Anthony Davis traded to Lakers(page 272)

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Just don't get where any team would take on Hayward at this point. He isn't an expiring contract. He is owed $67 million over two years and if recent play is any indicator, the team trading for him has to figure he is no better than a very inconsistent bench role player.

That means he has major net negative value. No team is taking him on without the Celtics also sending a major draft asset to do it.

Also, Silky, why do you add the most unlikely trade, a sign and trade, into every trade proposal? The sign and trade is a dinosaur of a trade. It is not going to happen for max level players unless that player is trying to get to a team that can't otherwise sign him. You need to accept that GMs, players and agents in the NBA look at sign and trades as an absolute last resort to get a player somewhere, not as a 1st option. There is just very little incentive for players or teams to agree to do them.

Well I just don’t agree with that completely. Hayward now has an entire offseason to just work on his game and not worry much about his injury, so he’s expected to come back better. Teams who could use a High IQ scorer could take a “flier” on him. (Houston, OKC,Cavs) There are also teams who just need any glimpse of a star and who can compete with a solo star they already have. (Pacers,Miami,Cav) then there is a team who has just about everything they need but a veteran scorer and they would also be BETTING on Hayward to come to All-Star form (Mavericks, Suns) Lastly there is the team who sees Gordon as a fan favorite and value you him higher than most teams because every time they see Gordon he’s getting Buckets!, plus they have a big long term contract on their hands. (Timberwolves)

I don’t see Hayward as chopped liver like many people do. Nor do I have such a low value on Rozier.

[Silky]

Just don't get where any team would take on Hayward at this point. He isn't an expiring contract. He is owed $67 million over two years and if recent play is any indicator, the team trading for him has to figure he is no better than a very inconsistent bench role player.

That means he has major net negative value. No team is taking him on without the Celtics also sending a major draft asset to do it.

Also, Silky, why do you add the most unlikely trade, a sign and trade, into every trade proposal? The sign and trade is a dinosaur of a trade. It is not going to happen for max level players unless that player is trying to get to a team that can't otherwise sign him. You need to accept that GMs, players and agents in the NBA look at sign and trades as an absolute last resort to get a player somewhere, not as a 1st option. There is just very little incentive for players or teams to agree to do them.

well you and I disagree on these 2 matters.

I think Gordon has solid value around the league, with him needing a year and playing with Kyrie and a LOADED wing grouping really effected his production.

And a team like Brooklyn would look to sign and trade for Kyrie because it allows them a secondary max player.

I mean, perhaps brooklyn and Irving would rather have Allen Crabbe and the 17th pick as opposed to a shot at Durant. But I would not want that.

And saving 14 mill in salary in a sign and trade allows for them to sign Durant to a max. otherwise with 55 mill in Guaranteed salaries, adding Kyrie at 32 million would bring them to 87 million....not enough to add another star player.

[GreenlyGreeny]

By helping the bottom feeders of the West, giving the Mavericks their third big piece to get back into contention, we clear out as much of the books as possible while retaining Smart and obtaining Davis (trade block too large to share so try it yourself on https://tradenba.com/teams):

To Celtics: Davis

To Suns: Rozier S&T + Hardaway Jr. + 14 + 20 + 22

To Mavericks: Hayward + Tyler Johnson

To Pelicans: Tatum + Brown + Baynes + Williams + Ojeleye + Yabusele + 6

That leaves us with Smart, Davis, options for Theis and Wannamaker, and opt-outs from Horford and Kyrie. From here, is there really no way Horford, Irving and Durant can find a way to make the math and timing work, and in exchange the Warriors get a first-round pick and ensure KD is out of the West? There has got to be a way!

[nickagneta]

Any trades that include Anthony Davis coming to the Celtics will be merged into this thread. I don't care how different or complex it is, if it is a trade sending Davis to Boston, it belongs here, not in a new thread.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

By helping the bottom feeders of the West, giving the Mavericks their third big piece to get back into contention, we clear out as much of the books as possible while retaining Smart and obtaining Davis (trade block too large to share so try it yourself on https://tradenba.com/teams):

To Celtics: Davis

To Suns: Rozier S&T + Hardaway Jr. + 14 + 20 + 22

To Mavericks: Hayward + Tyler Johnson

To Pelicans: Tatum + Brown + Baynes + Williams + Ojeleye + Yabusele + 6

That leaves us with Smart, Davis, options for Theis and Wannamaker, and opt-outs from Horford and Kyrie. From here, is there really no way Horford, Irving and Durant can find a way to make the math and timing work, and in exchange the Warriors get a first-round pick and ensure KD is out of the West? There has got to be a way!

Possibly, but doubtful. The Mavs can draft a Max free agent and they undoubtedly will. Wether it’s Kemba, Tobias Harris, Butler, or whomever, they will use that cap space for players who they know can contribute right now as they are looking to hit the playoffs. Now if they strikeout on everyone then maybe Gordon would be a last resort, but doubtful.

Now you cannot have Smart, Davis, Kyrie, Horford, and KD on this team.

[Ogaju]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

I do agree, but I’m keeping an eye on Timberwolves. DA may be able to shake towns loose as he may be cheaper than AD. This will be the offseason I’ll get to see how good Ainge really is.

[RJ87]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

I do agree, but I’m keeping an eye on Timberwolves. DA may be able to shake towns loose as he may be cheaper than AD. This will be the offseason I’ll get to see how good Ainge really is.

Why would KAT be cheaper? He signed a 5 year extension that hasn't even kicked in yet. Why would the Wolves trade a player that they have under contract for 5 more years? I'm genuinely curious as to the reasoning here.

[BitterJim]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

So why didn't the Cavs do that? We had way more assets than IT/Crowder/Zizic/Nets pick

If a team wants to overplay their hands and try to get 2x from us what they could get from another team, they'll probably just be shooting themselves in the foot

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

I do agree, but I’m keeping an eye on Timberwolves. DA may be able to shake towns loose as he may be cheaper than AD. This will be the offseason I’ll get to see how good Ainge really is.

Why would KAT be cheaper? He signed a 5 year extension that hasn't even kicked in yet. Why would the Wolves trade a player that they have under contract for 5 more years? I'm genuinely curious as to the reasoning here.

Cheaper as far as what assets need to go out. I say this because yes they gave him A 5 year Max with Wiggins and that duo isn’t panning out. With that being said, if Towns ask for a trade for being unhappy with a team who has only made it to the Playoffs once they could be looking to semi tear it down and restart knowing that Towns wants to be moved.

With that being said a potential star in Tatum comes into play. Also a contract like Hayward’s becomes valuable to them as they can ride themselves of Wiggins and Teague. Hayward’s contract would be no use to NO but it will be of use here.

Timberwolves
_______________
Rozier
Hayward
Tatum
Saric
Williams 3
________________
They will also have 1st round picks #7 (Reddish) + #14(BoL Bol)annnnd cap space going forward.

Unlike their failed attempt to build around towns, they will have another shot at building around Tatum, and Rozier(who is a starting PG IN THIS LEAGUE) with cap space and picks....

In summary, the Timberwolves can fix their cap issues and replace Towns with another rising star as well as give that star some better players to play with all by trading him. Nooot to mention Hayward is a fan favorite out there as his only huge games were against them, and their fans hate Wiggins (all comments I’ve seen)

[RJ87]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

I do agree, but I’m keeping an eye on Timberwolves. DA may be able to shake towns loose as he may be cheaper than AD. This will be the offseason I’ll get to see how good Ainge really is.

Why would KAT be cheaper? He signed a 5 year extension that hasn't even kicked in yet. Why would the Wolves trade a player that they have under contract for 5 more years? I'm genuinely curious as to the reasoning here.

Cheaper as far as what assets need to go out. I say this because yes they gave him A 5 year Max with Wiggins and that duo isn’t panning out. With that being said, if Towns ask for a trade for being unhappy with a team who has only made it to the Playoffs once they could be looking to semi tear it down and restart knowing that Towns wants to be moved.

With that being said a potential star in Tatum comes into play. Also a contract like Hayward’s becomes valuable to them as they can ride themselves of Wiggins and Teague. Hayward’s contract would be no use to NO but it will be of use here.

Timberwolves
_______________
Rozier
Hayward
Tatum
Saric
Williams 3
________________
They will also have 1st round picks #7 (Reddish) + #14(BoL Bol)annnnd cap space going forward.

Unlike their failed attempt to build around towns, they will have another shot at building around Tatum, and Rozier(who is a starting PG IN THIS LEAGUE) with cap space and picks....

In summary, the Timberwolves can fix their cap issues and replace Towns with another rising star as well as give that star some better players to play with all by trading him. Nooot to mention Hayward is a fan favorite out there as his only huge games were against them, and their fans hate Wiggins (all comments I’ve seen)

So you think a player who's under contract would be cheaper than one who isn't?

And also, wouldn't a far more logical option be to trade Wiggins? I mean, even if KAT requests a trade, he has zero leverage. Minny has 4 years before he does.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

I do agree, but I’m keeping an eye on Timberwolves. DA may be able to shake towns loose as he may be cheaper than AD. This will be the offseason I’ll get to see how good Ainge really is.

Why would KAT be cheaper? He signed a 5 year extension that hasn't even kicked in yet. Why would the Wolves trade a player that they have under contract for 5 more years? I'm genuinely curious as to the reasoning here.

Cheaper as far as what assets need to go out. I say this because yes they gave him A 5 year Max with Wiggins and that duo isn’t panning out. With that being said, if Towns ask for a trade for being unhappy with a team who has only made it to the Playoffs once they could be looking to semi tear it down and restart knowing that Towns wants to be moved.

With that being said a potential star in Tatum comes into play. Also a contract like Hayward’s becomes valuable to them as they can ride themselves of Wiggins and Teague. Hayward’s contract would be no use to NO but it will be of use here.

Timberwolves
_______________
Rozier
Hayward
Tatum
Saric
Williams 3
________________
They will also have 1st round picks #7 (Reddish) + #14(BoL Bol)annnnd cap space going forward.

Unlike their failed attempt to build around towns, they will have another shot at building around Tatum, and Rozier(who is a starting PG IN THIS LEAGUE) with cap space and picks....

In summary, the Timberwolves can fix their cap issues and replace Towns with another rising star as well as give that star some better players to play with all by trading him. Nooot to mention Hayward is a fan favorite out there as his only huge games were against them, and their fans hate Wiggins (all comments I’ve seen)

So you think a player who's under contract would be cheaper than one who isn't?

And also, wouldn't a far more logical option be to trade Wiggins?

Yes trading Wiggins absolutely would. But like Hayward, people believe Wiggins has an unmovable contract (5 years 147M). In order to move such contract you would have to trade an asset (1st rounder or young player) as they are trying to build around Towns then forking over assets isn’t quite helping their case. Their team as constructed even after ridding Wiggins of his contract will still leave them with a tram of mediocrity as it still will not have cap space, and no young potential players.

Not sure if you know how much Wiggins has underperformed, but his PER is 11 as a starter on a team that’s built around him and Towns. There isn’t much reasoning for this as he isn’t dealing with any big injuries, he gets all the mins he wants, has a decent usage rate, and even Butler was shipped out.

Hayward whom has many of those outlining issues would all but be eliminated with this move.

[RJ87]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

I do agree, but I’m keeping an eye on Timberwolves. DA may be able to shake towns loose as he may be cheaper than AD. This will be the offseason I’ll get to see how good Ainge really is.

Why would KAT be cheaper? He signed a 5 year extension that hasn't even kicked in yet. Why would the Wolves trade a player that they have under contract for 5 more years? I'm genuinely curious as to the reasoning here.

Cheaper as far as what assets need to go out. I say this because yes they gave him A 5 year Max with Wiggins and that duo isn’t panning out. With that being said, if Towns ask for a trade for being unhappy with a team who has only made it to the Playoffs once they could be looking to semi tear it down and restart knowing that Towns wants to be moved.

With that being said a potential star in Tatum comes into play. Also a contract like Hayward’s becomes valuable to them as they can ride themselves of Wiggins and Teague. Hayward’s contract would be no use to NO but it will be of use here.

Timberwolves
_______________
Rozier
Hayward
Tatum
Saric
Williams 3
________________
They will also have 1st round picks #7 (Reddish) + #14(BoL Bol)annnnd cap space going forward.

Unlike their failed attempt to build around towns, they will have another shot at building around Tatum, and Rozier(who is a starting PG IN THIS LEAGUE) with cap space and picks....

In summary, the Timberwolves can fix their cap issues and replace Towns with another rising star as well as give that star some better players to play with all by trading him. Nooot to mention Hayward is a fan favorite out there as his only huge games were against them, and their fans hate Wiggins (all comments I’ve seen)

So you think a player who's under contract would be cheaper than one who isn't?

And also, wouldn't a far more logical option be to trade Wiggins?

Yes trading Wiggins absolutely would. But like Hayward, people believe Wiggins has an unmovable contract (5 years 147M). In order to move such contract you would have to trade an asset (1st rounder or young player) as they are trying to build around Towns then forking over assets isn’t quite helping their case. Their team as constructed even after ridding Wiggins of his contract will still leave them with a tram of mediocrity as it still will not have cap space, and no young potential players.

So lets look at the path Minny could take:

Keep both and see what happens.

Attach an asset to a Wiggins trade, but get more flexibility to put pieces around KAT.

Trade KAT - your best young talent since KG who is under contract for the foreseeable future - and get assets to put around a guy you've already deemed a lesser talent in Wiggins.

[RazzelnoDazzel]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

I do agree, but I’m keeping an eye on Timberwolves. DA may be able to shake towns loose as he may be cheaper than AD. This will be the offseason I’ll get to see how good Ainge really is.

Why would KAT be cheaper? He signed a 5 year extension that hasn't even kicked in yet. Why would the Wolves trade a player that they have under contract for 5 more years? I'm genuinely curious as to the reasoning here.

Cheaper as far as what assets need to go out. I say this because yes they gave him A 5 year Max with Wiggins and that duo isn’t panning out. With that being said, if Towns ask for a trade for being unhappy with a team who has only made it to the Playoffs once they could be looking to semi tear it down and restart knowing that Towns wants to be moved.

With that being said a potential star in Tatum comes into play. Also a contract like Hayward’s becomes valuable to them as they can ride themselves of Wiggins and Teague. Hayward’s contract would be no use to NO but it will be of use here.

Timberwolves
_______________
Rozier
Hayward
Tatum
Saric
Williams 3
________________
They will also have 1st round picks #7 (Reddish) + #14(BoL Bol)annnnd cap space going forward.

Unlike their failed attempt to build around towns, they will have another shot at building around Tatum, and Rozier(who is a starting PG IN THIS LEAGUE) with cap space and picks....

In summary, the Timberwolves can fix their cap issues and replace Towns with another rising star as well as give that star some better players to play with all by trading him. Nooot to mention Hayward is a fan favorite out there as his only huge games were against them, and their fans hate Wiggins (all comments I’ve seen)

So you think a player who's under contract would be cheaper than one who isn't?

And also, wouldn't a far more logical option be to trade Wiggins?

Yes trading Wiggins absolutely would. But like Hayward, people believe Wiggins has an unmovable contract (5 years 147M). In order to move such contract you would have to trade an asset (1st rounder or young player) as they are trying to build around Towns then forking over assets isn’t quite helping their case. Their team as constructed even after ridding Wiggins of his contract will still leave them with a tram of mediocrity as it still will not have cap space, and no young potential players.

So lets look at the path Minny could take:

Keep both and see what happens Correct

Attach an asset to a Wiggins trade, but get more flexibility to put pieces around KAT. As they are and will still be above the cap, what flexibility are you referring to?

Trade KAT - your best young talent since KG who is under contract for the foreseeable future - and get assets to put around a guy you've already deemed a lesser talent in Wiggins. I not deemed anyone to be a lesser talent than Wiggins. Either way every option is cheaper than Wiggins.

But yes before I had to breakdown everything I clearly said I’d “keep and eye” out. You asked for the reasoning of why they would trade towns and I’ve provided that reasoning. You even highlighted trading Towns was a “path” they could take and I only expanded the Theory of said path. It’s clear you would choose option A or B if it were your team and that’s cool. Now I’m asking you questions about the Paths you would rather choose.

[Birdman]

When can teams trade? Heard different dates