Author Topic: Trading for Sabonis  (Read 5354 times)

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Trading for Sabonis
« on: October 21, 2020, 06:24:57 PM »

Offline the_gunner

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I believe that Sabonis is the perfect fit and the missing piece if we shall take the next step. He is flexible, on a really nice contract and he is still young. He will not be cheap, but I think I have come up with an interesting trade:

https://tradenba.com/trades/C9uBgCSzI

Why would we do it:
Sabonis is the ideal fit
Fultz is finally showing some of his talent, and is still on his rookie contract. If we can make him progres it's a steal and if not he is in his last year of his contract.

Trading Kembas expensive contract could also be a smart move in the long run.

Why would Indiana do it:
Oladipo wants out and getting Kemba as the leader of the team could be very beneficial. At the same time they can't make a combo of Turner and Sabonis work, so getting Gordon instead might be an upgrade

Why would Orlando do it:
Many picks so that they can't start a rebuild
If healthy Oladipo is really a great upgrade over Fultz, and an Oladipo/Vucevic combo can be really good

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2020, 06:31:23 PM »

Offline wiley

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Too many picks for Orlando and not enough for Indiana...give Indy a couple of those picks then it's more balanced, but I think Indy says no.

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2020, 08:37:34 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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I’d love to get Sabonis, but if the Pacers are trading a big it’s going to be Turner. Also, Brogdon is one of their better players, and is undersized to play next to Kemba.

I also think the Magic will get better offers for Gordon than ‘Dipo (who has *major* injury concerns) and some very late 1st and early 2d round picks.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 09:32:42 PM by Sophomore »

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2020, 10:37:06 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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We are not trading Kemba. Period.

Massive downgrade from this season if we were to do this trade.

Hayward, Romeo, and our three firsts this year for Turner and Oladipo

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2020, 12:03:21 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Indy's Sabonis ain't getting us past LeBron's and AD's Lakers, I'm sorry.

He's a fine player but not great defensively - as say a Gobert IMO.

Now HIS DAD?



Give me CCCP Arvydas Sabonis ANY DAY of the week and TWICE on Sundays.

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2020, 12:17:19 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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We are not trading Kemba. Period.

Massive downgrade from this season if we were to do this trade.

Hayward, Romeo, and our three firsts this year for Turner and Oladipo

I usually say that about Hayward (and still believe he won't ever be traded), but I could totally see Danny moving Kemba for guy who can play defense and a big, now that Tatum will be getting 20 shots a game, Jaylen 15 and Hayward 14.

I wonder if the Spurs could be persuaded to give up Dejounte Murray?

Gay, Mills, Murray, Bellineli for Kemba, Romeo, Kanter and picks works...

EDIT: No this trade doesn't work. Murray is Poison Pilled by his extension.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 12:22:59 AM by trickybilly »
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2020, 12:20:30 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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While there is a certain alluring charm to the idea of getting Fultz here, recovered from his struggles and possibly thriving and maybe reaching his potential right alongside Jayson Tatum -- because that would probably truly cause Philly fans to loose their collective minds -- and while I really like Sabonis for all kinds of reasons ...

I vote "no".   

My basic threshold is that any trade involving a starter has to result in a clear and definite upgrade to the starting lineup.   Domantas is probably an upgrade over Theis, but not a gigantic upgrade.   And while Fultz has manage to 'right the ship' and may one day reach the lofty potential that was projected for him before his shoulder got all screwed up, right now he simply is nowhere near the player that Kemba Walker is.

So our starting lineup would see a small upgrade at center and a big downgrade at point guard and overall be weaker.

So, pass.

But boy, would that be a sweet story in that alternative universe where Fultz comes back and wins a title in green alongside Jayson & Jaylen while Philly fans cry and cry and cry ....   sigh ...
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2020, 01:03:47 AM »

Offline gouki88

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While I love Sabonis' game he isn't the missing piece for us. He's a below average defender and offers no floor spacing. While his rebounding and passing would be a sight for sore eyes I don't think he puts us over the top, especially in this deal where we're overpaying
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2020, 03:20:44 AM »

Offline the_gunner

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Thank you for all the responses.

I admit that I might have send to many picks to Magic and to little to Pacers, but I really can't see that it's an overpay for us. On the other hand it is clear that it will help the Pacers as they can't get the best out of their assets as it is at the moment.

Eventhough Kemba is a great player, his contract is not an asset it is more a burden, especially when you look at the length of it and the deterioration of his game in the future.

On the other hand Sabonis is an allstar center, who is not even in his prime years yet, and on a long and really cheap contract. He is a modern center, and just because Indiana are having troubles using him in spacing the floor doesn't mean that he can't do it our system - the guy is not a bad shooter.

For me the trade really works well as the situation at the moment is:
- we can't get full value out of our picks - so why not trade them
- Pacers are not getting enough out their starcombo
- Orlando have no picks and they have no chance of competing with the current roster

This trade solves all of that

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2020, 03:32:35 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Thank you for all the responses.

I admit that I might have send to many picks to Magic and to little to Pacers, but I really can't see that it's an overpay for us. On the other hand it is clear that it will help the Pacers as they can't get the best out of their assets as it is at the moment.

Eventhough Kemba is a great player, his contract is not an asset it is more a burden, especially when you look at the length of it and the deterioration of his game in the future.

On the other hand Sabonis is an allstar center, who is not even in his prime years yet, and on a long and really cheap contract. He is a modern center, and just because Indiana are having troubles using him in spacing the floor doesn't mean that he can't do it our system - the guy is not a bad shooter.

For me the trade really works well as the situation at the moment is:
- we can't get full value out of our picks - so why not trade them
- Pacers are not getting enough out their starcombo
- Orlando have no picks and they have no chance of competing with the current roster

This trade solves all of that
I still think the major concern with Sabonis is his defensive ability does not fit with the guys Stevens likes to play. Stevens likes his big men to be mobile and good at protecting the rim - Sabonis is neither.

I feel like we could get a big man who would provide similar to us for cheaper. Vucevic and Valanciunas are the two guys I would trade for before Sabonis as I believe they'd be considerably cheaper and provide similar strengths. Sabonis is the best passer, but Vucevic is a better scorer/shooter and Valanciunas is a better defender.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2020, 04:29:21 AM »

Offline ederson

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Thank you for all the responses.

I admit that I might have send to many picks to Magic and to little to Pacers, but I really can't see that it's an overpay for us. On the other hand it is clear that it will help the Pacers as they can't get the best out of their assets as it is at the moment.

Eventhough Kemba is a great player, his contract is not an asset it is more a burden, especially when you look at the length of it and the deterioration of his game in the future.

On the other hand Sabonis is an allstar center, who is not even in his prime years yet, and on a long and really cheap contract. He is a modern center, and just because Indiana are having troubles using him in spacing the floor doesn't mean that he can't do it our system - the guy is not a bad shooter.

For me the trade really works well as the situation at the moment is:
- we can't get full value out of our picks - so why not trade them
- Pacers are not getting enough out their starcombo
- Orlando have no picks and they have no chance of competing with the current roster

This trade solves all of that
I still think the major concern with Sabonis is his defensive ability does not fit with the guys Stevens likes to play. Stevens likes his big men to be mobile and good at protecting the rim - Sabonis is neither.

I feel like we could get a big man who would provide similar to us for cheaper. Vucevic and Valanciunas are the two guys I would trade for before Sabonis as I believe they'd be considerably cheaper and provide similar strengths. Sabonis is the best passer, but Vucevic is a better scorer/shooter and Valanciunas is a better defender.

somehow in my mind the name Vucevic and the term agile rim protector do not belong in the same sentence

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2020, 04:58:23 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Thank you for all the responses.

I admit that I might have send to many picks to Magic and to little to Pacers, but I really can't see that it's an overpay for us. On the other hand it is clear that it will help the Pacers as they can't get the best out of their assets as it is at the moment.

Eventhough Kemba is a great player, his contract is not an asset it is more a burden, especially when you look at the length of it and the deterioration of his game in the future.

On the other hand Sabonis is an allstar center, who is not even in his prime years yet, and on a long and really cheap contract. He is a modern center, and just because Indiana are having troubles using him in spacing the floor doesn't mean that he can't do it our system - the guy is not a bad shooter.

For me the trade really works well as the situation at the moment is:
- we can't get full value out of our picks - so why not trade them
- Pacers are not getting enough out their starcombo
- Orlando have no picks and they have no chance of competing with the current roster

This trade solves all of that
I still think the major concern with Sabonis is his defensive ability does not fit with the guys Stevens likes to play. Stevens likes his big men to be mobile and good at protecting the rim - Sabonis is neither.

I feel like we could get a big man who would provide similar to us for cheaper. Vucevic and Valanciunas are the two guys I would trade for before Sabonis as I believe they'd be considerably cheaper and provide similar strengths. Sabonis is the best passer, but Vucevic is a better scorer/shooter and Valanciunas is a better defender.

somehow in my mind the name Vucevic and the term agile rim protector do not belong in the same sentence
I should have been more clear in my choice of language.

If we were going to go for a less agile more bruising type of a big (Sabonis, Vucevic, Valanciunas types) I would prefer to go for the latter two as they'd be cheaper while IMO being basically as good as Sabonis would be. Didn't mean to describe them as agile rim protectors like Horford or Theis.
Although, in Valanciunas' defence, I think his rim-protection is pretty solid
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2020, 07:18:32 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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Thank you for all the responses.

I admit that I might have send to many picks to Magic and to little to Pacers, but I really can't see that it's an overpay for us. On the other hand it is clear that it will help the Pacers as they can't get the best out of their assets as it is at the moment.

Eventhough Kemba is a great player, his contract is not an asset it is more a burden, especially when you look at the length of it and the deterioration of his game in the future.

On the other hand Sabonis is an allstar center, who is not even in his prime years yet, and on a long and really cheap contract. He is a modern center, and just because Indiana are having troubles using him in spacing the floor doesn't mean that he can't do it our system - the guy is not a bad shooter.

For me the trade really works well as the situation at the moment is:
- we can't get full value out of our picks - so why not trade them
- Pacers are not getting enough out their starcombo
- Orlando have no picks and they have no chance of competing with the current roster

This trade solves all of that
I still think the major concern with Sabonis is his defensive ability does not fit with the guys Stevens likes to play. Stevens likes his big men to be mobile and good at protecting the rim - Sabonis is neither.

I feel like we could get a big man who would provide similar to us for cheaper. Vucevic and Valanciunas are the two guys I would trade for before Sabonis as I believe they'd be considerably cheaper and provide similar strengths. Sabonis is the best passer, but Vucevic is a better scorer/shooter and Valanciunas is a better defender.

somehow in my mind the name Vucevic and the term agile rim protector do not belong in the same sentence
I should have been more clear in my choice of language.

If we were going to go for a less agile more bruising type of a big (Sabonis, Vucevic, Valanciunas types) I would prefer to go for the latter two as they'd be cheaper while IMO being basically as good as Sabonis would be. Didn't mean to describe them as agile rim protectors like Horford or Theis.
Although, in Valanciunas' defence, I think his rim-protection is pretty solid

Sabonis’ contract pays much less than Vucevic’. Over the next three years, Vuc will make $72 million, Sabonic about $55.5 million. And there’s a fourth year on Sabonis’ contract. Over the deal he’s paid less than $20M/year. For an all-star who put up 18.5-12.4-5 last year at age 24 - just now entering his prime? Unless he’s worthless on defense that’s a team-friendly deal.

Valanciunas is paid about $2M less than DS next year, $4M less the year after, then his contract expires.

There may be reasons to like those other guys more but I wouldn’t put it down to their contracts.

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2020, 07:22:17 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Thank you for all the responses.

I admit that I might have send to many picks to Magic and to little to Pacers, but I really can't see that it's an overpay for us. On the other hand it is clear that it will help the Pacers as they can't get the best out of their assets as it is at the moment.

Eventhough Kemba is a great player, his contract is not an asset it is more a burden, especially when you look at the length of it and the deterioration of his game in the future.

On the other hand Sabonis is an allstar center, who is not even in his prime years yet, and on a long and really cheap contract. He is a modern center, and just because Indiana are having troubles using him in spacing the floor doesn't mean that he can't do it our system - the guy is not a bad shooter.

For me the trade really works well as the situation at the moment is:
- we can't get full value out of our picks - so why not trade them
- Pacers are not getting enough out their starcombo
- Orlando have no picks and they have no chance of competing with the current roster

This trade solves all of that
I still think the major concern with Sabonis is his defensive ability does not fit with the guys Stevens likes to play. Stevens likes his big men to be mobile and good at protecting the rim - Sabonis is neither.

I feel like we could get a big man who would provide similar to us for cheaper. Vucevic and Valanciunas are the two guys I would trade for before Sabonis as I believe they'd be considerably cheaper and provide similar strengths. Sabonis is the best passer, but Vucevic is a better scorer/shooter and Valanciunas is a better defender.

somehow in my mind the name Vucevic and the term agile rim protector do not belong in the same sentence
I should have been more clear in my choice of language.

If we were going to go for a less agile more bruising type of a big (Sabonis, Vucevic, Valanciunas types) I would prefer to go for the latter two as they'd be cheaper while IMO being basically as good as Sabonis would be. Didn't mean to describe them as agile rim protectors like Horford or Theis.
Although, in Valanciunas' defence, I think his rim-protection is pretty solid

Sabonis’ contract pays much less than Vucevic’. Over the next three years, Vuc will make $72 million, Sabonic about $55.5 million. And there’s a fourth year on Sabonis’ contract. Over the deal he’s paid less than $20M/year. For an all-star who put up 18.5-12.4-5 last year at age 24 - just now entering his prime? Unless he’s worthless on defense that’s a team-friendly deal.

Valanciunas is paid about $2M less than DS next year, $4M less the year after, then his contract expires.

There may be reasons to like those other guys more but I wouldn’t put it down to their contracts.
Again, my phrasing has hurt me.

By using the term cost I was referring to the trade cost, rather than the literal cost of their contract. My bad, lol
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Trading for Sabonis
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2020, 07:25:21 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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I'd be shocked to see Sabonis traded, seems more likely that he becomes the central building block of the post Oladipo Pacers
Mavs
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