Author Topic: David Aldridge: Butler trade is very real but stuck- Ainge won't include Crowder  (Read 29418 times)

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Offline hpantazo

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Has anyone her drawn a comparison of Butler to Pierce?   I know they aren't identical, but they play the 2/3 and are similar size (Pierce stronger) and both have the ability to create their own offense.   I tend to think of PP as the superior offensive player and JB as the superior defensive player -- but frankly I don't see enough Butler to be sure.   But the bottom line is that PP in his prime was probably right around where Butler is in terms of NBA ranking.  If we use a truly unscientific metric and say that JB is essentially the PP comp, that maybe IT (more or less) is RA (IT is offensively more diverse than RA was at 33; but defensively not big enough) and uhhhh AL is KG...  Obviously a dramatic downgrade on the AL-KG comp, but it allows one lens through which to view contending readiness.   Of course, the competition will determine true readiness.

Not ready to contend still with Butler, but maybe within shouting distance?

I think PP was better. He developed into quite a good defender, with a very good defensive rep among some of the better NBA analysts. Better offensive player too, with a more proven consistent peak.

Yeah. How quickly people forget the defensive job Pierce did on Lebron and Kobe in that 2008 playoff run.

Offline heyvik

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?


Offline incoherent

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Im sorry but the number 1 pick in the draft and a prospect should be enough, no way we give up the best contract in the league.

Offline jacigar

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No way we trade either Brooklyn pick. Only chance to get young star G 1017 and young star Big 2018. Look at Ayton and Bamba in 2018 . May be only chance forplayer like AD or Towns.

Offline LGC88

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Lol, the whole discussion, Aldridge keep saying "I think..., I think..."
But people here take it as fact and are already emotional about it.

Offline Csfan1984

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?
Speculating.

Offline kozlodoev

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Has anyone her drawn a comparison of Butler to Pierce?   I know they aren't identical, but they play the 2/3 and are similar size (Pierce stronger) and both have the ability to create their own offense.   I tend to think of PP as the superior offensive player and JB as the superior defensive player -- but frankly I don't see enough Butler to be sure.   But the bottom line is that PP in his prime was probably right around where Butler is in terms of NBA ranking.  If we use a truly unscientific metric and say that JB is essentially the PP comp, that maybe IT (more or less) is RA (IT is offensively more diverse than RA was at 33; but defensively not big enough) and uhhhh AL is KG...  Obviously a dramatic downgrade on the AL-KG comp, but it allows one lens through which to view contending readiness.   Of course, the competition will determine true readiness.

Not ready to contend still with Butler, but maybe within shouting distance?

I think PP was better. He developed into quite a good defender, with a very good defensive rep among some of the better NBA analysts. Better offensive player too, with a more proven consistent peak.

Yeah. How quickly people forget the defensive job Pierce did on Lebron and Kobe in that 2008 playoff run.
Right, except Season 6 Paul Pierce wasn't all that different from Season 6 Jimmy Butler. Can't hold the fact that you don't have a crystal ball into the next 10 years of his career against Butler.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Offline saltlover

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Just speculation.  My gut says it's 2017 Brooklyn, Jae, Zeller, and a future non-Brooklyn 1st or Rozier.  I think Ainge does the deal if it's Bradley instead of Crowder.

Offline celticinorlando

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Just speculation.  My gut says it's 2017 Brooklyn, Jae, Zeller, and a future non-Brooklyn 1st or Rozier.  I think Ainge does the deal if it's Bradley instead of Crowder.

Reading the Chicago boards...they do not want Crowder. They want the 2 #1's, rozier. they want to go full tank mode and have four high #1s over the next two-three years

Offline BitterJim

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Danny is looking to make a FA splash this summer...will be interesting. Durant and Curry will not leave GS...will Griffin want to move? Danny has seem to want him

Hayward seems like a fit..but is he a max player?

This is why I think people waiting for another "FA splash" this summer are in for a rude awakening.. Durant is staying where he is, Griffin is an injury waiting to happen and is not the same player most are thinking of (highlight reel machine), and that's IF he decided to sign here which is unlikely.. and Hayward is the type of player you add as your 3rd option. Not your second or first. And does he make you that much better? To take a page out of some other people's book here, is he THAT much better than Bradley? How about Crowder? Not to mention, barring another deal, you would be putting one of those 2 on the bench if you sign Hayward. And neither would be happy with that.. also signing Hayward to a max deal hurts your flexibility even more going forward. Butler is on a friendlier contract. 17.5 mil compared to 26.5 for a max deal.

So.. I don't know, maybe someone else can think of another player who moves the needle free agency. Cause I don't see it, personally.

No one here expects Durant or highlight reel Blake to come here in FA.  Actually, I don't think anyone EXPECTS any player to.  But there's a huge difference between expecting either of those things and the reality, which is feeling that you're better off trying for Hayward and Griffin (who may not have the same athleticism, but is still a great rebounder and would fit perfectly into Brad's system) and then still having the option to go for Butler/George than you are just trading for Butler now.  Hayward may not be a #1 option (although he's doing a great job of it right now), but here he would be the 2nd or 3rd option (depending on whether we made another deal after signing him). "We might have too many good players and have to move one to the bench if we sign him" is not a problem, worst case you move Bradley (who is due for a new contract soon anyway) in a deal, preferably for a star.

There is no salary cap flexability after this offseason. IT will need to get paid, and so will Smart and AB.  This is our last real shot at any free agents.
I'm bitter.

Offline Irish Stew

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As the hosts on sports talk radio say, these two separate trades with the Knicks and Bulls are "Celtics ****" to me.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j85s7h3

Bulls get Nets17. Knicks get a 2nd rounder.

Starters:

Horford

Anthony

Butler

Smart

Thomas

Bench: Green  Olynyk  Mickey  Rozier  (Bogut buy out? Sanders?)

Next year add Zizic and possibly Yabusele.

Offline tankcity!

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Just speculation.  My gut says it's 2017 Brooklyn, Jae, Zeller, and a future non-Brooklyn 1st or Rozier.  I think Ainge does the deal if it's Bradley instead of Crowder.

Reading the Chicago boards...they do not want Crowder. They want the 2 #1's, rozier. they want to go full tank mode and have four high #1s over the next two-three years

Good for them. They're not getting it lol. They can keep Butler and continue to be a dysfunctional organization. People keep forgetting we can just sign Paul George in 2018 when Thomas will be a free agent....

Offline saltlover

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Just speculation.  My gut says it's 2017 Brooklyn, Jae, Zeller, and a future non-Brooklyn 1st or Rozier.  I think Ainge does the deal if it's Bradley instead of Crowder.

Reading the Chicago boards...they do not want Crowder. They want the 2 #1's, rozier. they want to go full tank mode and have four high #1s over the next two-three years

Yeah, I saw that article and laughed.

Offline Granath

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can anyone let me know what the current trade proposal is without Jae?

I know David Aldridge pointed out that Jae is a sticking point, but what are the other parameters based on his article? Or is everyone speculating what the offer is?

Just speculation.  My gut says it's 2017 Brooklyn, Jae, Zeller, and a future non-Brooklyn 1st or Rozier.  I think Ainge does the deal if it's Bradley instead of Crowder.

TP. I believe you're probably spot on.

I think Ainge is thinking about Lebron in the playoffs. If we don't have Crowder then it's up to Butler to guard him for 7 games. While Butler is no slouch, Lebron is just physically much more powerful than Butler and that's not going to help Butler's game on either end of the court (not to mention the inevitable ticky-tack fouls Lebron will get in the playoffs).

But if you have Crowder and Butler now you've got something going. You can put on the court a lineup of IT, Smart, Butler, Crowder and Horford. There's some amazing defensive talent that matches up well against Cleveland and fair amount of size/strength on the court as well. It still doesn't mean the Cs would be favored but they'd have a chance. But without Crowder I'm not sure they have much of one. If Danny is thinking this way then he's right not to make the deal. No use if it doesn't substantially improve the overall odds of winning a championship.
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Yeah I think Ainge is right.  Butler/Crowder is a both devastating and financially responsible, while Bradley / Butler is a big upgrade, but it's not the same.  BK 17 + Bradley + Amir is a nice package, take it or leave it.  We'll be fine either way and Chicago will be the 8 seed or miss the playoffs.  It's really their loss.