Chris Mannix on WEEI: "Butler AND Jamison available in salary dump"

[rondohondo]

I would prefer a Mike Miller + Antawn Jamison trade package to a Butler + Jamison trade.

It would be nice if you steal away McGee on top of that ... but that's being greedy to the extreme.

I like Dominic McGuire a lot too but I don't think Doc would play him so he is probably irrelevant as a trade acquisition.

I agree I would rather get Miller back , but they want to clear a ton of cap space and Butler would be  another 10 mil gone.

[OCsWestCeltic]

I like this trade idea.


Hollinger says we improve our wins by +2 for the rest of the
season.



Rondo/Daniels
Butler/House/Giddens
Pierce/Allen/Walker
Garnett/Jamison/Scalabrine
Perkins/Wallace/Williams

[Birdbrain]

I don't see Houston giving up Landry or Brooks so I guess you could package tmac with Ariza for them.  Anyway we need to make a move IMO so I think we would overpay for a younger player with a ' bad contract ' while KG is still around.

Crownsy you make some very valid points about past trades.  Maybe we give up some future #1's.  But Danny can't believe they can win it all at this point because KG may never get back to his even 08/09 version.  

[Birdbrain]

I like this trade idea.


Hollinger says we improve our wins by +2 for the rest of the
season.



Rondo/Daniels
Butler/House/Giddens
Pierce/Allen/Walker
Garnett/Jamison/Scalabrine
Perkins/Wallace/Williams

If they were able to actually makes this trade and everyone stayed healthy they would be much better than +2 in the win dept.  But coming from Hollinger with his constant up is down view of the NBA it makes sense.

[jdpapa3]

crownsy
Richard Jefferson:
June 23, 2009: Traded by the Milwaukee Bucks to the San Antonio Spurs for Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto and Kurt Thomas.

That's a talent for expirings and nothing else. Yea, Jefferson fell on his face, but I feel Jefferson then/Butler now have similar value around the league. Remember that the Spurs were heavily applauded for this trade at the time and people thought it would allow them to hang with LA.

And I know it is cliche to say this, but the economic climate really does affect this kind of stuff. Most ownerships around the league had to take a hit on that halving of the stock market and it's not as easy to pay that dollar for dollar lux tax. If a team is going to be out of the title hunt, we could see some weird deals go down that no one is seeing right now.

As for giving Ray for Butler/Jamison: Jamison is regressing heavily and on a terrible contract. He'd constrict us heavily for the next 3 years so no thanks. There's a really, really small chance that ownership would say yes. Even next year we'd already be at 84 million with 7 guys. Just not reasonable.

[rondohondo]

crownsy
Richard Jefferson:
June 23, 2009: Traded by the Milwaukee Bucks to the San Antonio Spurs for Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto and Kurt Thomas.

That's a talent for expirings and nothing else. Yea, Jefferson fell on his face, but I feel Jefferson then/Butler now have similar value around the league. Remember that the Spurs were heavily applauded for this trade at the time and people thought it would allow them to hang with LA.

And I know it is cliche to say this, but the economic climate really does affect this kind of stuff. Most ownerships around the league had to take a hit on that halving of the stock market and it's not as easy to pay that dollar for dollar lux tax. If a team is going to be out of the title hunt, we could see some weird deals go down that no one is seeing right now.

As for giving Ray for Butler/Jamison: Jamison is regressing heavily and on a terrible contract. He'd constrict us heavily for the next 3 years so no thanks. There's a really, really small chance that ownership would say yes. Even next year we'd already be at 84 million with 7 guys. Just not reasonable.

I dont know they might do it. Butler will be an expiring next year along with PP and Jamison will expire the year after(2012) along with KG and Sheed

I would much rather trade for Martin or Nocioni if it was available, but this may be the best package the C's could possibly get back for Ray and a few small pieces.

[crownsy]

I don't see Houston giving up Landry or Brooks so I guess you could package tmac with Ariza for them.  Anyway we need to make a move IMO so I think we would overpay for a younger player with a ' bad contract ' while KG is still around.

Crownsy you make some very valid points about past trades.  Maybe we give up some future #1's.  But Danny can't believe they can win it all at this point because KG may never get back to his even 08/09 version.  

Right, but i think you have to consider keeping ray unless you get a trade that keeps you flexible, cap wise. Or, and believe me i'd be happy to be wrong, if some sort of great deal falls into your lap.

At worst, if you keep ray and he expires, you go after him with a reasonable (read- short term, 7-8 a year bench role) contract, suck it up for next year, and then see how paul shakes out.

At worst, if you manage it right, you have space for two max's contracts when KG fallls off the books, assuming ray + paul resign short term for much less money when they are up, and you lock up perk to something reasonable.

That leaves you something like (comeplte guess, to many variables)

PG: rondo
SG: some young player, possibly our first round pick this upcoming draft
SF: pierce at lower cost
PF: KG back for cheap/ open going into 2011-2012 offseason
C: perk

Sixth man Ray

and then, assuming ray's deal was the 8/2 years, you drop KG and ray that offseason, and paul may retire/ have one more year left.

At that point your looking at two max deals to offer to pair with rondo, perk, and whatever else we've assembled.

IF one of the max contracts gets durant away in his first year of FA, so much the better

NOTE: of course, given the fact that the CBA at that time will probably no longer resemble the current one, above dream scenario may be completely unworkable anyway

[Birdbrain]

I don't see Houston giving up Landry or Brooks so I guess you could package tmac with Ariza for them.  Anyway we need to make a move IMO so I think we would overpay for a younger player with a ' bad contract ' while KG is still around.

Crownsy you make some very valid points about past trades.  Maybe we give up some future #1's.  But Danny can't believe they can win it all at this point because KG may never get back to his even 08/09 version.  

Right, but i think you have to consider keeping ray unless you get a trade that keeps you flexible, cap wise. Or, and believe me i'd be happy to be wrong, if some sort of great deal falls into your lap.

At worst, if you keep ray and he expires, you go after him with a reasonable (read- short term, 7-8 a year bench role) contract, suck it up for next year, and then see how paul shakes out.

At worst, if you manage it right, you have space for two max's contracts when KG fallls off the books, assuming ray + paul resign short term for much less money when they are up, and you lock up perk to something reasonable.

That leaves you something like (comeplte guess, to many variables)

PG: rondo
SG: some young player, possibly our first round pick this upcoming draft
SF: pierce at lower cost
PF: KG back for cheap/ open going into 2011-2012 offseason
C: perk

Sixth man Ray

and then, assuming ray's deal was the 8/2 years, you drop KG and ray that offseason, and paul may retire/ have one more year left.

At that point your looking at two max deals to offer to pair with rondo, perk, and whatever else we've assembled.

IF one of the max contracts gets durant away in his first year of FA, so much the better

NOTE: of course, given the fact that the CBA at that time will probably no longer resemble the current one, above dream scenario may be completely unworkable anyway

TP for a very convincing argument for staying pat. 

[jdpapa3]

crownsy
Richard Jefferson:
June 23, 2009: Traded by the Milwaukee Bucks to the San Antonio Spurs for Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto and Kurt Thomas.

That's a talent for expirings and nothing else. Yea, Jefferson fell on his face, but I feel Jefferson then/Butler now have similar value around the league. Remember that the Spurs were heavily applauded for this trade at the time and people thought it would allow them to hang with LA.

And I know it is cliche to say this, but the economic climate really does affect this kind of stuff. Most ownerships around the league had to take a hit on that halving of the stock market and it's not as easy to pay that dollar for dollar lux tax. If a team is going to be out of the title hunt, we could see some weird deals go down that no one is seeing right now.

As for giving Ray for Butler/Jamison: Jamison is regressing heavily and on a terrible contract. He'd constrict us heavily for the next 3 years so no thanks. There's a really, really small chance that ownership would say yes. Even next year we'd already be at 84 million with 7 guys. Just not reasonable.

I dont know they might do it. Butler will be an expiring next year along with PP and Jamison will expire the year after(2012) along with KG and Sheed

I would much rather trade for Martin or Nocioni if it was available, but this may be the best package the C's could possibly get back for Ray and a few small pieces.

Just to give some perspective: 84 million is our current salary and it is higher than many other teams in the league. So, to have 84 million tied to only 7 players has the highest of unlikeliness.

And I do want Martin, but don't want Nocioni's contract. That is probably the main issue with acquiring Martin. Too many people are focused on the players and give little thought to the contract. Hinrich and Noc are good talents that would fit here, but their contracts are just not reasonable for what they provide.

[rondohondo]

crownsy
Richard Jefferson:
June 23, 2009: Traded by the Milwaukee Bucks to the San Antonio Spurs for Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto and Kurt Thomas.

That's a talent for expirings and nothing else. Yea, Jefferson fell on his face, but I feel Jefferson then/Butler now have similar value around the league. Remember that the Spurs were heavily applauded for this trade at the time and people thought it would allow them to hang with LA.

And I know it is cliche to say this, but the economic climate really does affect this kind of stuff. Most ownerships around the league had to take a hit on that halving of the stock market and it's not as easy to pay that dollar for dollar lux tax. If a team is going to be out of the title hunt, we could see some weird deals go down that no one is seeing right now.

As for giving Ray for Butler/Jamison: Jamison is regressing heavily and on a terrible contract. He'd constrict us heavily for the next 3 years so no thanks. There's a really, really small chance that ownership would say yes. Even next year we'd already be at 84 million with 7 guys. Just not reasonable.

I dont know they might do it. Butler will be an expiring next year along with PP and Jamison will expire the year after(2012) along with KG and Sheed

I would much rather trade for Martin or Nocioni if it was available, but this may be the best package the C's could possibly get back for Ray and a few small pieces.

Just to give some perspective: 84 million is our current salary and it is higher than many other teams in the league. So, to have 84 million tied to only 7 players has the highest of unlikeliness.

And I do want Martin, but don't want Nocioni's contract. That is probably the main issue with acquiring Martin. Too many people are focused on the players and give little thought to the contract. Hinrich and Noc are good talents that would fit here, but their contracts are just not reasonable for what they provide.

yea I guess you're right

If the C's could move sheed for an expiring and a young player with upside( like Augustin)that would free up cap room to take on Nocioni along with Martin. Send Ray and Augustin( or another young piece we get in a sheed trade) to the Kings .

[Evantime34]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

The Ray deal and the Gasol trade are the two recent examples. Both had okay prospects and players going to a team for an all-star.

The problem is we don't even have that okay player to send....

Right faf, thats exactly my point. These deals that have ray's contract outgoing for young players are unrealistic.

The gasol deal, contrary to the opinions that the lakers were getting the best deal ever, STILL included a player (marc gasol) who people were quite high on and is proving to be a very interesting prospect.

You need at least a decent prospect to package. We don't have that.

The closest you can argue is baby and TA, but baby isn't exactly proving his play last year was the norm, and now tony is one of the only guys off the bench who look like the give a rats behind, so im reluctant to trade him.

In the past trades haven't happened for a straight salary dump. However, these are by far the hardest economic times the NBA has faced since the CBA in its modern form was created. That coupled with teams trying to get under the cap because of the 2010 free agent class, I feel that of all years this the year where a team is likely to get the most out of only an expiring contract.

I do agree however that it is unlikely a gm will trade a very good player for an expiring contract. What I do believe is one gm will be willing to trade young pieces for a large expiring contract, while we recieving the good player and the young pieces go to that players former team.

I think a 3 way will be worked out where we only give up the expiring contract of ray for an established player with a longer contract.

Again evan, this is a decent argument, and i've heard it. That these are completely different times and the trade rules no longer apply.

However, until I see SOME evidence on the ground that teams are willing to suddenly do deals like this, I'm going to stick to the belief that it's incredibly unlikely that such a deal would take place.

I agree that it is unlikely but I have decided to take an optimistic stance with this team, due to all the negative talk about them. So I'm really hoping they can get someone good for Ray's expiring but I'm not expecting it.

[Rida]

I

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

Houston is not parting with any of their young talent in a deal for T-Mac. The Wizards will get players from a 3rd team who is interested in T-Mac.

My question is why can't we take Houston's place and move Ray for Jamison and Butler? Then Ray goes to the 3rd team and the 3rd team gives up some youngsters and a pick for cap flexibility.

Would people do such a deal?

I'll say it before and i'll say it again:

If ray allen moves as just a contract for an upper tier player, it will be the first time in the history of the NBA. Until it happens, im very skeptical about these teams who are supposedly lining up to help us out for a salary dump with no incoming talent.

His contract is attractive for teams, but no team is going to trade established players for an expiring and the hope that they might get lucky in FA.

That leads us to the problem we have, outside ray, we really don't have any younger players who are available that teams care about.

Yes but you have never seen economic times like these, thats why so many teams are looking to dump their number one expenses: player salaries

[screwedupmaniac]

Only thing I don't like about the idea of getting Butler and Jamison is that we add yet another big man who uses the outside shot far too much. This does nothing to improve our rebound situation. I would do it if we can ditch Big Baby in the trade, and then move Sheed in a separate trade with a team like Charlotte.

[screwedupmaniac]

http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/

Ray, Scal, and Davis for Butler and Jamison would clear up a ton of money for Washington, and give them a decent young prospect in Baby to replace Jamison's midrange/outside shot. Worst case scenario, Baby's small paycheck is gone in another year.

[crownsy]

I

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

Houston is not parting with any of their young talent in a deal for T-Mac. The Wizards will get players from a 3rd team who is interested in T-Mac.

My question is why can't we take Houston's place and move Ray for Jamison and Butler? Then Ray goes to the 3rd team and the 3rd team gives up some youngsters and a pick for cap flexibility.

Would people do such a deal?

I'll say it before and i'll say it again:

If ray allen moves as just a contract for an upper tier player, it will be the first time in the history of the NBA. Until it happens, im very skeptical about these teams who are supposedly lining up to help us out for a salary dump with no incoming talent.

His contract is attractive for teams, but no team is going to trade established players for an expiring and the hope that they might get lucky in FA.

That leads us to the problem we have, outside ray, we really don't have any younger players who are available that teams care about.

Yes but you have never seen economic times like these, thats why so many teams are looking to dump their number one expenses: player salaries

Who's actually pulled the trigger on one of these deals yet though?

Show me why it's not pure speculation that teams are willing to downgrade there squads purely for cap relief this year.