:06 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I'd say the only people really slitting wrists after 2 losses are those whose expectations became elevated after a better than expected start to the season. I think we're around about where we expected to be - around the 3rd or 4th best team in the conference. We're missing parts and our performance this season will make it clearing who we can afford to give up to get the part we need to push us back into top contention.

Right now I've managed my own expectations and am looking to see how far this currently constructed team goes and who of our top 4-5 ends up looking expendable.

Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2019, 09:47:43 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Some losses against likely playoff opponents is not such a bad thing in December. Gives Danny & Co. time address some weaknesses and address them for later in the season, when it really counts.
The bottom 8 players of the roster make a combined $15-16M. That’s a little less than $2M per player or basically the min. Except Semi no one else was playable against philly. I’m not sure how much more is there to analyze weaknesses as the fact that we lack rotation players has been obvious from the beginning of the season
That's typical.  The Sixers bottom 8 salaries are around 15M total. 

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2019, 09:49:23 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Smart plays this is a different game. The effort wasn't there on both ends for a couple guys last night.

These last 2 games show how valuable Smart is to our rotation.
If Horford plays, its a different game.  I think the Sixers would be happy to make that tradeoff. 

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2019, 10:47:53 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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Some losses against likely playoff opponents is not such a bad thing in December. Gives Danny & Co. time address some weaknesses and address them for later in the season, when it really counts.
The bottom 8 players of the roster make a combined $15-16M. That’s a little less than $2M per player or basically the min. Except Semi no one else was playable against philly. I’m not sure how much more is there to analyze weaknesses as the fact that we lack rotation players has been obvious from the beginning of the season
That's typical.  The Sixers bottom 8 salaries are around 15M total.
I guess i forgot to say that our bottom 8 players are worth what they are paid.

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2019, 10:52:35 AM »

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Our team is a tale of two cities, so to speak. 

Walker, Smart, Tatum, Hayward, Brown; terrific.

Theis, Kanter, Ojeleye, Williams, Williams, Edwards, Poirier, Wanamaker; not so much.

We don't have even a single decent starting level big on the team.  Pretending that Tatum is a big doesn't help.  Pretending that Theis is "starting-level" doesn't either.

Teams are going to figure out how to exploit this.  Also, if our big 5 doesn't hit on all cylinders, we are vulnerable.  Expect an up and down season with this roster.

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2019, 11:08:57 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Considering I've never viewed this year's team as anything more than 2nd fodder for the truly elite teams I'm not surprised they've fallen back to earth a bit after the hot start to the season. It's just that now our flaws are finally starting to show.

But people also need to realize there probably isn't any way for Ainge to address our flaws without creating other roster holes. It's a simple problem of not having large enough disposable contracts to move along with draft capital to make improvements. Ainge is going to have to either wait for solutions from within, or somehow acquire contracts than can be used as grist in potential future trades.

But beyond that, I'm not sure we really even haven't the top end talent to be legit contenders. Tatum is the one guy that could lift the team to that level but he is nowhere near ready yet for that kind of burden.

Right - this season's success will be made/broken on how Tatum and Brown develop throughout the year, how consistent they can be, and how much of a problem they can pose together. If they are a true nightly threat on both sides, we have a puncher's chance of getting out of the east. If not, good luck. And that's going to have to be OK because as you say the bigs are not available without compromising what would make this team uniquely good - 4 high-caliber perimeter players. Always a mismatch on the perimeter, somewhere. I would LOVE Steven Adams but I don't see how we get him.

Part of the problem is how the NBA limits trades. Simmons brought this up on a recent pod - if the NBA would allow trades to have only 50% matching salary that would open the floodgates. We had a summer where the cap spiked and now every midtier player is walking around with $25M above his head, and it makes normal trades really hard to pull off with how salary needs to align now.


I mean, personally I do think we should trade one of Smart/Brown/Tatum/Hayward for a big, but I'm not sure any are available that would be worth it.  But it is a problem, given that we basically cannot play our 5 best players at the same time except for in very specific matchups.  Not being able to play your 5 best players at the same time is a roster flaw and a misallocation of assets.

Re: Honeymoon Over?
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2019, 11:14:36 AM »

Offline jambr380

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Our team is a tale of two cities, so to speak. 

Walker, Smart, Tatum, Hayward, Brown; terrific.

Theis, Kanter, Ojeleye, Williams, Williams, Edwards, Poirier, Wanamaker; not so much.

We don't have even a single decent starting level big on the team.  Pretending that Tatum is a big doesn't help.  Pretending that Theis is "starting-level" doesn't either.

Teams are going to figure out how to exploit this.  Also, if our big 5 doesn't hit on all cylinders, we are vulnerable.  Expect an up and down season with this roster.

Probably not the time to make this argument. Kanter and Theis were a combined 17/24 with 36 points, 14 points, and 3 blocks. I understand that Embiid destroyed us (thanks Shaq, Charles, and Kenny for lighting a fire under him just before our game), but I am starting to think our bigs - don't forget Time Lord - are not necessarily the problem.

Rather, we have no scoring on our bench besides Kanter and Tatum shooting 40% while going way outside of of our offense is killing us. We really only went 3 deep into our bench last night and those guys were Kanter, Ojeleye, and Wanamaker. I understand that a healthy Smart and Time Lord will help, but that's pretty putrid. Carsen and Grant have been huge disappointments from what we expected in summer league and pre-season.