Ok fine, i'll be the first to bring it up... (BBD starting over KG, merged)

[Taklamar]

Data pulled from 82games.com.  Didn't see anything for 07-08 reg season.  Quick calculations on the +/- Per36.

I don't think Davis' numbers this year reflect his normal, obviously.  Small sample size plus coming back from injury.  Even his best overall stint here, the 08-09 playoffs, put him at half of the per36 of KG's worst performance, the 07-08 playoffs where they struggled to gel as a team.

Player  Minutes Off     Def       +/-         +/- Per36

09-10
Garnett 1179.4   1.13     1.00     +299         9.14
Davis      46.7   0.90     1.26      -33        -25.5
 
08-09
Garnett 1074     1.11     0.98     +260         8.72
Davis      361     1.09     1.15     -39         -3.89

08-09 Playoffs
Davis      276     1.09     1.05     +24          3.13

07-08 Playoffs
Garnett   442     1.06     0.97     +77          6.27

[looseball]

I'd be happy if they split the game.

That pretty much sums up my feeling, is that instead of seeing KG in for 30 mins, against teams we want to run on, we should see Davis for 25 mins at least.

KG needs to play 36 or so minutes a game, he's still our best defensive big man by a good margin.

Also KG runs pretty well, he's not like Perkins/Sheed in that he never runs.

KG is our best big man, obviously.  But he can no longer sustain his energy level for 36 minutes, even without back to back games.  It's part of the reason we fade in the fourth quarter.  He'll give more quality minutes if he plays closer to 30.

We're a better team when a lot of guys play a lot of minutes, like game 2 where 9 guys played 14 or more minutes.  We keep the pressure on better and maintain the intensity on defense.  When the older guys play big minutes, they tend to go flat for periods of time.   

[Jon]

OK, I'll be the first to say it: Glen Davis was overrated last night.  

I'll praise his hustle till I'm blue in the face, but that's what really got him his points.  And that's good.  However, let's not forget the first quarter when he had his shot blocked, what, 4-5-6 times?  

Part of the reason that stopped is that Miami gave up.  Once the Celtics went on their run, plays where BBD would've likely had his shot blocked became plays that Miami was playing at half speed.  

More importantly, while we can praise Miami all we want now, the fact of the matter is that Miami really isn't all that big up front.  While Beasley is 6-10, he plays like he's about 6-7.  Bigger and more athletic teams like Cleveland and Orlando (teams we'll have to play to get to #18) are going to be five times as bad for BBD.  

That's not to say we don't play him.  His hustle is great.  But to think he deserves anything close to the minutes KG should be playing is really overestimating last night (and Miami) and not looking ahead to the realities of later rounds.

And while you can make the argument that he should take most of Wallace's minutes in a 4/5 rotation solely comprised of KG/Perk/BBD, I'd be wary of that too.  When we're playing teams with more size and athleticism down the road, we may find ourselves needing Wallace to be Wallace in order to beat them.  

[2short]

OK, I'll be the first to say it: Glen Davis was overrated last night.  

I'll praise his hustle till I'm blue in the face, but that's what really got him his points.  And that's good.  However, let's not forget the first quarter when he had his shot blocked, what, 4-5-6 times?  

Part of the reason that stopped is that Miami gave up.  Once the Celtics went on their run, plays where BBD would've likely had his shot blocked became plays that Miami was playing at half speed.  

More importantly, while we can praise Miami all we want now, the fact of the matter is that Miami really isn't all that big up front.  While Beasley is 6-10, he plays like he's about 6-7.  Bigger and more athletic teams like Cleveland and Orlando (teams we'll have to play to get to #18) are going to be five times as worse for BBD.  

That's not to say we don't play him.  His hustle is great.  But to think he deserves anything close to the minutes KG should be playing is really overestimating last night (and Miami) and not looking ahead to the realities of later rounds.

And while you can make the argument that he should take most of Wallace's minutes in a 4/5 rotation solely comprised of KG/Perk/BBD, I'd be wary of that too.  When we're playing teams with more size and athleticism down the road, we may find ourselves needing Wallace to be Wallace in order to beat them.  

to the pt, for a tommy point

[Fafnir]

While Beasley is 6-10, he plays like he's about 6-7.

Beasley is only 6-7 or 6-8 at the most.

[Spilling Green Dye]

OK, I'll be the first to say it: Glen Davis was overrated last night.  

I'll praise his hustle till I'm blue in the face, but that's what really got him his points.  And that's good.  However, let's not forget the first quarter when he had his shot blocked, what, 4-5-6 times?  

Part of the reason that stopped is that Miami gave up.  Once the Celtics went on their run, plays where BBD would've likely had his shot blocked became plays that Miami was playing at half speed.  

More importantly, while we can praise Miami all we want now, the fact of the matter is that Miami really isn't all that big up front.  While Beasley is 6-10, he plays like he's about 6-7.  Bigger and more athletic teams like Cleveland and Orlando (teams we'll have to play to get to #18) are going to be five times as bad for BBD.  

That's not to say we don't play him.  His hustle is great.  But to think he deserves anything close to the minutes KG should be playing is really overestimating last night (and Miami) and not looking ahead to the realities of later rounds.

And while you can make the argument that he should take most of Wallace's minutes in a 4/5 rotation solely comprised of KG/Perk/BBD, I'd be wary of that too.  When we're playing teams with more size and athleticism down the road, we may find ourselves needing Wallace to be Wallace in order to beat them.  

If only you had written this before I made similar posts, I could have quoted you and saved myself the trouble.  TP to you sir.

[nickagneta]

OK, I'll be the first to say it: Glen Davis was overrated last night.  

I'll praise his hustle till I'm blue in the face, but that's what really got him his points.  And that's good.  However, let's not forget the first quarter when he had his shot blocked, what, 4-5-6 times?  

Part of the reason that stopped is that Miami gave up.  Once the Celtics went on their run, plays where BBD would've likely had his shot blocked became plays that Miami was playing at half speed.  

More importantly, while we can praise Miami all we want now, the fact of the matter is that Miami really isn't all that big up front.  While Beasley is 6-10, he plays like he's about 6-7.  Bigger and more athletic teams like Cleveland and Orlando (teams we'll have to play to get to #18) are going to be five times as bad for BBD.  

That's not to say we don't play him.  His hustle is great.  But to think he deserves anything close to the minutes KG should be playing is really overestimating last night (and Miami) and not looking ahead to the realities of later rounds.

And while you can make the argument that he should take most of Wallace's minutes in a 4/5 rotation solely comprised of KG/Perk/BBD, I'd be wary of that too.  When we're playing teams with more size and athleticism down the road, we may find ourselves needing Wallace to be Wallace in order to beat them.  

If only you had written this before I made similar posts, I could have quoted you and saved myself the trouble.  TP to you sir.

Just want everyone who is criticizing Davis' play the other night because he got a bunch of shots blocked by Miami's supposedly inferior front line that Miami actually was 4th in the league in blocked shots per game as a team tied with that of the much more athletic front line of Orlando and better than that of the much more athletic front line of Cleveland.

Davis is playing a role his game is not best suited for, under the basket PF, because Rasheed Wallace is playing the perimeter big. Because of that he is going to get a lot of shots blocked because he's short, has short arms and no lift. Discounting his tremendous game the other night because he had some shots because he is playing in a role that is going to cause him to have a bunch of shots blocked while playing against one of the best shot blocking teams in the league is pretty harsh criticism, IMHO.

[Celtics17]

Ha Ha, yeah, we are a much better team with KG watching at Danny's house. The thing is though, in Miami, he wont be able to watch it from Danny's house so what say we just put him in the game. The thought of KG not being our best player on D is kind of funny and I love Perk's D. We are not a better squad with KG out. In certain situations we might actually be but certainly not overall.

[LarBrd33]

Obese is a fat bum with a big mouth that I hope we trade in the offseason.  He succeeds, because nobody gameplans for his tub of lard and is focusing on the other 4 starters that are far more important.  As a result, he gets a couple wide open layups and few wide open jumpers.   He hurts us defensively and makes it harder for everyone else when he's in the game.   Last night felt flukey.   Miami rolled over.  Ray was hitting his shots. 

[Birdbrain]

I always find these type of threads interesting.  You have the OP making a point about starting Davis while noting the importance of KG to the team.  Then you have several hyperbolic responses that go completely overboard the other way ( +/- stats for subs, Davis was actually overrated last night lol, blocked shots... ).  Most of these responses ironically were by posters that thought he shouldn't have started last night in the first place...

So basically we've come full circle and Davis is still the dude with bad +/- that gets his shocked blocked all the time...oh and shelden needs his minutes lol.  Not too mention childish posts from adults. 

I prefer KG starts and the rotations stay the same but, using stats to make your case. Especially stats that don't take into account the fact that KG isn't what he was even last years makes little sense.

Have a nice day.

Lobotomies stat!!!

[FatjohnReturns]

Basketball is all about chemistry. Since KG original injury the starters dont seem to have it most nights. Could this be because as a team we are just to slow? Perkins,Pierce and a hobbeled Garnett is a extermly slow froncourt.

Davis will never be a better player than KG. Right now at this moment in time could he be a better fit for the team? The only way to find out would to start Davis and have Garnett be the sixth man. Doc doesnt have the jewels for this so we will never know.

[Fafnir]

I always find these type of threads interesting.  You have the OP making a point about starting Davis while noting the importance of KG to the team.  Then you have several hyperbolic responses that go completely overboard the other way ( +/- stats for subs, Davis was actually overrated last night lol, blocked shots... ).  Most of these responses ironically were by posters that thought he shouldn't have started last night in the first place...

He was suggesting that we sit Garnett for Davis in certain match ups, he suggested that it could help the team:

However...  i can't help but think that against certain teams, he's not always the best option on the floor.  I will back this up with my observations, especially from Game 2 last night.

I and others rebutted this, we provide arguments and evidence to the contrary. He even asked for some stats, such as fast break points. We brought in the stats we have on hand, +/- being the most easily relevant to the debate. What is wrong with that?

o basically we've come full circle and Davis is still the dude with bad +/- that gets his shocked blocked all the time...oh and shelden needs his minutes lol.  Not too mention childish posts from adults.

Care to rebut these unnamed "posters", or instead of generalities and disparaging the conversation? Instead of a negative drive by post, raise the level of debate.

I prefer KG starts and the rotations stay the same but, using stats to make your case. Especially stats that don't take into account the fact that KG isn't what he was even last years makes little sense.

Have a nice day.

Lobotomies stat!!!

What stats don't take this into account, its pretty clear KG has declined by every statistical metric from +/-, PER, and straight boxscore. What you're saying is flat out false.

[Fafnir]

Basketball is all about chemistry. Since KG original injury the starters dont seem to have it most nights. Could this be because as a team we are just to slow? Perkins,Pierce and a hobbeled Garnett is a extermly slow froncourt.

Davis will never be a better player than KG. Right now at this moment in time could he be a better fit for the team? The only way to find out would to start Davis and have Garnett be the sixth man. Doc doesnt have the jewels for this so we will never know.

Garnett is a faster defensive PF than Glen Davis even now. Taking Garnett out of the front court makes it slower not faster.

[FatjohnReturns]

Basketball is all about chemistry. Since KG original injury the starters dont seem to have it most nights. Could this be because as a team we are just to slow? Perkins,Pierce and a hobbeled Garnett is a extermly slow froncourt.

Davis will never be a better player than KG. Right now at this moment in time could he be a better fit for the team? The only way to find out would to start Davis and have Garnett be the sixth man. Doc doesnt have the jewels for this so we will never know.

Garnett is a faster defensive PF than Glen Davis even now.

Faster how?  not laterally. He has not been able to move side to side well since the original injury. My guess is he is probably 60% of what he did in 07/08.

Obviously Glen is hungry. Doc should give him a chance and see what happens. What would be the worse that could happen if he started Davis over KG?  KG feathers get ruffeled a bit. He would probably come in with more fire.

[Fafnir]

Basketball is all about chemistry. Since KG original injury the starters dont seem to have it most nights. Could this be because as a team we are just to slow? Perkins,Pierce and a hobbeled Garnett is a extermly slow froncourt.

Davis will never be a better player than KG. Right now at this moment in time could he be a better fit for the team? The only way to find out would to start Davis and have Garnett be the sixth man. Doc doesnt have the jewels for this so we will never know.

Garnett is a faster defensive PF than Glen Davis even now.

Faster how?  not laterally. He has not been able to move side to side well since the original injury. My guess is he is probably 60% of what he did in 07/08.

Obviously Glen is hungry. Doc should give him a chance and see what happens. What would be the worse that could happen if he started Davis over KG?  KG feathers get ruffeled a bit. He would probably come in with more fire.

Laterally KG is still faster than Davis, heck even straight line they're probably around the same speed. Now Glen Davis adds more energy/hustle than KG has this year. But hustle doesn't allows produce for him because of his other limitations. Garnett is just as quick, add in his length, superior rebounding, and superior jump shooting/passing and I don't understand this notion that BBD should start.

I mean BBD had 6 great quarters in the playoffs, does that really mean we should break up the chemistry of the starting five?