CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rondofan1255 on July 19, 2018, 02:01:27 PM
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Restricted free agent Marcus Smart has agreed to a four-year, $52M deal to return to the Boston Celtics, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1019950309005766656
Smart's annual money on the 4-year, $52 million deal...
2018-19: $11,660,716
2019-20: $12,553,572
2020-21: $13,446,428
2021-22: $14,339,285
Salaries include a $500K likely bonus for body fat weigh in, per sources.
https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1020000716440653825
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It's fine.
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It's a comparable percentage of the cap that Bradley got in 2014 before the spike. In fact, it's slightly less.
With the cap going up the next few years, it seems likely this will be a good contract going forward. It's definitely not an albatross.
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It's a comparable percentage of the cap that Bradley got in 2014 before the spike. In fact, it's slightly less.
With the cap going up the next few years, it seems likely this will be a good contract going forward. It's definitely not an albatross.
Yeah, this contract is going to look like a great deal for Ainge and the Celtics down the road.
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It's a comparable percentage of the cap that Bradley got in 2014 before the spike. In fact, it's slightly less.
With the cap going up the next few years, it seems likely this will be a good contract going forward. It's definitely not an albatross.
Yep, came here to say the same thing, but you beat me to it. This contract has more upside than downside.
Also, since the Celtics are now a tax team, or will wind up close to one if moves are made, I think it makes more sense to view contracts as a percentage of the tax than the cap, because that’s really the constraint the team is working with most years. The Celtics will be giving Smart, likely their 4th-6th man in minutes, a little under 9.5% of the tax every year. That doesn’t seem like a misallocation of resources.
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I'm fine with it.
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I wholeheartedly see the value in Marcus Smart.
You wouldn't want a team full of him, but every team needs a junkyard dog type of player that just will not give in. It builds a certain type of character on a team.
IMO the signing was fine.
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If there are a lot of clauses to reach that number then it's good.
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Neither. I feel it is a fair contract for all parties. Marcus gets security of being set for life. The Celtics get the identity of their team secured for 4 years. Plus he's a great contract for a trade down the road as well if a superstar becomes available at a time 3-4 years from now to match salary. Great win for everyone.
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Would have preferred 10-12 mil but an extra 4 isn't going to make me say this is an overpay..
If he can somehow fix his shot this deal will end up being a steal, but those are high hopes.
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Its basically the extension the C's offered him before the season began, so it feels like an okay deal for both sides.
Roberson is getting 10 million per year on his deal is the contract that comes to my mind. If Marcus doesn't improve somewhat its not a steal, but he's still young enough that the upside is high and even his current level of production is fine value.
If the C's weren't done with Cap Space for the foreseeable future I might think its too much given opportunity cost, but they've signed their FAs with Horford/Hayward its all trades from here on out.
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I think it's a slight overpay. However, in the grand scheme of things, it's reasonable based on his value to the team.
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It's market rate right now or maybe a slight overpay. It was either that or lose him next summer. This is probably the way Ainge saw it working out
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I think this is pretty nice value for him, especially with the cap going up. I think Smart got unlucky that he hit free agency in the tightest market and would have gotten a bigger offer next offseason.
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i too am fine with it. i expect in 2 years this board will look back and think it is a good deal at below market price. that is, i think this will run similar to bradley's contract in terms of the market.
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A good contract for the Celtics, certainly not an overpay.
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i too am fine with it. i expect in 2 years this board will look back and think it is a good deal at below market price. that is, i think this will run similar to bradley's contract in terms of the market.
People keep saying this, but AB became a top 3 player on the Cs team that went to the ECF (top 2 before Al came here). Marcus is a wonderful role player and may very well be ‘worth’ this contract, but he is like the 6th-7th best player on this team and almost everybody ahead of him is either on a max contract or is due one.
Here’s to hoping he is able to find at least one way to score the basketball consistently and make other strides in his development. Here’s to not hoping we lose other core players because of slightly overpaying for him.
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i too am fine with it. i expect in 2 years this board will look back and think it is a good deal at below market price. that is, i think this will run similar to bradley's contract in terms of the market.
People keep saying this, but AB became a top 3 player on the Cs team that went to the ECF (top 2 before Al came here). Marcus is a wonderful role player and may very well be ‘worth’ this contract, but he is like the 6th-7th best player on this team and almost everybody ahead of him is either on a max contract or is due one.
Here’s to hoping he is able to find at least one way to score the basketball consistently and make other strides in his development. Here’s to not hoping we lose other core players because of slightly overpaying for him.
I don't think this is a fair comparison. If AB joined the current roster he would not crack the top 5 either.
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i too am fine with it. i expect in 2 years this board will look back and think it is a good deal at below market price. that is, i think this will run similar to bradley's contract in terms of the market.
People keep saying this, but AB became a top 3 player on the Cs team that went to the ECF (top 2 before Al came here). Marcus is a wonderful role player and may very well be ‘worth’ this contract, but he is like the 6th-7th best player on this team and almost everybody ahead of him is either on a max contract or is due one.
Here’s to hoping he is able to find at least one way to score the basketball consistently and make other strides in his development. Here’s to not hoping we lose other core players because of slightly overpaying for him.
I think it speaks to how weak our team was before Al vs how strong we are now.
If Smart is your 7th best player, you have a great team.
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i too am fine with it. i expect in 2 years this board will look back and think it is a good deal at below market price. that is, i think this will run similar to bradley's contract in terms of the market.
People keep saying this, but AB became a top 3 player on the Cs team that went to the ECF (top 2 before Al came here). Marcus is a wonderful role player and may very well be ‘worth’ this contract, but he is like the 6th-7th best player on this team and almost everybody ahead of him is either on a max contract or is due one.
Here’s to hoping he is able to find at least one way to score the basketball consistently and make other strides in his development. Here’s to not hoping we lose other core players because of slightly overpaying for him.
I don't think this is a fair comparison. If AB joined the current roster he would not crack the top 5 either.
Yea 100% this. I am not sure what our team being weaker before than it is now has to do with Smart's worth. Right now you would have to go (perhaps not in this exact order)
1) Irving
2) Hayward
3) Tatum
4) Horford
5) Brown
6) Bradley or Rozier
Is/Was Bradley better than Rozier right now? Did Bradley ever have as good a playoff run as Rozier had last playoffs (I honestly don't know)
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i too am fine with it. i expect in 2 years this board will look back and think it is a good deal at below market price. that is, i think this will run similar to bradley's contract in terms of the market.
People keep saying this, but AB became a top 3 player on the Cs team that went to the ECF (top 2 before Al came here). Marcus is a wonderful role player and may very well be ‘worth’ this contract, but he is like the 6th-7th best player on this team and almost everybody ahead of him is either on a max contract or is due one.
Here’s to hoping he is able to find at least one way to score the basketball consistently and make other strides in his development. Here’s to not hoping we lose other core players because of slightly overpaying for him.
Yes, but Tatum isn’t due his new contract until Smart has only one year left on his deal, and there are still two years for Brown. Maybe year 4 will be a little tricky or require someone, including Smart, to be moved, but an expiring $14 million contract in a year with the cap approaching $120 million and the tax exceeding $140 million isn’t going to be a lodestone.
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I agree with all of the above about the value with AB and Smart, but that speaks to my point. Several years back we had nobody else to give the money to, so why not AB? Now we have a lot of players currently on or coming up for massive deals so we need to prioritize. Smart’s mid-size contract won’t be helpful when dealing with the tax. It is all about max-level players and rookie/vet min contracts at this point.
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It feels weird to say Smart is no Bradley when Bradley only got a 14 million guaranteed this off-season. (2 years 25 million second year partial guarantee)
And he was an unrestricted FA. I guess if you think Bradley is better then this is definitely an overpay.
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It's a slight overpay.
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I agree with all of the above about the value with AB and Smart, but that speaks to my point. Several years back we had nobody else to give the money to, so why not AB? Now we have a lot of players currently on or coming up for massive deals so we need to prioritize. Smart’s mid-size contract won’t be helpful when dealing with the tax. It is all about max-level players and rookie/vet min contracts at this point.
If you're unwilling to pay the tax for a medium size contract on a contender sure.
I'm hopeful that the C's ownership isn't going to attempt to run the franchise like Denver has.
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I definitely wanted him back but was hoping it would be in the 4yr/$44-46M range, but it’s the same AAV that Exum got, no?
Not too worried about the tax, just glad it’s done.
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i too am fine with it. i expect in 2 years this board will look back and think it is a good deal at below market price. that is, i think this will run similar to bradley's contract in terms of the market.
People keep saying this, but AB became a top 3 player on the Cs team that went to the ECF (top 2 before Al came here). Marcus is a wonderful role player and may very well be ‘worth’ this contract, but he is like the 6th-7th best player on this team and almost everybody ahead of him is either on a max contract or is due one.
Here’s to hoping he is able to find at least one way to score the basketball consistently and make other strides in his development. Here’s to not hoping we lose other core players because of slightly overpaying for him.
Yes, but Tatum isn’t due his new contract until Smart has only one year left on his deal, and there are still two years for Brown. Maybe year 4 will be a little tricky or require someone, including Smart, to be moved, but an expiring $14 million contract in a year with the cap approaching $120 million and the tax exceeding $140 million isn’t going to be a lodestone.
Also worth mentioning Horford will be off his contract after next season and I would be a bit surprised if he was back here for anything more than half his current contract. Honestly I think Horford would be thrilled with a 3 year 36 at age 34. If not, we would have someone cheaper there.
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Marcus’ agent did really well, but it’s good to have Smart back.
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Good Contract for Marcus, The C's....and for future Salary matching trades.
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Also worth mentioning Horford will be off his contract after next season and I would be a bit surprised if he was back here for anything more than half his current contract. Honestly I think Horford would be thrilled with a 3 year 36 at age 34. If not, we would have someone cheaper there.
If Horford is opting out he's not getting less than 20 million AAV on whatever new deal he signs. I'd guess more along the lines of $25 million.
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I think it's less money than he would have made if he were to hit UFA next summer. So I say it's a good deal. The Celts pay less and Smart gets some long term security to protect against injury or whatever.
Good for both sides.
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Underpaid. Most guys in the mid-range of talent are getting $14-17M, just like he originally wanted.
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Also worth mentioning Horford will be off his contract after next season and I would be a bit surprised if he was back here for anything more than half his current contract. Honestly I think Horford would be thrilled with a 3 year 36 at age 34. If not, we would have someone cheaper there.
If Horford is opting out he's not getting less than 20 million AAV on whatever new deal he signs. I'd guess more along the lines of $25 million.
Frankly the AAV will depend on the length of the deal. $12/mil per year is obviously way too low barring a huge meltdown this year, but the high teens is not as crazy if it’s a 5-year deal.
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Also worth mentioning Horford will be off his contract after next season and I would be a bit surprised if he was back here for anything more than half his current contract. Honestly I think Horford would be thrilled with a 3 year 36 at age 34. If not, we would have someone cheaper there.
If Horford is opting out he's not getting less than 20 million AAV on whatever new deal he signs. I'd guess more along the lines of $25 million.
Frankly the AAV will depend on the length of the deal. $12/mil per year is obviously way too low barring a huge meltdown this year, but the high teens is not as crazy if it’s a 5-year deal.
I don't see him opting out of 30 million to sign a 5 year deal that only pays him in the teens myself.
I think the C's would love that though as it'd really make life easier on them.
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Also worth mentioning Horford will be off his contract after next season and I would be a bit surprised if he was back here for anything more than half his current contract. Honestly I think Horford would be thrilled with a 3 year 36 at age 34. If not, we would have someone cheaper there.
If Horford is opting out he's not getting less than 20 million AAV on whatever new deal he signs. I'd guess more along the lines of $25 million.
Frankly the AAV will depend on the length of the deal. $12/mil per year is obviously way too low barring a huge meltdown this year, but the high teens is not as crazy if it’s a 5-year deal.
I don't see him opting out of 30 million to sign a 5 year deal that only pays him in the teens myself.
I don’t think it’s likely. I just said not as crazy.
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A very good defensive player but for a guy who only shot 36% from the field and 30% from 3 pt range and who apparently is never going to get any better at offense that is a LOT of money.
The Celtics obviously value him defensively; just glad they didn't give him any more money than they did.
MikeB Celtics fan for 55 years
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Overpay. A little more than slight overpay but not a gross one.
I would have loved to not exceed 4yrs/36-40 and top out at 4yr /48.
So the 52 is up there for me.
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Properly paid.
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A very good defensive player but for a guy who only shot 36% from the field and 30% from 3 pt range and who apparently is never going to get any better at offense that is a LOT of money.
The Celtics obviously value him defensively; just glad they didn't give him any more money than they did.
MikeB Celtics fan for 55 years
Despite his horrific shooting, he is still somehow a net gain for the team... If Smart even becomes a slightly below average shooter instead of a well below average shooter, he is worth this contract.
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Slight overpay but Marcus is what adds a lot of our grit and leadership on the team. So he may be worth it.
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Neither. I feel it is a fair contract for all parties. Marcus gets security of being set for life. The Celtics get the identity of their team secured for 4 years. Plus he's a great contract for a trade down the road as well if a superstar becomes available at a time 3-4 years from now to match salary. Great win for everyone.
This exactly! C's needed a solid mid-level contract to trade if needed. And basically... it's about what Smart is worth.
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A very good defensive player but for a guy who only shot 36% from the field and 30% from 3 pt range and who apparently is never going to get any better at offense that is a LOT of money.
The Celtics obviously value him defensively; just glad they didn't give him any more money than they did.
MikeB Celtics fan for 55 years
Despite his horrific shooting, he is still somehow a net gain for the team... If Smart even becomes a slightly below average shooter instead of a well below average shooter, he is worth this contract.
I think one reality is --- he's going to shoot less. Marcus is not playing for a contract and doesn't have to prove he can shoot. And, he will not need to be the go-to guy on offense as (amazingly enough) he had to be from time to time last year.
If Marcus can return to 80% from the FT line, that will be a great plus.
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under IDC
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TP for answer....
When is the earliest the cba allows us to trade Smart?
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TP for answer....
When is the earliest the cba allows us to trade Smart?
Edit: I’m pretty sure it’s Jan. 15th
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TP for answer....
When is the earliest the cba allows us to trade Smart?
Edit: I’m pretty sure it’s Jan. 15th
tp thanks thats what i thought.
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I want to hear more about this $500,000 bonus for body fat weigh ins. Is that a per-year bonus?
That would mean a full $2 million depends on Marcus being in as good of shape as he can be.
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Also worth mentioning Horford will be off his contract after next season and I would be a bit surprised if he was back here for anything more than half his current contract. Honestly I think Horford would be thrilled with a 3 year 36 at age 34. If not, we would have someone cheaper there.
If Horford is opting out he's not getting less than 20 million AAV on whatever new deal he signs. I'd guess more along the lines of $25 million.
Frankly the AAV will depend on the length of the deal. $12/mil per year is obviously way too low barring a huge meltdown this year, but the high teens is not as crazy if it’s a 5-year deal.
I don't see him opting out of 30 million to sign a 5 year deal that only pays him in the teens myself.
I think the C's would love that though as it'd really make life easier on them.
why, what is the real difference between 1 year 30 million, followed by 4 years, 60 million or just signing a 5 year 90 million contract. Obviously more money up front, but way more long term security if you opt out and do the 5 year contract. What if he opts in and gets hurt? Or his play trails off? Or the market isn't that strong? He might be looking at a short term small dollar extension following that 30 million year. There is a lot of risk. Why wouldn't he consider locking in a long term contract for very nice money, but that also does the team a solid.
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I want to hear more about this $500,000 bonus for body fat weigh ins. Is that a per-year bonus?
That would mean a full $2 million depends on Marcus being in as good of shape as he can be.
It is per year.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/marcus-smart-15358/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/marcus-smart-15358/)
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Lets analyze this.
Smart signed for $52 million contract over 4 years, which is $13 million a year.
What if Smart had taken the QO and his total earnings would have been the same?
Salary year 1: $6 million
Salary year 2-4: $15,3 million
Basically the Celtics signed him at a 46/3 contract, since he had no other offers. But there is risk involved for both parties.
For Smart there was a chance he could have gotten a better contract next year, but now he has certainty of a new contract. With the serious injury risks for basketball players I would easily estimate the risk at 25%. Which means that the guaranteed additional $46 million is roughly the same valuewise as possibly getting a 57/3 contract next summer ($19 millon year). Thus more or less an insurance pay of $11 million.
For the Celtics there was an opportunity to wait it out till next season. There's a little risk in giving Smart a new contract already. However a player as an individual should be more risk averse than a franchise, since consequences for them are much greater when things go south. Therefore I only assign a 10% risk for the Celtics. Which means that the guaranteed $46 million is equivalent to about giving a 51/3 contract next summer ($17 million a year).
Of course my risk estimates are a little arbitrary and factors like personal relationships, tax implications and potential earnings after 4 years aren't taken into account. But in a vacuum my conclusions are as follows:
For Marcus Smart: if Marcus expected to get a contract offer next summer (for a duration of 3+ years) with a salary of more than $19 million a year he shouldn't have signed and otherwise it was a good deal for him.
For Boston Celtics: if Ainge and his staff expected that Smart would be offered a contract over $17 million a year it was a good deal, but otherwise they overpaid.
Personally I think that Smart would have gotten around $12 million, which makes this a clear overpay. The uniqueness of Smart makes it bareable. For Smart it's a superb deal, although him and his agent might really believe that a team would pay him $20+ million a year next season.
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I want to hear more about this $500,000 bonus for body fat weigh ins. Is that a per-year bonus?
That would mean a full $2 million depends on Marcus being in as good of shape as he can be.
It is per year.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/marcus-smart-15358/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/marcus-smart-15358/)
I love it. 4 more years of Skinny Marcus!
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I want to hear more about this $500,000 bonus for body fat weigh ins. Is that a per-year bonus?
That would mean a full $2 million depends on Marcus being in as good of shape as he can be.
It is per year.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/marcus-smart-15358/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/marcus-smart-15358/)
I love it. 4 more years of Skinny Marcus!
Or cheaper Fat Marcus?
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I want to hear more about this $500,000 bonus for body fat weigh ins. Is that a per-year bonus?
That would mean a full $2 million depends on Marcus being in as good of shape as he can be.
It is per year.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/marcus-smart-15358/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/marcus-smart-15358/)
I love it. 4 more years of Skinny Marcus!
Or cheaper Fat Marcus?
TP