Best young hybrid forward: Jayson Tatum vs Ben Simmons vs Pascal Siakam

[Moranis]

To expand on my ranking earlier on, the most portable/scalable skills in basketball are finishing, shooting, defense and passing. These skills scale up the more talented your teammates are simply due to the fact that they aren't dependent on touching the ball to provide value to a team. The best young hybrid forwards in the league, eg. Simmons, Ingram, Tatum, Siakam aren't really good enough to be that high usage perimeter engine in the vein of Jordan/Kobe/Bron/Wade/Kawhi (I'm warming up on Kawhi a LOT this season, his passing is on another level compared to his 2019 championship run) assuming that what Siakam and Ingram are showing this season is merely a hot streak, so how we should rate them as of right now is their efficacy as a second/third option on offense (which can be incredibly valuable, there's only so much value in having a #1 guy on offense, eg. the 2008 Celtics' best player was Kevin Garnett and they still won a title with his #2/#3 qualities lifting his team offense enough to churn out a championship calibre season alongside elite defense, check stats like SRS to see how dominant that squad was).

I'd rank them like this right now:
1. Siakam
2. Ingram
3. Simmons
4. Tatum

Although Ingram's stats are nuts atm, I think he's been unreasonably hot to start the season. His numbers overstate his offense and defense - he still can't drive inside and finish through contact (his preferred move is to pull up for an inefficient midrange shot that's somehow automatic for him so far), and his defensive numbers are pumped up due to the free safety role he gets. I think Siakam's statistical jump is more indicative of his quality (although they're still likely to be inflated a bit) - his passing and shooting have improved, and his defense has slipped a bit (although he's still a good defender), but he still gives you that excellent two way complementary piece that can now be a viable centrepiece. I don't rate Simmons much, his shooting is still god awful and his passing is overrated (the majority of his assists come from post ups and transition plays), but he can still give you a very additive package based on his defensive versatility, finishing and passing (yes it's overrated, but it's by no means bad) that can scale on any team that doesn't have poor spacing. I think Tatum's as good as those guys when it comes to pure "goodness", but I think that his current skillset is between a rock and a hard place - his game is designed to be an offensive centrepiece, but he hasn't developed enough to be a viable high usage engine, and his complementary skills are pretty eh (good outside shooter and plus defender, but is a meh passer and finisher). If Tatum cleans up his passing and finishing as the season progresses I could see him jumping up to #1 in the list, but I don't think I can justify putting him above those forwards right now. Ultimately it's a super small sample size so we'll probably have to wait until the new year before we can start to form any real opinions when it comes to such young players.

Ingram's hot shooting start is from deep not from 2 point range as his 2PT% is basically identical to last year.  His 3PT% is way above the norm, that will obviously come back down at some point.  So I do think he can sustain a lot of what he was doing.  Ingram has always been a fairly efficient scorer and as his touches have gone up he actually hasn't lost much that efficiency.  He is finally getting touches like he is a #1 option and I expect him to continue to score like he is a #1 option. 

I've actually been most impressed by his improvement on the glass and in his passing game.  He has made pretty big strides in both of those areas.  He is also blocking shots at over double his career rate and has the lowest TOV% of his career.  It has been 5 games obviously, but I like what I've seen from Ingram.

Oh I meant his FG% in general-his 3 point shooting has jumped and I expect him to maintain a good percentage there, but a good amount of his twos when he has to create his own offense are pullup twos due to his lack of explosiveness and strength, and he's hitting a pretty obscene percentage of them rn on high volume (he had Bron feeding him last year for more high percentage looks, it's different from hitting a bunch of pullup midrange jumpshots). I don't see him as a #1 scorer until he can consistently drive to the basket and score there-almost every great perimeter engine can force the issue with their driving. Imo Ingram is a perfect #2/#3 rn, his complementary attributes (passing, defense, shooting, and to an extent finishing if he's near the basket) are very good.

He hit those same type of shots last year.  Ingram has always been a pretty solid mid-range player.  I expect that to continue.

He was 17 or 24 for 40 points against the Nets last night.  he added 5 rebounds and 5 assists along with 2 steals.  I don't see any reason he won't continue to score as a #1 option.  If he can keep passing and rebounding like this, he has huge potential. 

[Androslav]

To expand on my ranking earlier on, the most portable/scalable skills in basketball are finishing, shooting, defense and passing. These skills scale up the more talented your teammates are simply due to the fact that they aren't dependent on touching the ball to provide value to a team. The best young hybrid forwards in the league, eg. Simmons, Ingram, Tatum, Siakam aren't really good enough to be that high usage perimeter engine in the vein of Jordan/Kobe/Bron/Wade/Kawhi (I'm warming up on Kawhi a LOT this season, his passing is on another level compared to his 2019 championship run) assuming that what Siakam and Ingram are showing this season is merely a hot streak, so how we should rate them as of right now is their efficacy as a second/third option on offense (which can be incredibly valuable, there's only so much value in having a #1 guy on offense, eg. the 2008 Celtics' best player was Kevin Garnett and they still won a title with his #2/#3 qualities lifting his team offense enough to churn out a championship calibre season alongside elite defense, check stats like SRS to see how dominant that squad was).

I'd rank them like this right now:
1. Siakam
2. Ingram
3. Simmons
4. Tatum

Although Ingram's stats are nuts atm, I think he's been unreasonably hot to start the season. His numbers overstate his offense and defense - he still can't drive inside and finish through contact (his preferred move is to pull up for an inefficient midrange shot that's somehow automatic for him so far), and his defensive numbers are pumped up due to the free safety role he gets. I think Siakam's statistical jump is more indicative of his quality (although they're still likely to be inflated a bit) - his passing and shooting have improved, and his defense has slipped a bit (although he's still a good defender), but he still gives you that excellent two way complementary piece that can now be a viable centrepiece. I don't rate Simmons much, his shooting is still god awful and his passing is overrated (the majority of his assists come from post ups and transition plays), but he can still give you a very additive package based on his defensive versatility, finishing and passing (yes it's overrated, but it's by no means bad) that can scale on any team that doesn't have poor spacing. I think Tatum's as good as those guys when it comes to pure "goodness", but I think that his current skillset is between a rock and a hard place - his game is designed to be an offensive centrepiece, but he hasn't developed enough to be a viable high usage engine, and his complementary skills are pretty eh (good outside shooter and plus defender, but is a meh passer and finisher). If Tatum cleans up his passing and finishing as the season progresses I could see him jumping up to #1 in the list, but I don't think I can justify putting him above those forwards right now. Ultimately it's a super small sample size so we'll probably have to wait until the new year before we can start to form any real opinions when it comes to such young players.

Ingram's hot shooting start is from deep not from 2 point range as his 2PT% is basically identical to last year.  His 3PT% is way above the norm, that will obviously come back down at some point.  So I do think he can sustain a lot of what he was doing.  Ingram has always been a fairly efficient scorer and as his touches have gone up he actually hasn't lost much that efficiency.  He is finally getting touches like he is a #1 option and I expect him to continue to score like he is a #1 option. 

I've actually been most impressed by his improvement on the glass and in his passing game.  He has made pretty big strides in both of those areas.  He is also blocking shots at over double his career rate and has the lowest TOV% of his career.  It has been 5 games obviously, but I like what I've seen from Ingram.

Oh I meant his FG% in general-his 3 point shooting has jumped and I expect him to maintain a good percentage there, but a good amount of his twos when he has to create his own offense are pullup twos due to his lack of explosiveness and strength, and he's hitting a pretty obscene percentage of them rn on high volume (he had Bron feeding him last year for more high percentage looks, it's different from hitting a bunch of pullup midrange jumpshots). I don't see him as a #1 scorer until he can consistently drive to the basket and score there-almost every great perimeter engine can force the issue with their driving. Imo Ingram is a perfect #2/#3 rn, his complementary attributes (passing, defense, shooting, and to an extent finishing if he's near the basket) are very good.

He hit those same type of shots last year.  Ingram has always been a pretty solid mid-range player.  I expect that to continue.

He was 17 or 24 for 40 points against the Nets last night.  he added 5 rebounds and 5 assists along with 2 steals.  I don't see any reason he won't continue to score as a #1 option.  If he can keep passing and rebounding like this, he has huge potential.

I don't budge much on a recent high scoring game.
I am still not high on Ingram, at least not in his (true) Allstar ceiling.
It is because he can guard only slow guards or spot-up shooters, weaker perimeter threats.
Any remotely physical forward just truck over him, that is a huge minus.
His outside shot is falling so far this year, but we need more sample size to take that as a reality.
Can Ingram be the first option on a good team? I don't think so.
Can he be 2nd or 3rd option? Only if he defends his position and shoots from the outside well. So far he wasn't able to do either.
He is still 22, so there is some hope.

[Somebody]

To expand on my ranking earlier on, the most portable/scalable skills in basketball are finishing, shooting, defense and passing. These skills scale up the more talented your teammates are simply due to the fact that they aren't dependent on touching the ball to provide value to a team. The best young hybrid forwards in the league, eg. Simmons, Ingram, Tatum, Siakam aren't really good enough to be that high usage perimeter engine in the vein of Jordan/Kobe/Bron/Wade/Kawhi (I'm warming up on Kawhi a LOT this season, his passing is on another level compared to his 2019 championship run) assuming that what Siakam and Ingram are showing this season is merely a hot streak, so how we should rate them as of right now is their efficacy as a second/third option on offense (which can be incredibly valuable, there's only so much value in having a #1 guy on offense, eg. the 2008 Celtics' best player was Kevin Garnett and they still won a title with his #2/#3 qualities lifting his team offense enough to churn out a championship calibre season alongside elite defense, check stats like SRS to see how dominant that squad was).

I'd rank them like this right now:
1. Siakam
2. Ingram
3. Simmons
4. Tatum

Although Ingram's stats are nuts atm, I think he's been unreasonably hot to start the season. His numbers overstate his offense and defense - he still can't drive inside and finish through contact (his preferred move is to pull up for an inefficient midrange shot that's somehow automatic for him so far), and his defensive numbers are pumped up due to the free safety role he gets. I think Siakam's statistical jump is more indicative of his quality (although they're still likely to be inflated a bit) - his passing and shooting have improved, and his defense has slipped a bit (although he's still a good defender), but he still gives you that excellent two way complementary piece that can now be a viable centrepiece. I don't rate Simmons much, his shooting is still god awful and his passing is overrated (the majority of his assists come from post ups and transition plays), but he can still give you a very additive package based on his defensive versatility, finishing and passing (yes it's overrated, but it's by no means bad) that can scale on any team that doesn't have poor spacing. I think Tatum's as good as those guys when it comes to pure "goodness", but I think that his current skillset is between a rock and a hard place - his game is designed to be an offensive centrepiece, but he hasn't developed enough to be a viable high usage engine, and his complementary skills are pretty eh (good outside shooter and plus defender, but is a meh passer and finisher). If Tatum cleans up his passing and finishing as the season progresses I could see him jumping up to #1 in the list, but I don't think I can justify putting him above those forwards right now. Ultimately it's a super small sample size so we'll probably have to wait until the new year before we can start to form any real opinions when it comes to such young players.

Ingram's hot shooting start is from deep not from 2 point range as his 2PT% is basically identical to last year.  His 3PT% is way above the norm, that will obviously come back down at some point.  So I do think he can sustain a lot of what he was doing.  Ingram has always been a fairly efficient scorer and as his touches have gone up he actually hasn't lost much that efficiency.  He is finally getting touches like he is a #1 option and I expect him to continue to score like he is a #1 option. 

I've actually been most impressed by his improvement on the glass and in his passing game.  He has made pretty big strides in both of those areas.  He is also blocking shots at over double his career rate and has the lowest TOV% of his career.  It has been 5 games obviously, but I like what I've seen from Ingram.

Oh I meant his FG% in general-his 3 point shooting has jumped and I expect him to maintain a good percentage there, but a good amount of his twos when he has to create his own offense are pullup twos due to his lack of explosiveness and strength, and he's hitting a pretty obscene percentage of them rn on high volume (he had Bron feeding him last year for more high percentage looks, it's different from hitting a bunch of pullup midrange jumpshots). I don't see him as a #1 scorer until he can consistently drive to the basket and score there-almost every great perimeter engine can force the issue with their driving. Imo Ingram is a perfect #2/#3 rn, his complementary attributes (passing, defense, shooting, and to an extent finishing if he's near the basket) are very good.

He hit those same type of shots last year.  Ingram has always been a pretty solid mid-range player.  I expect that to continue.

He was 17 or 24 for 40 points against the Nets last night.  he added 5 rebounds and 5 assists along with 2 steals.  I don't see any reason he won't continue to score as a #1 option.  If he can keep passing and rebounding like this, he has huge potential.

He was solid last year on a lower volume with LeBron's gravity opening things up for him, it's completely different from taking a bunch of contested pullups.

I actually didn't watch last night's game, but my opinion will still be the same unless he proves in a larger sample size that his shot is Dirk level - he's more of a #2/#3 on offense than your elite perimeter engine imo.

[Moranis]

To expand on my ranking earlier on, the most portable/scalable skills in basketball are finishing, shooting, defense and passing. These skills scale up the more talented your teammates are simply due to the fact that they aren't dependent on touching the ball to provide value to a team. The best young hybrid forwards in the league, eg. Simmons, Ingram, Tatum, Siakam aren't really good enough to be that high usage perimeter engine in the vein of Jordan/Kobe/Bron/Wade/Kawhi (I'm warming up on Kawhi a LOT this season, his passing is on another level compared to his 2019 championship run) assuming that what Siakam and Ingram are showing this season is merely a hot streak, so how we should rate them as of right now is their efficacy as a second/third option on offense (which can be incredibly valuable, there's only so much value in having a #1 guy on offense, eg. the 2008 Celtics' best player was Kevin Garnett and they still won a title with his #2/#3 qualities lifting his team offense enough to churn out a championship calibre season alongside elite defense, check stats like SRS to see how dominant that squad was).

I'd rank them like this right now:
1. Siakam
2. Ingram
3. Simmons
4. Tatum

Although Ingram's stats are nuts atm, I think he's been unreasonably hot to start the season. His numbers overstate his offense and defense - he still can't drive inside and finish through contact (his preferred move is to pull up for an inefficient midrange shot that's somehow automatic for him so far), and his defensive numbers are pumped up due to the free safety role he gets. I think Siakam's statistical jump is more indicative of his quality (although they're still likely to be inflated a bit) - his passing and shooting have improved, and his defense has slipped a bit (although he's still a good defender), but he still gives you that excellent two way complementary piece that can now be a viable centrepiece. I don't rate Simmons much, his shooting is still god awful and his passing is overrated (the majority of his assists come from post ups and transition plays), but he can still give you a very additive package based on his defensive versatility, finishing and passing (yes it's overrated, but it's by no means bad) that can scale on any team that doesn't have poor spacing. I think Tatum's as good as those guys when it comes to pure "goodness", but I think that his current skillset is between a rock and a hard place - his game is designed to be an offensive centrepiece, but he hasn't developed enough to be a viable high usage engine, and his complementary skills are pretty eh (good outside shooter and plus defender, but is a meh passer and finisher). If Tatum cleans up his passing and finishing as the season progresses I could see him jumping up to #1 in the list, but I don't think I can justify putting him above those forwards right now. Ultimately it's a super small sample size so we'll probably have to wait until the new year before we can start to form any real opinions when it comes to such young players.

Ingram's hot shooting start is from deep not from 2 point range as his 2PT% is basically identical to last year.  His 3PT% is way above the norm, that will obviously come back down at some point.  So I do think he can sustain a lot of what he was doing.  Ingram has always been a fairly efficient scorer and as his touches have gone up he actually hasn't lost much that efficiency.  He is finally getting touches like he is a #1 option and I expect him to continue to score like he is a #1 option. 

I've actually been most impressed by his improvement on the glass and in his passing game.  He has made pretty big strides in both of those areas.  He is also blocking shots at over double his career rate and has the lowest TOV% of his career.  It has been 5 games obviously, but I like what I've seen from Ingram.

Oh I meant his FG% in general-his 3 point shooting has jumped and I expect him to maintain a good percentage there, but a good amount of his twos when he has to create his own offense are pullup twos due to his lack of explosiveness and strength, and he's hitting a pretty obscene percentage of them rn on high volume (he had Bron feeding him last year for more high percentage looks, it's different from hitting a bunch of pullup midrange jumpshots). I don't see him as a #1 scorer until he can consistently drive to the basket and score there-almost every great perimeter engine can force the issue with their driving. Imo Ingram is a perfect #2/#3 rn, his complementary attributes (passing, defense, shooting, and to an extent finishing if he's near the basket) are very good.

He hit those same type of shots last year.  Ingram has always been a pretty solid mid-range player.  I expect that to continue.

He was 17 or 24 for 40 points against the Nets last night.  he added 5 rebounds and 5 assists along with 2 steals.  I don't see any reason he won't continue to score as a #1 option.  If he can keep passing and rebounding like this, he has huge potential.

He was solid last year on a lower volume with LeBron's gravity opening things up for him, it's completely different from taking a bunch of contested pullups.

I actually didn't watch last night's game, but my opinion will still be the same unless he proves in a larger sample size that his shot is Dirk level - he's more of a #2/#3 on offense than your elite perimeter engine imo.

his 2nd year, the year before Lebron, he shot 43.4% from 16' to 3 point line.  With Lebron last year he shot 43.7% from that range and he is at 43.8% this year.  And those are a large percentage of his shots at 20%, 14.1%, and 12.8% this year.  He has seen a pretty big spike in his 10'-16' shooting percentage thus far this year, though he has improved that every single season, that will fall back down at some point, but should be in the 40% range, which is still very good from that distance.  He has seen fairly reasonable shooting improvement every year in the league.  he should continue to be a very good, if not elite, shooter.  His main areas of concern have been defensively as he has been a poor defender.  He is more active this year defensively though.  Again, all pretty reasonable for a 4th year player that was one of the youngest players to ever enter the league (in the post-high school era).  I mean he just turned 22 and is in his 4th year (for comparison Brown is almost a full year older). 

[coco]

Luka is even more a guard than Simmons is - not sure he's in the discussion. Would be like bringing Harden into a discussion about Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron & KD

I see Luka the same way I view Larry Bird.....a Point Forward.
LeBron is not on this category as LeBron is not really looking to set-up his teamates as much as as Larry Bird and Luka does/did.

having said that, of the choice on this thread, I think Siakam is probably my pick.  Simmons is good, but his limitations are glaring.  Tatum limitations are easily fixable, but until then, Siakam has the lead.

[Somebody]

Luka is even more a guard than Simmons is - not sure he's in the discussion. Would be like bringing Harden into a discussion about Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron & KD

I see Luka the same way I view Larry Bird.....a Point Forward.
LeBron is not on this category as LeBron is not really looking to set-up his teamates as much as as Larry Bird and Luka does/did.

Very different types of forwards though. Luka is a wing while Bird is a big forward or even a small ball center. It's like comparing Peja to Dirk.

[coco]

Luka is even more a guard than Simmons is - not sure he's in the discussion. Would be like bringing Harden into a discussion about Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron & KD

I see Luka the same way I view Larry Bird.....a Point Forward.
LeBron is not on this category as LeBron is not really looking to set-up his teamates as much as as Larry Bird and Luka does/did.

Very different types of forwards though. Luka is a wing while Bird is a big forward or even a small ball center. It's like comparing Peja to Dirk.

Luka is not a small guy.  I have seen him next to LeBron and he is up there...with better handles and as good or better court vision.

[Jvalin]

Luka is even more a guard than Simmons is - not sure he's in the discussion. Would be like bringing Harden into a discussion about Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron & KD

I see Luka the same way I view Larry Bird.....a Point Forward.
LeBron is not on this category as LeBron is not really looking to set-up his teamates as much as as Larry Bird and Luka does/did.

having said that, of the choice on this thread, I think Siakam is probably my pick.  Simmons is good, but his limitations are glaring.  Tatum limitations are easily fixable, but until then, Siakam has the lead.

Call me crazy, but I think Luka is our generation's Larry Legend. Not so much in terms of playing style (Larry is considerably bigger) as in terms of talent.

Btw, Simmons might be the closest thing we've ever seen to Magic (6'10'', running the point, pass-first mentality).

If only Luka was playing for the C's and Simmons was playing for the Lakers...

[gouki88]

Luka is even more a guard than Simmons is - not sure he's in the discussion. Would be like bringing Harden into a discussion about Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron & KD

I see Luka the same way I view Larry Bird.....a Point Forward.
LeBron is not on this category as LeBron is not really looking to set-up his teamates as much as as Larry Bird and Luka does/did.

having said that, of the choice on this thread, I think Siakam is probably my pick.  Simmons is good, but his limitations are glaring.  Tatum limitations are easily fixable, but until then, Siakam has the lead.

Call me crazy, but I think Luka is our generation's Larry Legend. Not so much in terms of playing style (Larry is considerably bigger) as in terms of talent.

Btw, Simmons might be the closest thing we've ever seen to Magic (6'10'', running the point, pass-first mentality).

If only Luka was playing for the C's and Simmons was playing for the Lakers...

Pretty sure I got hammered around here for saying similar things pre-draft about Luka v Bird

[Somebody]

Luka is even more a guard than Simmons is - not sure he's in the discussion. Would be like bringing Harden into a discussion about Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron & KD

I see Luka the same way I view Larry Bird.....a Point Forward.
LeBron is not on this category as LeBron is not really looking to set-up his teamates as much as as Larry Bird and Luka does/did.

having said that, of the choice on this thread, I think Siakam is probably my pick.  Simmons is good, but his limitations are glaring.  Tatum limitations are easily fixable, but until then, Siakam has the lead.

Call me crazy, but I think Luka is our generation's Larry Legend. Not so much in terms of playing style (Larry is considerably bigger) as in terms of talent.

Btw, Simmons might be the closest thing we've ever seen to Magic (6'10'', running the point, pass-first mentality).

If only Luka was playing for the C's and Simmons was playing for the Lakers...

Pretty sure I got hammered around here for saying similar things pre-draft about Luka v Bird

Because they have massively different physical builds and actually play very differently. Bird was the greatest off ball forward ever, he blended shooting and passing perfectly in a mainly off ball style of play. Doncic needs the ball on offense. Bird in the first trimester of his career was also an All-League defender, I don't see Doncic ever coming close to that.

It's easy to compare them because they're both white forwards who're comfortable with the ball in their hands, but the way they play couldn't be any more different.

Edit: alright I missed the talent part, but even then I still disagree. Bird's talent was his amazing eye hand coordination and awareness in making quick decisions while Doncic's talent fits in a situation where he dominates the ball. I'd take Bird's talent over Doncic's every day, the package he brings is probably the most portable perimeter offense of all time among his contemporaries.

[moiso]

Luka is even more a guard than Simmons is - not sure he's in the discussion. Would be like bringing Harden into a discussion about Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron & KD

I see Luka the same way I view Larry Bird.....a Point Forward.
LeBron is not on this category as LeBron is not really looking to set-up his teamates as much as as Larry Bird and Luka does/did.

having said that, of the choice on this thread, I think Siakam is probably my pick.  Simmons is good, but his limitations are glaring.  Tatum limitations are easily fixable, but until then, Siakam has the lead.

Call me crazy, but I think Luka is our generation's Larry Legend. Not so much in terms of playing style (Larry is considerably bigger) as in terms of talent.

Btw, Simmons might be the closest thing we've ever seen to Magic (6'10'', running the point, pass-first mentality).

If only Luka was playing for the C's and Simmons was playing for the Lakers...

Simmons is very Magic-like.  Jokic is the guy who frequently reminds me of Bird in terms of playing style.

[tazzmaniac]

Luka is even more a guard than Simmons is - not sure he's in the discussion. Would be like bringing Harden into a discussion about Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron & KD

I see Luka the same way I view Larry Bird.....a Point Forward.
LeBron is not on this category as LeBron is not really looking to set-up his teamates as much as as Larry Bird and Luka does/did.

having said that, of the choice on this thread, I think Siakam is probably my pick.  Simmons is good, but his limitations are glaring.  Tatum limitations are easily fixable, but until then, Siakam has the lead.

Call me crazy, but I think Luka is our generation's Larry Legend. Not so much in terms of playing style (Larry is considerably bigger) as in terms of talent.

Btw, Simmons might be the closest thing we've ever seen to Magic (6'10'', running the point, pass-first mentality).

If only Luka was playing for the C's and Simmons was playing for the Lakers...

Simmons is very Magic-like.  Jokic is the guy who frequently reminds me of Bird in terms of playing style.

Simmons is a poor facsimile of Magic.  If he had Magic's winner mentality, the Sixers would be the clear favorite.  Magic wasn't a good shooter but he was never afraid to shoot. 

[Somebody]

Luka is even more a guard than Simmons is - not sure he's in the discussion. Would be like bringing Harden into a discussion about Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron & KD

I see Luka the same way I view Larry Bird.....a Point Forward.
LeBron is not on this category as LeBron is not really looking to set-up his teamates as much as as Larry Bird and Luka does/did.

having said that, of the choice on this thread, I think Siakam is probably my pick.  Simmons is good, but his limitations are glaring.  Tatum limitations are easily fixable, but until then, Siakam has the lead.

Call me crazy, but I think Luka is our generation's Larry Legend. Not so much in terms of playing style (Larry is considerably bigger) as in terms of talent.

Btw, Simmons might be the closest thing we've ever seen to Magic (6'10'', running the point, pass-first mentality).

If only Luka was playing for the C's and Simmons was playing for the Lakers...

Simmons is very Magic-like.  Jokic is the guy who frequently reminds me of Bird in terms of playing style.

Simmons is a poor facsimile of Magic.  If he had Magic's winner mentality, the Sixers would be the clear favorite.  Magic wasn't a good shooter but he was never afraid to shoot.

Magic was also a much better passer in the half court.

[tazzmaniac]

Luka is even more a guard than Simmons is - not sure he's in the discussion. Would be like bringing Harden into a discussion about Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron & KD

I see Luka the same way I view Larry Bird.....a Point Forward.
LeBron is not on this category as LeBron is not really looking to set-up his teamates as much as as Larry Bird and Luka does/did.

having said that, of the choice on this thread, I think Siakam is probably my pick.  Simmons is good, but his limitations are glaring.  Tatum limitations are easily fixable, but until then, Siakam has the lead.

Call me crazy, but I think Luka is our generation's Larry Legend. Not so much in terms of playing style (Larry is considerably bigger) as in terms of talent.

Btw, Simmons might be the closest thing we've ever seen to Magic (6'10'', running the point, pass-first mentality).

If only Luka was playing for the C's and Simmons was playing for the Lakers...

Simmons is very Magic-like.  Jokic is the guy who frequently reminds me of Bird in terms of playing style.

Simmons is a poor facsimile of Magic.  If he had Magic's winner mentality, the Sixers would be the clear favorite.  Magic wasn't a good shooter but he was never afraid to shoot.

Magic was also a much better passer in the half court.

Definitely.  Now Simmons is a better defender. 

[Somebody]

Luka is even more a guard than Simmons is - not sure he's in the discussion. Would be like bringing Harden into a discussion about Kawhi, Giannis, LeBron & KD

I see Luka the same way I view Larry Bird.....a Point Forward.
LeBron is not on this category as LeBron is not really looking to set-up his teamates as much as as Larry Bird and Luka does/did.

having said that, of the choice on this thread, I think Siakam is probably my pick.  Simmons is good, but his limitations are glaring.  Tatum limitations are easily fixable, but until then, Siakam has the lead.

Call me crazy, but I think Luka is our generation's Larry Legend. Not so much in terms of playing style (Larry is considerably bigger) as in terms of talent.

Btw, Simmons might be the closest thing we've ever seen to Magic (6'10'', running the point, pass-first mentality).

If only Luka was playing for the C's and Simmons was playing for the Lakers...

Simmons is very Magic-like.  Jokic is the guy who frequently reminds me of Bird in terms of playing style.

Simmons is a poor facsimile of Magic.  If he had Magic's winner mentality, the Sixers would be the clear favorite.  Magic wasn't a good shooter but he was never afraid to shoot.

Magic was also a much better passer in the half court.

Definitely.  Now Simmons is a better defender.

Better is an understatement lol. Magic is one of the most overrated players ever imo-people don't seem to realise how bang average his defense was (I'd even say that Curry's defense is better than his). Transcendent offense but neutral defense with problematic longevity doesn't make you a GOAT candidate lol.