Chris Mannix on WEEI: "Butler AND Jamison available in salary dump"

[Birdbrain]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

I was just wondering who Houston had with regard to youthful talent.  You are right though and we would have to give up something else to get Butler and Jamison.  I would go for Butler only but, I bet Washington want both of them to go.

[Evantime34]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

The Ray deal and the Gasol trade are the two recent examples. Both had okay prospects and players going to a team for an all-star.

The problem is we don't even have that okay player to send....

Right faf, thats exactly my point. These deals that have ray's contract outgoing for young players are unrealistic.

The gasol deal, contrary to the opinions that the lakers were getting the best deal ever, STILL included a player (marc gasol) who people were quite high on and is proving to be a very interesting prospect.

You need at least a decent prospect to package. We don't have that.

The closest you can argue is baby and TA, but baby isn't exactly proving his play last year was the norm, and now tony is one of the only guys off the bench who look like the give a rats behind, so im reluctant to trade him.

In the past trades haven't happened for a straight salary dump. However, these are by far the hardest economic times the NBA has faced since the CBA in its modern form was created. That coupled with teams trying to get under the cap because of the 2010 free agent class, I feel that of all years this the year where a team is likely to get the most out of only an expiring contract.

I do agree however that it is unlikely a gm will trade a very good player for an expiring contract. What I do believe is one gm will be willing to trade young pieces for a large expiring contract, while we recieving the good player and the young pieces go to that players former team.

I think a 3 way will be worked out where we only give up the expiring contract of ray for an established player with a longer contract.

[rondohondo]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

I was just wondering who Houston had with regard to youthful talent.  You are right though and we would have to give up something else to get Butler and Jamison.  I would go for Butler only but, I bet Washington want both of them to go.

Bos sends: BBD, Ray + 1st rd pick
Bos gets : Butler + Jamison


Char Sends: Augustin, Graham
Char Gets : BBD

Wash sends: Butler + Jamison
Wash gets : Ray, Augustin, Graham + 1st rd pick


We could easily get a 3rd team involved to get a few young pieces to send to Washington along with Ray. BBD would not be needed if we had Jamison.

Washington needs a young PG to replace Gilbert Arenas. They also get a pick and save a ton of money.

[crownsy]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

What about Marcus Camby to the Clippers?

or Jamal Crawford to Atlanta ?

both not relevant examples.

The crawford deal took on a bad contract to give the hawks cap relief (claxton) and at the time gave up a decent young prospect, ala west, in acie law. Crawford was also not expiring.

The above is in no way, shape, or form a deal sending an young established player to a team for an expiring alone, which is what i asked for an example of.

Camby isn't an expiring contract, nor is he young. He's a bad contract that one team didn't mind laundering for a (most likely) high second round pick in the future.

That is again, not an expiring contract for a proven young stud.

TP for the idea's, but both of those are hardly relevant to the Idea that's infected this blog that an expiring contract is going to net a young stud (AI2, Martin, Ellis) that has run rampant in the trade scenarios here.

[Moranis]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

The Ray deal and the Gasol trade are the two recent examples. Both had okay prospects and players going to a team for an all-star.

The problem is we don't even have that okay player to send....

Depends on what people's view of Davis is.  I also would probably throw in Perkins if we got both Butler and Jamison (hey maybe we could even get Haywood back in return).  Also, some teams might find value in the Turkish kid the C's drafted (erden).  Maybe they think he will be like Marc Gasol or something.

People forget the Grizzlies got Marc Gasol, Crittenton, 08 1st (Donte Greene, who memphis traded but who has played well enough), and a 2010 1st.  Sure it was a great deal for the Lakers, but Marc Gasol has played well and they still have an extra 1st this summer and both Greene and Crittenton had shown some flashes of skill.

[rondohondo]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

What about Marcus Camby to the Clippers?

or Jamal Crawford to Atlanta ?

both not relevant examples.

The crawford deal took on a bad contract to give the hawks cap relief (claxton) and at the time gave up a decent young prospect, ala west, in acie law. Crawford was also not expiring.

The above is in no way, shape, or form a deal sending an young established player to a team for an expiring alone, which is what i asked for an example of.

Camby isn't an expiring contract, nor is he young. He's a bad contract that one team didn't mind laundering for a (most likely) high second round pick in the future.

That is again, not an expiring contract for a proven young stud.

TP for the idea's, but both of those are hardly relevant to the Idea that's infected this blog that an expiring contract is going to net a young stud (AI2, Martin, Ellis) that has run rampant in the trade scenarios here.

yea except Butler + Jamison aren't young talent anymore....

Butler is 30 and Jamison 33

[crownsy]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

The Ray deal and the Gasol trade are the two recent examples. Both had okay prospects and players going to a team for an all-star.

The problem is we don't even have that okay player to send....

Right faf, thats exactly my point. These deals that have ray's contract outgoing for young players are unrealistic.

The gasol deal, contrary to the opinions that the lakers were getting the best deal ever, STILL included a player (marc gasol) who people were quite high on and is proving to be a very interesting prospect.

You need at least a decent prospect to package. We don't have that.

The closest you can argue is baby and TA, but baby isn't exactly proving his play last year was the norm, and now tony is one of the only guys off the bench who look like the give a rats behind, so im reluctant to trade him.

In the past trades haven't happened for a straight salary dump. However, these are by far the hardest economic times the NBA has faced since the CBA in its modern form was created. That coupled with teams trying to get under the cap because of the 2010 free agent class, I feel that of all years this the year where a team is likely to get the most out of only an expiring contract.

I do agree however that it is unlikely a gm will trade a very good player for an expiring contract. What I do believe is one gm will be willing to trade young pieces for a large expiring contract, while we recieving the good player and the young pieces go to that players former team.

I think a 3 way will be worked out where we only give up the expiring contract of ray for an established player with a longer contract.

Again evan, this is a decent argument, and i've heard it. That these are completely different times and the trade rules no longer apply.

However, until I see SOME evidence on the ground that teams are willing to suddenly do deals like this, I'm going to stick to the belief that it's incredibly unlikely that such a deal would take place.

[Birdbrain]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

What about Marcus Camby to the Clippers?

or Jamal Crawford to Atlanta ?

both not relevant examples.

The crawford deal took on a bad contract to give the hawks cap relief (claxton) and at the time gave up a decent young prospect, ala west, in acie law. Crawford was also not expiring.

The above is in no way, shape, or form a deal sending an young established player to a team for an expiring alone, which is what i asked for an example of.

Camby isn't an expiring contract, nor is he young. He's a bad contract that one team didn't mind laundering for a (most likely) high second round pick in the future.

That is again, not an expiring contract for a proven young stud.

TP for the idea's, but both of those are hardly relevant to the Idea that's infected this blog that an expiring contract is going to net a young stud (AI2, Martin, Ellis) that has run rampant in the trade scenarios here.

yea except Butler + Jamison aren't young talent anymore....

Butler is 30 and Jamison 33

Well there is that as well.  Good point.

[BballTim]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

What about Marcus Camby to the Clippers?

or Jamal Crawford to Atlanta ?

both not relevant examples.

The crawford deal took on a bad contract to give the hawks cap relief (claxton) and at the time gave up a decent young prospect, ala west, in acie law. Crawford was also not expiring.

The above is in no way, shape, or form a deal sending an young established player to a team for an expiring alone, which is what i asked for an example of.

Camby isn't an expiring contract, nor is he young. He's a bad contract that one team didn't mind laundering for a (most likely) high second round pick in the future.

That is again, not an expiring contract for a proven young stud.

TP for the idea's, but both of those are hardly relevant to the Idea that's infected this blog that an expiring contract is going to net a young stud (AI2, Martin, Ellis) that has run rampant in the trade scenarios here.

  How about the Chauncey trade?

[celticsclay]

I

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

Houston is not parting with any of their young talent in a deal for T-Mac. The Wizards will get players from a 3rd team who is interested in T-Mac.

My question is why can't we take Houston's place and move Ray for Jamison and Butler? Then Ray goes to the 3rd team and the 3rd team gives up some youngsters and a pick for cap flexibility.

Would people do such a deal?

I'll say it before and i'll say it again:

If ray allen moves as just a contract for an upper tier player, it will be the first time in the history of the NBA. Until it happens, im very skeptical about these teams who are supposedly lining up to help us out for a salary dump with no incoming talent.

His contract is attractive for teams, but no team is going to trade established players for an expiring and the hope that they might get lucky in FA.

That leads us to the problem we have, outside ray, we really don't have any younger players who are available that teams care about.

But doesn't the economic client change everything

[crownsy]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

What about Marcus Camby to the Clippers?

or Jamal Crawford to Atlanta ?

both not relevant examples.

The crawford deal took on a bad contract to give the hawks cap relief (claxton) and at the time gave up a decent young prospect, ala west, in acie law. Crawford was also not expiring.

The above is in no way, shape, or form a deal sending an young established player to a team for an expiring alone, which is what i asked for an example of.

Camby isn't an expiring contract, nor is he young. He's a bad contract that one team didn't mind laundering for a (most likely) high second round pick in the future.

That is again, not an expiring contract for a proven young stud.

TP for the idea's, but both of those are hardly relevant to the Idea that's infected this blog that an expiring contract is going to net a young stud (AI2, Martin, Ellis) that has run rampant in the trade scenarios here.

yea except Butler + Jamison aren't young talent anymore....

Butler is 30 and Jamison 33

Ok, fine, lets say your right and butler is not considered a younger star because he's not 28 or 29.

mabey teams will suddenly start panicking and trading solid starters for expirings alone, even though it has hardly, if ever, happened in the NBA.

but even if they did, explain to me why boston giving an expiring contract and nothing is the same as houston giving Tmac's expiring PLUS (according to the rumor) another piece?

wouldn't you take T-mac's expiring + something if you were washington over ray and nothing? or at the best, ray and Baby/ Ta?

Explain to me how that's justified, outside of the understandable, if not rational, idea that teams want to come out worse in trades with the celtics than they could with any other team that runs rampant in all these trade scenarios.

[crownsy]

I

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

Houston is not parting with any of their young talent in a deal for T-Mac. The Wizards will get players from a 3rd team who is interested in T-Mac.

My question is why can't we take Houston's place and move Ray for Jamison and Butler? Then Ray goes to the 3rd team and the 3rd team gives up some youngsters and a pick for cap flexibility.

Would people do such a deal?

I'll say it before and i'll say it again:

If ray allen moves as just a contract for an upper tier player, it will be the first time in the history of the NBA. Until it happens, im very skeptical about these teams who are supposedly lining up to help us out for a salary dump with no incoming talent.

His contract is attractive for teams, but no team is going to trade established players for an expiring and the hope that they might get lucky in FA.

That leads us to the problem we have, outside ray, we really don't have any younger players who are available that teams care about.

But doesn't the economic client change everything

apparently not as much as i'm being lead to believe, since no other team has dumped good players for expirings alone in a fit of panic.

I'm sure the celtics mystery partner will start the trend though 

[guava_wrench]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

What about Marcus Camby to the Clippers?

or Jamal Crawford to Atlanta ?

both not relevant examples.

The crawford deal took on a bad contract to give the hawks cap relief (claxton) and at the time gave up a decent young prospect, ala west, in acie law. Crawford was also not expiring.

The above is in no way, shape, or form a deal sending an young established player to a team for an expiring alone, which is what i asked for an example of.

Camby isn't an expiring contract, nor is he young. He's a bad contract that one team didn't mind laundering for a (most likely) high second round pick in the future.

That is again, not an expiring contract for a proven young stud.

TP for the idea's, but both of those are hardly relevant to the Idea that's infected this blog that an expiring contract is going to net a young stud (AI2, Martin, Ellis) that has run rampant in the trade scenarios here.

I agree we won't get Martin or Ellis because they are young and someone would be willing to give more to get these guys.

But I do not accept your argument that the examples we gave are different in a thread about 2 non-youngsters, Butler and Jamison.


Sure, every trade is unique. Every action in the universe is unique. There is always a way to say, "that is different". But you asked, "go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal." It does in fact happen when teams feel they don't need a player but need to free up salary, and if demand isn't high for that player.

Nevertheless, I think there is too much demand for Jamison and Butler to get them for nothing.

[crownsy]

The Wizards want to get something in return.  Houston has a lot more to offer than we do in terms of young talent.

who?  I don't think they would be giving up Landry or Brooks who else do they have. 


From what I hear in DC this to clear space which means Ray could be a nice replacement for TMAC in this deal. 

Again bird, go find me a deal for established NBA players that had nothing attached outside of an expiring deal.

The closest we've ever done is Wally, West, and a pick for ray, and even then, west was a young, talented guard that teams were interested in.

We don't even have a guy as attractive as west, outside MABEY ta since his recent streak has put him back on the map...but i don't want to give up TA, because he's one of the lone bright spots on the bench right now.

What about Marcus Camby to the Clippers?

or Jamal Crawford to Atlanta ?

both not relevant examples.

The crawford deal took on a bad contract to give the hawks cap relief (claxton) and at the time gave up a decent young prospect, ala west, in acie law. Crawford was also not expiring.

The above is in no way, shape, or form a deal sending an young established player to a team for an expiring alone, which is what i asked for an example of.

Camby isn't an expiring contract, nor is he young. He's a bad contract that one team didn't mind laundering for a (most likely) high second round pick in the future.

That is again, not an expiring contract for a proven young stud.

TP for the idea's, but both of those are hardly relevant to the Idea that's infected this blog that an expiring contract is going to net a young stud (AI2, Martin, Ellis) that has run rampant in the trade scenarios here.

  How about the Chauncey trade?

In retrospect, sure.

But at the time it was made, AI was still considered a solid starter.

Post AI's melt down in Detroit and tantrum in Charlotte, that trade looks alot more one sided. But at the time, while it was agreed that DEV was getting the better deal, i don't think it was considered a straight salary dump.

It was a swap of two established PG's.

Also, unlike the trades here, both those guys are older. The unrealistic trade rumors here have a young stud (AI2, ellis, martin) coming in for an expiring.

[Who]

I would prefer a Mike Miller + Antawn Jamison trade package to a Butler + Jamison trade.

It would be nice if you steal away McGee on top of that ... but that's being greedy to the extreme.

I like Dominic McGuire a lot too but I don't think Doc would play him so he is probably irrelevant as a trade acquisition.