Author Topic: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High  (Read 10539 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2021, 10:00:25 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Any unprotected pick more than like 5 years in the future has great value and they got several of those.  We saw it ourselves with our Nets trade how valuable those picks can be and we didn't even have that many or as far into the future.  I mean we actually got a 3, 3, and 8 out of it (those were 4, 5, and 6 years into the future).

We actually got 3, 1, and 8 :)

I don't mind the Rockets deal, they're going to control the Nets' picks for the next 7 years. They're going to get some solid picks out of it down the line.
You're right it was 1 we then traded it for 3 and the LAL pick.  I had forgotten that. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2021, 10:06:30 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Ainge did his due diligence by inquiring, but if Houston truly wanted Brown and Smart, plus a boatload of picks.... Ainge is 100% right that the price was too high. Anyone who thinks Lavert and Oladipo are an equal package to Brown and Smart is crazy. Either they clearly wanted way more from Boston, or they panicked after Harden’s presser and just took whatever the best offer still out there was.
They got 4 unprotected picks and 4 unprotected pick swaps.  Plenty of reasons to believe that is a better long term package than Brown and Smart and a couple of almost certainly mid to late 20's draft picks.  Now sure if they asked for 4 1sts and 4 swaps and then Brown and Smart that is a bit different, but that hasn't been reported anywhere.

That is a weird valuation for picks. OKC or NO could offer us 5-6 #1 picks and they could not get Brown in return. I doubt Ainge ever offered Brown for Harden, even straight up. As we saw with some of the picks we had that we thought might bring us a top 3 or top 5 level choice, it usually doesn't work out, and plenty of drafts don't yield a Brown level player at #1. Anyone want Wiggins for Brown? Anthony Edwards?

Houston would have been far better off with Brown or Simmons. If they had a shot at either and decided on a pile of picks, well, they continue to display the bad decision making that got them where they are now

I know Moranis makes a strong case above, but I agree with this take. Simmons and Brown are almost 100% better than any of the picks HOU is likely to get from BKN and they still have at least a decade left of their prime. Obviously things worked out well for the Cs in their original deal with BKN, but that is not normal.

Much more likely when a team starts to falter - and there is no guarantee BKN will - is what we got with the SAC and MEM picks. Seems they would have been better off landing young all-stars in Simmons or Brown and then taking their chances in FA. HOU is an underrated desirable FA destination, especially with all the super-top choices taken up for the time being. You don't want to have a roster like NYK trying to attract top talent; having a player like Simmons or Brown would be a much bigger draw.

I understand this take. A known commodity is better than an unknown commodity to some extent. But taking Simmons or Brown puts them on an unofficial clock. Houston would have to put a suitable team around those guys before their own free agencies in 4 and 5 years respectively, likely sooner with players able to request trades a year or 2 before their contracts expire. If they had a bare bones roster, that might have been easier, but they have Eric Gordon and John Wall taking up a huge chunk of cap space over the next few seasons.
That is of course the other side of this as well.  They just aren't going to be able to really build around Brown effectively with the cap situation and the lack of draft picks.  For a team like Houston, I think the future draft haul was the better option.  They have the entire draft future of another team for 7 years.  That is crazy.  Now sure the next few years that probably doesn't amount to much, though Brooklyn could absolutely implode and or even if they don't might end up transferring mid-1st round picks instead of late 1st round picks, especially as those guys get old and miss time.  I mean Durant is going to miss a bunch of games.  Irving, if he comes back, is going to miss a bunch of games.  Harden has generally played every game, but Harden without Durant or Irving with the rest of that roster isn't going to win very many games so the more time those other guys miss the worse the record is.  Brooklyn just strikes me like a team that even if it works, isn't going to be a great regular season team.  Think the last 4 Cavs teams with Lebron i.e. low 50's win total at best.  They will be a huge title threat if they enter the playoffs healthy, but I don't see them as a great regular season team, which also makes those draft picks better.   I just don't think Brooklyn is going to be like Milwaukee and win 60+ games every year.  Their stars will just miss too much time.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2021, 10:25:55 AM »

Offline cman88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5153
  • Tommy Points: 359
James harden is fat and out of shape, 32 years old, and pushed Chris Paul and westbrook out the door. And doesn't take the game seriously out at casinos and strip clubs before playoff games

Trading Brown (who is currently a 25ppg scorer) smart and 4 first rounders is too high a price.

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2021, 10:47:09 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4551
  • Tommy Points: 1031
James harden is fat and out of shape, 32 years old, and pushed Chris Paul and westbrook out the door. And doesn't take the game seriously out at casinos and strip clubs before playoff games

Trading Brown (who is currently a 25ppg scorer) smart and 4 first rounders is too high a price.

Harden will get back into shape (or to what he usually is). He was just going through the motions and completely unmotivated.
CELTICS 2024

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2021, 11:10:46 AM »

Offline LilRip

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6857
  • Tommy Points: 391
Levert, Allen, 4 picks, and 4 swaps.

That’s a steep price and I have a hard time believing DA came anywhere close to that price. 4 unprotected picks is insane.

Still, Nets gotta be at the top of the heap right now. But I think the East is plenty scary now with Bucks, Sixers, and the C’s (if we keep on this trajectory). The Pacers are like the Blazers of the East too aka a solid, scary team but who you wouldn’t classify as a contender.

- LilRip

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2021, 03:07:14 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7489
  • Tommy Points: 741
I'm glad Danny held off. Who knows where Harden will be in 2 years.

by the looks of it

"weight watchers "

Nice!
TP

I'm sure Harden will get into better shape in Brooklyn but there is something to be said for avoiding a player that will act the way he's acting after having pushed a couple of teammates out the door in past years.

The Celtics have built something potentially really special here. Best record in the East without Kemba. They're real contenders. And might be for a long time if things break right. A shot at Harden, no matter how talented, wasn't worth sacrificing this foundation.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2021, 03:16:03 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15739
  • Tommy Points: 1386
James harden is fat and out of shape, 32 years old, and pushed Chris Paul and westbrook out the door. And doesn't take the game seriously out at casinos and strip clubs before playoff games

Trading Brown (who is currently a 25ppg scorer) smart and 4 first rounders is too high a price.

Harden will get back into shape (or to what he usually is). He was just going through the motions and completely unmotivated.

This takes a lot longer to do at 32 than 25...

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2021, 04:02:44 PM »

Offline NKY fan

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2349
  • Tommy Points: 106
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
2 minutes ago
Quote
Sources: The four-team, James Harden-Victor Oladipo-Caris LeVert-Jarrett Allen trade is complete. An additional second-round pick and cash were sent to Indiana in order to finish the deal after an issue was discovered in LeVert’s physical with Pacers, sources say.

I wonder what the issue is with LeVert? Could it be something lingering but long term like Kembas knee....

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2021, 07:30:30 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3173
  • Tommy Points: 182
Jaylen Brown just has a brighter future than Harden right now and he is locked up long term for only 25m per year.

Now if Houston accepts Walker plus picks I would consider it but apparently they wanted far more.

The guy I want more than Harden right now is Bradley Beal.  There’s a player who could take us over the top.  Tatum/Beal/Brown can compete with Irving/Harden/Durant in terms of pure talent and I feel would have better chemistry since Beal is good friends with Tatum.

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2021, 08:55:22 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16057
  • Tommy Points: 990
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
2 minutes ago
Quote
Sources: The four-team, James Harden-Victor Oladipo-Caris LeVert-Jarrett Allen trade is complete. An additional second-round pick and cash were sent to Indiana in order to finish the deal after an issue was discovered in LeVert’s physical with Pacers, sources say.

I wonder what the issue is with LeVert? Could it be something lingering but long term like Kembas knee....

Discovered a small mass in left kidney, out indefinitely.


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: Ainge: price for harden too high
« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2021, 09:14:59 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6131
  • Tommy Points: 722
Quote

I am just speculating.  Isn't that the idea of this forum?  Of course I don't know and Ainge isn't going to say "yeah, we offered back Kemba and they said no".  It is just my opinion which is often wrong.

I'm surprised Danny didn't say publicly that he offered Kemba Walker or whoever. Never has seemed to bother him in the past to publicly shop his players. It is a bad habit of his and he has a reputation for it. Why do you think Ray Allen left ?
The Four Celtic Generals:
Russell - Cowens - Bird - Garnett

The Four Celtic Lieutenants:
Cousy - Havlicek - McHale - Pierce

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2021, 09:18:37 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6131
  • Tommy Points: 722
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
2 minutes ago
Quote
Sources: The four-team, James Harden-Victor Oladipo-Caris LeVert-Jarrett Allen trade is complete. An additional second-round pick and cash were sent to Indiana in order to finish the deal after an issue was discovered in LeVert’s physical with Pacers, sources say.

I wonder what the issue is with LeVert? Could it be something lingering but long term like Kembas knee....

LeVert reported to have a lump on his kidney. Just for his sake as a person, let's hope the guy is ok.
The Four Celtic Generals:
Russell - Cowens - Bird - Garnett

The Four Celtic Lieutenants:
Cousy - Havlicek - McHale - Pierce

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2021, 09:56:10 PM »

Offline mr. dee

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7828
  • Tommy Points: 597
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
2 minutes ago
Quote
Sources: The four-team, James Harden-Victor Oladipo-Caris LeVert-Jarrett Allen trade is complete. An additional second-round pick and cash were sent to Indiana in order to finish the deal after an issue was discovered in LeVert’s physical with Pacers, sources say.

I wonder what the issue is with LeVert? Could it be something lingering but long term like Kembas knee....

LeVert reported to have a lump on his kidney. Just for his sake as a person, let's hope the guy is ok.
I wonder if Pacers will ask for compensation. We did compensate Cavs with a 2nd round pick when they found out his situation was worse than told. We also did receive a pick from OKC after we found out Jeff Green's heart issues.

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2021, 10:18:03 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13129
  • Tommy Points: 885
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
2 minutes ago
Quote
Sources: The four-team, James Harden-Victor Oladipo-Caris LeVert-Jarrett Allen trade is complete. An additional second-round pick and cash were sent to Indiana in order to finish the deal after an issue was discovered in LeVert’s physical with Pacers, sources say.

I wonder what the issue is with LeVert? Could it be something lingering but long term like Kembas knee....

LeVert reported to have a lump on his kidney. Just for his sake as a person, let's hope the guy is ok.
I wonder if Pacers will ask for compensation. We did compensate Cavs with a 2nd round pick when they found out his situation was worse than told. We also did receive a pick from OKC after we found out Jeff Green's heart issues.

See above.

Re: Ainge: Price for Harden Too High
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2021, 04:46:13 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3275
  • Tommy Points: 228
I really didn't like that response by danny considering that's been the rumor with every supposed deal.

I think his response should've been we weren't getting enough in return.

Little bit hard to do that if we're the one making the offer.  Houston were selling, they set the price.

I was kinda jokin, takin a stab at harden.