Poll

Should the Celtics trade for AD?

Yes.  (Tatum in the deal)
22 (44.9%)
No.   (Not worth giving up assets for a one year rental)
19 (38.8%)
Yes but only if Tatum isn't in the deal.
8 (16.3%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: Anthony Davis traded to Lakers(page 272)  (Read 339565 times)

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Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2745 on: May 20, 2019, 03:36:18 PM »

RazzelnoDazzel

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One thing that I’ve realized is that we all said that Jrue was the PG for the Pels. It seems more like no one watches the Pels because Jrue hasn’t played PG for them in 2 seasons, Rondo and then Payton have been the Pels PG’s.  If you look up the Pels lineup it even list Jrue as the SG not the PG. I’m thinking more and more Rozier could be apart of the Pels trade for AD as Payton’s contract is also up this year and he’s looked at as a backup PG and Rozier is a starter. Just an observation.

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2746 on: May 20, 2019, 03:37:58 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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One thing that I’ve realized is that we all said that Jrue was the PG for the Pels. It seems more like no one watches the Pels because Jrue hasn’t played PG for them in 2 seasons, Rondo and then Payton have been the Pels PG’s.  If you look up the Pels lineup it even list Jrue as the SG not the PG. I’m thinking more and more Rozier could be apart of the Pels trade for AD as Payton’s contract is also up this year and he’s looked at as a backup PG and Rozier is a starter. Just an observation.
The problem with this is that the BYC rules make sign and trades with Rozier tricky, plus the Pelicans, Rozier, and Celtics all have to be in agreement for him to be a part of the deal. Its just very hard to pull off.

Rozier wanted 18 million after last off season, will the Pelicans want to give him more than 8 now? 10?

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2747 on: May 20, 2019, 03:47:00 PM »

RazzelnoDazzel

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One thing that I’ve realized is that we all said that Jrue was the PG for the Pels. It seems more like no one watches the Pels because Jrue hasn’t played PG for them in 2 seasons, Rondo and then Payton have been the Pels PG’s.  If you look up the Pels lineup it even list Jrue as the SG not the PG. I’m thinking more and more Rozier could be apart of the Pels trade for AD as Payton’s contract is also up this year and he’s looked at as a backup PG and Rozier is a starter. Just an observation.
The problem with this is that the BYC rules make sign and trades with Rozier tricky, plus the Pelicans, Rozier, and Celtics all have to be in agreement for him to be a part of the deal. Its just very hard to pull off.

Rozier wanted 18 million after last off season, will the Pelicans want to give him more than 8 now? 10?

Difficult? Maybe. The one thing Rozier wanted was a starting spot and this would allow him that opportunity. Other than the monies working out Rozier would have next to no reason for him to deny it unless he of course gets more money elsewhere or he wants to go to a particular team.

I think another thing in Rozier’s favor is that Payton has been battling injuries for years. The Pels May have to choose between Rozier, Tim Frazier, or Payton. Me personally idk if everyone would agree with me or not but I think Rozier has a much higher upside than them. As they will be looking to start him I think he will get somewhere between 12-18m Or they would have to pay Payton that money and I don’t think they do from what I’ve researched.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 04:03:05 PM by RazzelnoDazzel »

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2748 on: May 20, 2019, 04:50:41 PM »

Offline JBcat

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One thing that I’ve realized is that we all said that Jrue was the PG for the Pels. It seems more like no one watches the Pels because Jrue hasn’t played PG for them in 2 seasons, Rondo and then Payton have been the Pels PG’s.  If you look up the Pels lineup it even list Jrue as the SG not the PG. I’m thinking more and more Rozier could be apart of the Pels trade for AD as Payton’s contract is also up this year and he’s looked at as a backup PG and Rozier is a starter. Just an observation.
The problem with this is that the BYC rules make sign and trades with Rozier tricky, plus the Pelicans, Rozier, and Celtics all have to be in agreement for him to be a part of the deal. Its just very hard to pull off.

Rozier wanted 18 million after last off season, will the Pelicans want to give him more than 8 now? 10?

Difficult? Maybe. The one thing Rozier wanted was a starting spot and this would allow him that opportunity. Other than the monies working out Rozier would have next to no reason for him to deny it unless he of course gets more money elsewhere or he wants to go to a particular team.

I think another thing in Rozier’s favor is that Payton has been battling injuries for years. The Pels May have to choose between Rozier, Tim Frazier, or Payton. Me personally idk if everyone would agree with me or not but I think Rozier has a much higher upside than them. As they will be looking to start him I think he will get somewhere between 12-18m Or they would have to pay Payton that money and I don’t think they do from what I’ve researched.

One thing I thought about is I don’t believe there can be any negotiation for a S&T until July 1st.  So if we are drafting for the Pelicans during the draft the S&T portion of the deal with Rozier would be unknown until July 1st.  Makes it very dicey to include Rozier I would think, unless there is a wink wink agreement before the draft, but what if another team crashes the party late and offers a Rozier more money than the Pels.  I love the idea of including Rozier, but it seems very difficult to pull off.

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2749 on: May 20, 2019, 04:57:12 PM »

RazzelnoDazzel

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One thing that I’ve realized is that we all said that Jrue was the PG for the Pels. It seems more like no one watches the Pels because Jrue hasn’t played PG for them in 2 seasons, Rondo and then Payton have been the Pels PG’s.  If you look up the Pels lineup it even list Jrue as the SG not the PG. I’m thinking more and more Rozier could be apart of the Pels trade for AD as Payton’s contract is also up this year and he’s looked at as a backup PG and Rozier is a starter. Just an observation.
The problem with this is that the BYC rules make sign and trades with Rozier tricky, plus the Pelicans, Rozier, and Celtics all have to be in agreement for him to be a part of the deal. Its just very hard to pull off.

Rozier wanted 18 million after last off season, will the Pelicans want to give him more than 8 now? 10?

Difficult? Maybe. The one thing Rozier wanted was a starting spot and this would allow him that opportunity. Other than the monies working out Rozier would have next to no reason for him to deny it unless he of course gets more money elsewhere or he wants to go to a particular team.

I think another thing in Rozier’s favor is that Payton has been battling injuries for years. The Pels May have to choose between Rozier, Tim Frazier, or Payton. Me personally idk if everyone would agree with me or not but I think Rozier has a much higher upside than them. As they will be looking to start him I think he will get somewhere between 12-18m Or they would have to pay Payton that money and I don’t think they do from what I’ve researched.

One thing I thought about is I don’t believe there can be any negotiation for a S&T until July 1st.  So if we are drafting for the Pelicans during the draft the S&T portion of the deal with Rozier would be unknown until July 1st.  Makes it very dicey to include Rozier I would think, unless there is a wink wink agreement before the draft, but what if another team crashes the party late and offers a Rozier more money than the Pels.  I love the idea of including Rozier, but it seems very difficult to pull off.

I’m one of the very few who believes the Pels don’t want any of our drsft picks this year. I think they would want the Mem picks and a future pick from us. They have a ton of young players already and I don’t think they want to crowd Zion around a bunch of kids. Just my opinion. With that being said a wink wink deal is going to happen regardless if AD is coming here if they want any of the draft picks because a deal can’t be made until Kyrie opts out anyway. As long as the money is right I think everyone agrees to it early enough.

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2750 on: May 20, 2019, 05:11:42 PM »

Offline liam

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One thing that I’ve realized is that we all said that Jrue was the PG for the Pels. It seems more like no one watches the Pels because Jrue hasn’t played PG for them in 2 seasons, Rondo and then Payton have been the Pels PG’s.  If you look up the Pels lineup it even list Jrue as the SG not the PG. I’m thinking more and more Rozier could be apart of the Pels trade for AD as Payton’s contract is also up this year and he’s looked at as a backup PG and Rozier is a starter. Just an observation.
The problem with this is that the BYC rules make sign and trades with Rozier tricky, plus the Pelicans, Rozier, and Celtics all have to be in agreement for him to be a part of the deal. Its just very hard to pull off.

Rozier wanted 18 million after last off season, will the Pelicans want to give him more than 8 now? 10?

Difficult? Maybe. The one thing Rozier wanted was a starting spot and this would allow him that opportunity. Other than the monies working out Rozier would have next to no reason for him to deny it unless he of course gets more money elsewhere or he wants to go to a particular team.

I think another thing in Rozier’s favor is that Payton has been battling injuries for years. The Pels May have to choose between Rozier, Tim Frazier, or Payton. Me personally idk if everyone would agree with me or not but I think Rozier has a much higher upside than them. As they will be looking to start him I think he will get somewhere between 12-18m Or they would have to pay Payton that money and I don’t think they do from what I’ve researched.

One thing I thought about is I don’t believe there can be any negotiation for a S&T until July 1st.  So if we are drafting for the Pelicans during the draft the S&T portion of the deal with Rozier would be unknown until July 1st.  Makes it very dicey to include Rozier I would think, unless there is a wink wink agreement before the draft, but what if another team crashes the party late and offers a Rozier more money than the Pels.  I love the idea of including Rozier, but it seems very difficult to pull off.

The 14th pick could be desirable if they they have someone in that range they covet. The 20s picks probably less so.

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2751 on: May 20, 2019, 05:12:51 PM »

Offline JBcat

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One thing that I’ve realized is that we all said that Jrue was the PG for the Pels. It seems more like no one watches the Pels because Jrue hasn’t played PG for them in 2 seasons, Rondo and then Payton have been the Pels PG’s.  If you look up the Pels lineup it even list Jrue as the SG not the PG. I’m thinking more and more Rozier could be apart of the Pels trade for AD as Payton’s contract is also up this year and he’s looked at as a backup PG and Rozier is a starter. Just an observation.
The problem with this is that the BYC rules make sign and trades with Rozier tricky, plus the Pelicans, Rozier, and Celtics all have to be in agreement for him to be a part of the deal. Its just very hard to pull off.

Rozier wanted 18 million after last off season, will the Pelicans want to give him more than 8 now? 10?

Difficult? Maybe. The one thing Rozier wanted was a starting spot and this would allow him that opportunity. Other than the monies working out Rozier would have next to no reason for him to deny it unless he of course gets more money elsewhere or he wants to go to a particular team.

I think another thing in Rozier’s favor is that Payton has been battling injuries for years. The Pels May have to choose between Rozier, Tim Frazier, or Payton. Me personally idk if everyone would agree with me or not but I think Rozier has a much higher upside than them. As they will be looking to start him I think he will get somewhere between 12-18m Or they would have to pay Payton that money and I don’t think they do from what I’ve researched.

One thing I thought about is I don’t believe there can be any negotiation for a S&T until July 1st.  So if we are drafting for the Pelicans during the draft the S&T portion of the deal with Rozier would be unknown until July 1st.  Makes it very dicey to include Rozier I would think, unless there is a wink wink agreement before the draft, but what if another team crashes the party late and offers a Rozier more money than the Pels.  I love the idea of including Rozier, but it seems very difficult to pull off.

I’m one of the very few who believes the Pels don’t want any of our drsft picks this year. I think they would want the Mem picks and a future pick from us. They have a ton of young players already and I don’t think they want to crowd Zion around a bunch of kids. Just my opinion. With that being said a wink wink deal is going to happen regardless if AD is coming here if they want any of the draft picks because a deal can’t be made until Kyrie opts out anyway. As long as the money is right I think everyone agrees to it early enough.

That would be something if we didn’t include our picks but maybe we could pull it off.   The prize in Tatum, S&T of Rozier, Williams (Capella upside), probably need more salary filler maybe Yabu, Grizzlies pick destined to be somewhere in the lottery, and throw in a future pick of ours.  If the Rozier part doesn’t work out could always use Smart in the deal sadly.   Might be able to find good value with our 14th pick like Nasir Little.

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2752 on: May 20, 2019, 05:24:08 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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We have gone over the way a sign and trade would go down with Rozier many, many, many times on this blog. It's extremely difficult to make the numbers work and would probably mean making the trade a whole lot larger. Rozier isn't going to be included in this deal like some think by just putting Rozier in for Smart. The money doesn't work that way.

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2753 on: May 20, 2019, 05:28:53 PM »

Online BitterJim

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We have gone over the way a sign and trade would go down with Rozier many, many, many times on this blog. It's extremely difficult to make the numbers work and would probably mean making the trade a whole lot larger. Rozier isn't going to be included in this deal like some think by just putting Rozier in for Smart. The money doesn't work that way.

The only way I could see him being involved is by sending him to a third team that could have signed him outright (so they absorb him into cap space). We would have to make it worth that team's while, though, which would probably mean tossing then a second rounder

It seems almost as far-fetched as sign and trading him to the Pelicans
I'm bitter.

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2754 on: May 20, 2019, 05:29:13 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Guys, I think it's best just to pretend that sign and trades aren't a real thing because they just don't happen very often.

I would guess that the vast majority of the most fantastical, unlikely trade ideas involve sign and trades.


I know the Chris Paul trade happened.  I know sign and trades do occur.  But if you just remove it from your thought process you're going to end up with a much clearer and more realistic picture of the options that the team has.


Chances are Rozier is going to leave with no compensation going back to the Celts.  If he doesn't that means the market for him is terrible and he ends up re-signing with the Celts on a deal that is either super team friendly or a single year at low $$.

Given how badly he performed on and off the court last year I think the Celts would be crazy to bring him back on a low money one year deal. 
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2755 on: May 20, 2019, 05:34:48 PM »

Online RJ87

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Chances are Rozier is going to leave with no compensation going back to the Celts.  If he doesn't that means the market for him is terrible and he ends up re-signing with the Celts on a deal that is either super team friendly or a single year at low $$.

Given how badly he performed on and off the court last year I think the Celts would be crazy to bring him back on a low money one year deal.

You also have to wonder what his mindset would be coming into the season. Would he be upset that he didn't get a contract worth whatever he believes to be his value?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 05:42:26 PM by RJ87 »
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Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2756 on: May 20, 2019, 06:12:39 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Just my opinion ...

What I envision is, by draft week ... 

Griffin will wait or give AD a deadline  to see what he wants to do.   If he is still adamant that he wants to be traded.  Then Griffin will explore the best deal available to him on draft day

So the point is, Celts can't buy more time to see what Irving may do (July 1st).... draft day is most likely the hard deadline Pelicans will place

End of the day, Danny is unlikely to give up a ton for Davis blindly.  With no certainty Irving will resign,  no certainty Davis will resign after 2019-2020   

 

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2757 on: May 20, 2019, 07:00:51 PM »

Offline JBcat

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We have gone over the way a sign and trade would go down with Rozier many, many, many times on this blog. It's extremely difficult to make the numbers work and would probably mean making the trade a whole lot larger. Rozier isn't going to be included in this deal like some think by just putting Rozier in for Smart. The money doesn't work that way.

I don’t think so.  There is a thread started by Roy in February labeled “Cap Gurus: Is this the Way to S&T Rozier for AD?” where both you and Roy went back and forth on S&T ideas without putting doom and gloom on it.  You liked the idea, but had your doubts thinking the Pels would much prefer Smart or Brown. The only reason I remember is because I had posts in that thread. Ha. It’s less likely sure, but not impossible and with someone like Mike Zarren on our side I feel more confident on working on the edges of the rules for trades. 

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2758 on: May 20, 2019, 07:32:14 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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We have gone over the way a sign and trade would go down with Rozier many, many, many times on this blog. It's extremely difficult to make the numbers work and would probably mean making the trade a whole lot larger. Rozier isn't going to be included in this deal like some think by just putting Rozier in for Smart. The money doesn't work that way.

Yes, but that was when we all thought that Rozier would get a big payday (like 15+ a year). I think it's not unrealistic to think that his offers will not be higher than 8-12 million range. In a sign-and-trade that means that the difference between incoming and outgoing salary is only 4 to 6 million (50% of salary counts as outgoing, 100% counts as incoming), which is workable (I've done the math).

Example (trading for Anthony Davis alone):

Jayson Tatum (7,83) + Robert Williams (1,94) + Guerschon Yabusele (3,12) + #14 pick (~ 2,58) + #20 pick (~ 1,93) + future Memphis pick + Rozier (sign and trade)
 
That means total outgoing salary (excluding Rozier) = 17,39 million

We don't know whether Davis would waive his trade kicker to play for the Celtics, so there are two possibilities (A and B).

A: minimum outgoing salary Celtics (Davis waives trade kicker): 27,09 / 1,25 = 21,67 million
A: maximum incoming salary Pelicans (Davis waives trade kicker): 27,09 * 1,25 = 33,87 million

B: minimum outgoing salary Celtics (Davis doesn't waive 15% trade kicker): 31,16 / 1,25 = 24,93 million
B: maximum incoming salary Pelicans (Unaffected by trade kicker): 27,09 * 1,25 = 33,87 million

In A, Terry Rozier can sign for 8,6 - 16,4 million a year (reasonable).
In B, Terry Rozier can sign for between 15,1 - 16,4 million a year, but if you'd include the #22 pick (~ 1,78) as well that would lower it to 11,5 - 14,6.

So moneywise it's possible to make such a deal (unless I made a mistake), but I agree it would be very hard to persuade Rozier's agent and the Pelicans to go along with such a construction. However I hope that the FO works very hard to accomplish it, since we can afford to lose Rozier but not Smart!
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 03:57:55 PM by RodyTur10 »

Re: Anthony Davis trade thread(Davis trade request page 33)
« Reply #2759 on: May 20, 2019, 07:51:46 PM »

Offline Irish Stew

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We have gone over the way a sign and trade would go down with Rozier many, many, many times on this blog. It's extremely difficult to make the numbers work and would probably mean making the trade a whole lot larger. Rozier isn't going to be included in this deal like some think by just putting Rozier in for Smart. The money doesn't work that way.

Yes, but that was when we all thought that Rozier would get a big payday (like 15+ a year). I think it's not unrealistic to think that his offers will not be higher than 8-12 million range. In a sign-and-trade that means that the difference between incoming and outgoing salary is only 4 to 6 million (50% of salary counts as outgoing, 100% counts as incoming), which is workable (I've done the math).

Example (trading for Anthony Davis alone):

Jayson Tatum (7,83) + Robert Williams (1,94) + Guerschon Yabusele (3,12) + #14 pick (~ 2,58) + #20 pick (~ 1,93) + future Memphis pick + Rozier (sign and trade)
 
That means total outgoing salary (excluding Rozier) = 17,39 million

We don't know whether Davis would waive his trade kicker to play for the Celtics, so there are two possibilities (A and B).

A: minimum outgoing salary Celtics (Davis waives trade kicker): 27,09 / 1,25 = 21,67 million
A: maximum incoming salary Pelicans (Davis waives trade kicker): 27,09 * 1,25 = 33,87 million

B: minimum outgoing salary Celtics (Davis doesn't waive 15% trade kicker): 31,16 / 1,25 = 24,93 million
B: maximum incoming salary Pelicans (Davis doesn't waive 15% trade kicker): 31,16 * 1,25 = 38,95 million

In A, Terry Rozier can sign for 8,6 - 16,4 million a year (reasonable).
In B, Terry Rozier can sign for between 15,1 - 21,5 million a year, but if you'd include the #22 pick (~ 1,78) as well that would lower it to 11,5 - 19,7.

So moneywise it's possible to make such a deal (unless I made a mistake), but I agree it would be very hard to persuade Rozier's agent and the Pelicans to go along with such a construction. However I hope that the FO works very hard to accomplish it, since we can afford to lose Rozier but not Smart!

Love the clear cap explanation but my only question is whether Terry would be happy as Holiday's backup. I have my doubts. TP.