Poll

Well is he?

Yes, he is a minister of defence shooting 37% from downtown.
8 (53.3%)
No, he is not, there are folks in front of him.
5 (33.3%)
I can't decide just yet, it an opened question.
2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Author Topic: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?  (Read 4661 times)

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Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2019, 09:50:25 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Klay Thompson.

Is only 70 percent of the defender Smart is
He is more than 70 percent the defender, but he is also about 4 times the 3 point shooter.  He only takes about 41% of his attempts from 3 though, which probably isn't enough for the 3 and D moniker.  Smart is like 62.5% so he definitely fits that description better even though his 3 point shooting is average.  Oddly enough Steph Curry takes 59% of his shots from 3.  I was surprised he was that many.  Middleton mentioned in this thread shoots about 45% of his attempts from 3.  So more than Klay, but I feel like you need to be in excess of 50% to be considered a 3 and D type player. 

The guy that this classification was created for is and basically always has been Robert Covington.  By every single measure he is the prototypical 3 and D player.  Career average of 62.3% of his attempts from 3 (60.4% this year), hitting those at 36% for his career (the last couple much higher including 37.8% this year), while playing elite level defense of multiple positions.  At one point this year, was the favorite for DPOY (and he will still get a lot of votes) as he anchored two separate defenses that got significantly worse (or significantly better) when he left (or joined) the team.

While not on RoCo's level, I thought it would be nice to give Iman Shumpert a shout out, as he is hitting at 37.3% and 58% of his attempts are 3's.  By far the best wing defender on the Kings.  Again, not on RoCo's level, but good enough to mention.
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Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2019, 11:26:20 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Klay Thompson.

Is only 70 percent of the defender Smart is
He is more than 70 percent the defender, but he is also about 4 times the 3 point shooter.  He only takes about 41% of his attempts from 3 though, which probably isn't enough for the 3 and D moniker.  Smart is like 62.5% so he definitely fits that description better even though his 3 point shooting is average.  Oddly enough Steph Curry takes 59% of his shots from 3.  I was surprised he was that many.  Middleton mentioned in this thread shoots about 45% of his attempts from 3.  So more than Klay, but I feel like you need to be in excess of 50% to be considered a 3 and D type player. 

The guy that this classification was created for is and basically always has been Robert Covington.  By every single measure he is the prototypical 3 and D player.  Career average of 62.3% of his attempts from 3 (60.4% this year), hitting those at 36% for his career (the last couple much higher including 37.8% this year), while playing elite level defense of multiple positions.  At one point this year, was the favorite for DPOY (and he will still get a lot of votes) as he anchored two separate defenses that got significantly worse (or significantly better) when he left (or joined) the team.

While not on RoCo's level, I thought it would be nice to give Iman Shumpert a shout out, as he is hitting at 37.3% and 58% of his attempts are 3's.  By far the best wing defender on the Kings.  Again, not on RoCo's level, but good enough to mention.

I think he is overrated. Afterall he neither shot well nor slowed anyone down when we fought his team last playoffs.

Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2019, 11:38:56 AM »

Offline The Oracle

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To me Smart is to good of a playmaker/passer to be considered just a 3 and D guy. 

Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2019, 11:39:36 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Otto Porter, to me, is the prototypical 3-and-D player and he's been so good at it he actually got paid like he was a star when he's definitely a role player.
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Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2019, 11:55:42 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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To me Smart is to good of a playmaker/passer to be considered just a 3 and D guy.

I agree. He can also punish guys in the post on offense. He’s a multifaceted player. Calling him a 3 and D player is pigeon holing him

Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2019, 12:12:55 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Klay Thompson.

Is only 70 percent of the defender Smart is
He is more than 70 percent the defender, but he is also about 4 times the 3 point shooter.  He only takes about 41% of his attempts from 3 though, which probably isn't enough for the 3 and D moniker.  Smart is like 62.5% so he definitely fits that description better even though his 3 point shooting is average.  Oddly enough Steph Curry takes 59% of his shots from 3.  I was surprised he was that many.  Middleton mentioned in this thread shoots about 45% of his attempts from 3.  So more than Klay, but I feel like you need to be in excess of 50% to be considered a 3 and D type player. 

The guy that this classification was created for is and basically always has been Robert Covington.  By every single measure he is the prototypical 3 and D player.  Career average of 62.3% of his attempts from 3 (60.4% this year), hitting those at 36% for his career (the last couple much higher including 37.8% this year), while playing elite level defense of multiple positions.  At one point this year, was the favorite for DPOY (and he will still get a lot of votes) as he anchored two separate defenses that got significantly worse (or significantly better) when he left (or joined) the team.

While not on RoCo's level, I thought it would be nice to give Iman Shumpert a shout out, as he is hitting at 37.3% and 58% of his attempts are 3's.  By far the best wing defender on the Kings.  Again, not on RoCo's level, but good enough to mention.

I think he is overrated. Afterall he neither shot well nor slowed anyone down when we fought his team last playoffs.
Covington is a streaky shooter.  He also had a hand injury that he had surgery on after the playoffs.  He's a good on-ball defender not great but his real strength is the deflections/steals he creates.  The Sixers really miss him on defense. 

Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2019, 12:13:27 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Otto Porter, to me, is the prototypical 3-and-D player and he's been so good at it he actually got paid like he was a star when he's definitely a role player.
Was it the Nets who gave him that offer sheet? 

Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2019, 12:43:20 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I don't think it's fair to Marcus Smart to classify him as a 3&D player, given his ball-handling and facilitating abilities.  Smart bring so much more to the game than just threes and defense.

Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2019, 01:00:45 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Otto Porter, to me, is the prototypical 3-and-D player and he's been so good at it he actually got paid like he was a star when he's definitely a role player.
Was it the Nets who gave him that offer sheet?

Yes.

Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2019, 03:27:58 PM »

Offline feckless

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Klay Thompson.

Is only 70 percent of the defender Smart is

Anybody out there that wouldn't trade Marcus for Klay straight up?

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Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2019, 03:56:13 PM »

Offline colincb

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Klay Thompson.

Is only 70 percent of the defender Smart is

Anybody out there that wouldn't trade Marcus for Klay straight up?

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No one in their right mind doesn't drive Smart to the airport and makes sure he gets on the plane.

Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2019, 04:30:04 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Marcus doesn't deserve this label IMO.

As far as 3&D role players, in the playoffs I'd choose Danny Green. Guy's streaky especially in the regular season ... but seems to step up in the playoffs and hit big shots, has championship experience, etc. And plays really good defense against GSW imo.

Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2019, 11:22:50 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Marcus doesn't deserve this label IMO.

As far as 3&D role players, in the playoffs I'd choose Danny Green. Guy's streaky especially in the regular season ... but seems to step up in the playoffs and hit big shots, has championship experience, etc. And plays really good defense against GSW imo.

Also a good lockerroom guy and doesnt complain about minutes or touches.

Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2019, 03:46:40 AM »

Offline Androslav

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I don't think it's fair to Marcus Smart to classify him as a 3&D player, given his ball-handling and facilitating abilities.  Smart bring so much more to the game than just threes and defense.
A think that a lot of people are overestimating Marcus as a playmaker.
Don't get me wrong, he can be a "steward" on offense, but not really a facilitator of some potent offense.
We have him for 5 years now, he never led a good offense as a starter or primary ballhandler, regardless of our talent ATT.
Trouble is he can't penetrate, create pressure on the defense, get to the line with regularity, nor finish over the top.
He doesn't scare and draw the defense when he does.
Also, his career TO rate is at .153, which is just high. We drafted him as a playmaker, but that didn't work out as planned.
His handle is OK, but not above average for the position he plays.
Therefore we moved him to the off-guard spot. No biggie, he is more valuable there.

Marcus does "think fast" with the ball, he has some vision, he will swing it to the opened man without hesitation or monitoring the situation at first.
He will dribble it to open space if he sees an opening. He has that software.
Those are some of the qualities of a playmaker but not all that is necessary to be one.
Joe Ingles, Kyle Anderson also do that, but none sees them as playmakers per se.

The 3&D classification I use for Marcus is not a diss on him in any way, I think it is the appropriate one for this and future phases of his career.

Poll added.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 05:13:57 AM by Androslav »
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Re: Is Smart the best 3&D player in the league?
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2019, 06:17:45 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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I don't think it's fair to Marcus Smart to classify him as a 3&D player, given his ball-handling and facilitating abilities.  Smart bring so much more to the game than just threes and defense.
A think that a lot of people are overestimating Marcus as a playmaker.
Don't get me wrong, he can be a "steward" on offense, but not really a facilitator of some potent offense.
We have him for 5 years now, he never led a good offense as a starter or primary ballhandler, regardless of our talent ATT.
Trouble is he can't penetrate, create pressure on the defense, get to the line with regularity, nor finish over the top.
He doesn't scare and draw the defense when he does.
Also, his career TO rate is at .153, which is just high. We drafted him as a playmaker, but that didn't work out as planned.
His handle is OK, but not above average for the position he plays.
Therefore we moved him to the off-guard spot. No biggie, he is more valuable there.

Marcus does "think fast" with the ball, he has some vision, he will swing it to the opened man without hesitation or monitoring the situation at first.
He will dribble it to open space if he sees an opening. He has that software.
Those are some of the qualities of a playmaker but not all that is necessary to be one.
Joe Ingles, Kyle Anderson also do that, but none sees them as playmakers per se.

The 3&D classification I use for Marcus is not a diss on him in any way, I think it is the appropriate one for this and future phases of his career.

Poll added.

Kyle Anderson is viewed as a playmaker. He is advertised as a point forward. What you are describing is a great playmaker, not playmaker alone. You don't have to be elite at it to be able to qualify as a good playmaker.

Smart does a good of directing an offense, he makes nice passes. He doesnt need to make fancy passes or show top notch vision to qualify as a playmaker.