I won't get fooled again

[CoachBo]

Yeah, I hear you dude, the front office should of never made promises and needs to reset expectations with the fans and actually address the "fireworks" conundrum.

The whole draft thing, he has some staunch defenders but Al Jefferson, Avery Bradley, Rajon Rondo, and Tony Allen to an extent, are the only guys who panned out. That's four players out of 25+ picks during his whole career.

Tony Allen only worked out "to an extent"?  He was the 25th pick in the draft.  I think the problem is more that your expectations for late picks are much too high

Ok, I'll grant you Tony Allen that's still only 4 players in the time frame of 13 years. He still trades for good players, and I appreciate that.

I'm not looking to jumpship or whatever, I'm just saying I understand OPs frustration with the Celtics being in the rumor mill 24/7 yet nothing ever materializes, it is getting tiresome but it can also be a good thing for our outlook in the league as an asset hoarder and willing dance partner.

I feel part of Ainge's problem with the draft is scouting.    Instead of hiring a professional, he has his son leading the scouting department.  Nepotism beat out better candidates.   

I get that he hasn't had the best picks and you have to make due, but after enough years, you should over-achieve with at least one or two picks.  That hasn't really happened in over six years now.

Amidst all the Green Team drivel in this thread, here is an excellent post. TP.

[BitterJim]

So, I've been fooled one too many times by this team. Seems every year I get caught up in trade rumors, big FA signings, draft day fireworks. Yet at the end of the day, more serviceable players.
Spent all day last Thursday, not to mention the weeks leading up to it,  believing this would be the time. A big trade was coming. End of the day, they draft Brown. Don't hate the guy, but don't think he moves the needle. The year before, it was Rozier.

Trade deadline last year it was Horford, Butler, etc. Then, nothing.

Free agents? Picked up Amir last year. Yet another pretty good role player. This year I'm reading about Durant, Horford, even Howard, But I'm at the point I know at the end of the day, They sign another okay guy. Not sure who it's going to be, but at least I'm prepared.
Been fooled by the "fireworks" too many times.

Just venting

Yes, because Danny has superhuman abilities to control people's minds to make them sign here in FA or make trades. 

Here's two things that you may want to remember for the future:
1. More than half the rumors you hear are made up clickbait.
2. Sometimes the best thing to do is to not make a deal.

Point 2 is the constant excuse coming up for Ainge's performance. Every single time Grousbeck runs his mouth, followed by an Ainge oh-for.

It should be engraved on his tombstone.

Ainge managed to transition a team with two aging, over the hill super stars to a young play-off team with several future (in all likelihood, high lottery) draft picks. He turned Rondo into Jae Crowder and a 16th draft pick.  He managed to use a late first round pick (I think tied in from the Pierce trade, someone help me here) for an All Star guard averaging over 20 points a game. He did all of in less than three years.

What exactly is your problem? You could do better?

I had no idea Ainge has only been the GM for three years.

That, too, is funny.

I was so spot on earlier: You cannot beat this blog for laughs.

Ah, right, he forgot to bring up the KG trade and the 2008 championship.  TP for the catch

[CoachBo]

Point 2 is the constant excuse coming up for Ainge's performance. Every single time Grousbeck runs his mouth, followed by an Ainge oh-for.

It should be engraved on his tombstone.

I love how DumbBo thinks that 48 wins in the 3rd year of a rebuild is supposed to be an indictment of Ainge's performance.

Name calling really advances your point. You really got me there. I'll have to take a couple of days off to recoup from the name calling, before I come back with the appropriate maturity level of response. Something like "sticks and stones ..."

[CoachBo]

So, I've been fooled one too many times by this team. Seems every year I get caught up in trade rumors, big FA signings, draft day fireworks. Yet at the end of the day, more serviceable players.
Spent all day last Thursday, not to mention the weeks leading up to it,  believing this would be the time. A big trade was coming. End of the day, they draft Brown. Don't hate the guy, but don't think he moves the needle. The year before, it was Rozier.

Trade deadline last year it was Horford, Butler, etc. Then, nothing.

Free agents? Picked up Amir last year. Yet another pretty good role player. This year I'm reading about Durant, Horford, even Howard, But I'm at the point I know at the end of the day, They sign another okay guy. Not sure who it's going to be, but at least I'm prepared.
Been fooled by the "fireworks" too many times.

Just venting

Yes, because Danny has superhuman abilities to control people's minds to make them sign here in FA or make trades. 

Here's two things that you may want to remember for the future:
1. More than half the rumors you hear are made up clickbait.
2. Sometimes the best thing to do is to not make a deal.

Point 2 is the constant excuse coming up for Ainge's performance. Every single time Grousbeck runs his mouth, followed by an Ainge oh-for.

It should be engraved on his tombstone.

Ainge managed to transition a team with two aging, over the hill super stars to a young play-off team with several future (in all likelihood, high lottery) draft picks. He turned Rondo into Jae Crowder and a 16th draft pick.  He managed to use a late first round pick (I think tied in from the Pierce trade, someone help me here) for an All Star guard averaging over 20 points a game. He did all of in less than three years.

What exactly is your problem? You could do better?

I had no idea Ainge has only been the GM for three years.

That, too, is funny.

I was so spot on earlier: You cannot beat this blog for laughs.

Ah, right, he forgot to bring up the KG trade and the 2008 championship.  TP for the catch

Eight years, huh? I'll make a note of that.

[Fafnir]

We've gone from 25 to 48 wins in 2 seasons while trading the guy who was theoretically our best player for a package most fans initially thought was a ripoff. 

The changes are already happening, it's just been more of a slow burn than a big blast so far.  I'd love a "name" player here too but I'd much rather we keep progressing at the same rate than put all our eggs in one basket because the guy is better-known around the league.

Yeah the amount of dissatisfaction with Ainge's rebuild from the KG/Pierce/etc team is strange to me. I understood the ire of those who wanted to blow it up earlier much more.

Only one year of bottoming out is pretty darn good given the draft and cap situation the C's are now blessed with.

[Fafnir]

Eight years, huh? I'll make a note of that.

Do you have a point beyond being sarcastic?

[BitterJim]

So, I've been fooled one too many times by this team. Seems every year I get caught up in trade rumors, big FA signings, draft day fireworks. Yet at the end of the day, more serviceable players.
Spent all day last Thursday, not to mention the weeks leading up to it,  believing this would be the time. A big trade was coming. End of the day, they draft Brown. Don't hate the guy, but don't think he moves the needle. The year before, it was Rozier.

Trade deadline last year it was Horford, Butler, etc. Then, nothing.

Free agents? Picked up Amir last year. Yet another pretty good role player. This year I'm reading about Durant, Horford, even Howard, But I'm at the point I know at the end of the day, They sign another okay guy. Not sure who it's going to be, but at least I'm prepared.
Been fooled by the "fireworks" too many times.

Just venting

Yes, because Danny has superhuman abilities to control people's minds to make them sign here in FA or make trades. 

Here's two things that you may want to remember for the future:
1. More than half the rumors you hear are made up clickbait.
2. Sometimes the best thing to do is to not make a deal.

Point 2 is the constant excuse coming up for Ainge's performance. Every single time Grousbeck runs his mouth, followed by an Ainge oh-for.

It should be engraved on his tombstone.

Ainge managed to transition a team with two aging, over the hill super stars to a young play-off team with several future (in all likelihood, high lottery) draft picks. He turned Rondo into Jae Crowder and a 16th draft pick.  He managed to use a late first round pick (I think tied in from the Pierce trade, someone help me here) for an All Star guard averaging over 20 points a game. He did all of in less than three years.

What exactly is your problem? You could do better?

I had no idea Ainge has only been the GM for three years.

That, too, is funny.

I was so spot on earlier: You cannot beat this blog for laughs.

Ah, right, he forgot to bring up the KG trade and the 2008 championship.  TP for the catch

Eight years, huh? I'll make a note of that.

Well, the last I checked there was a lot of work leading up to the KG trade, too, but why bog yourself down in details like that?

[GratefulCs]

Eight years, huh? I'll make a note of that.

Do you have a point beyond being sarcastic?

TP faf

[Fafnir]

I sympathize with the OP, rollercoaster of the draft/FA period can be exhausting. Especially given an entire industry is trying to work us up so we click/watch/read.

But that's sports now-a-days, if its getting you too worked up step back for a while. And in the end the most probable outcome every season is always failure and/or the status quo with changes around the edges.

[Ilikesports17]

Yeah, I hear you dude, the front office should of never made promises and needs to reset expectations with the fans and actually address the "fireworks" conundrum.

The whole draft thing, he has some staunch defenders but Al Jefferson, Avery Bradley, Rajon Rondo, and Tony Allen to an extent, are the only guys who panned out. That's four players out of 25+ picks during his whole career.

Tony Allen only worked out "to an extent"?  He was the 25th pick in the draft.  I think the problem is more that your expectations for late picks are much too high

Ok, I'll grant you Tony Allen that's still only 4 players in the time frame of 13 years. He still trades for good players, and I appreciate that.

I'm not looking to jumpship or whatever, I'm just saying I understand OPs frustration with the Celtics being in the rumor mill 24/7 yet nothing ever materializes, it is getting tiresome but it can also be a good thing for our outlook in the league as an asset hoarder and willing dance partner.

I feel part of Ainge's problem with the draft is scouting.    Instead of hiring a professional, he has his son leading the scouting department.  Nepotism beat out better candidates.   

I get that he hasn't had the best picks and you have to make due, but after enough years, you should over-achieve with at least one or two picks.  That hasn't really happened in over six years now.

I understand why Ainge wants to have really trusted guys scouting whos opinion he can really lean on, but I definitely agree. They should expand the network.

He clearly has struggled on high ceiling picks. Young, Melo, Giddens, JOhnosn just to highlight a few busts. Last high ceiling guy to work out would have to be Rondo. right?

[mctyson]

I hear you.

I just don't believe anything coming out of the front office any more.

Show me results, and maybe I'll start believing again. But I'm not going to hang my hat on this endless succession of moves that don't advance the product on the floor, like the 2016 and 2017 drafts. Summer league bores me to tears, too.

Apparently a 48-win season with the 4th youngest roster is not a 'result' to you.  But you are a coach so you know what it takes...

[Granath]

Point 2 is the constant excuse coming up for Ainge's performance. Every single time Grousbeck runs his mouth, followed by an Ainge oh-for.

It should be engraved on his tombstone.

I love how DumbBo thinks that 48 wins in the 3rd year of a rebuild is supposed to be an indictment of Ainge's performance.

Name calling really advances your point. You really got me there. I'll have to take a couple of days off to recoup from the name calling, before I come back with the appropriate maturity level of response. Something like "sticks and stones ..."

It's still far more intelligent than anything you've posted recently. By the way, there are 29 other teams out there. I'm sure there's a team and a community that enjoys losing and whining about it just as much as you do.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

We've gone from 25 to 48 wins in 2 seasons while trading the guy who was theoretically our best player for a package most fans initially thought was a ripoff. 

The changes are already happening, it's just been more of a slow burn than a big blast so far.  I'd love a "name" player here too but I'd much rather we keep progressing at the same rate than put all our eggs in one basket because the guy is better-known around the league.

Yeah the amount of dissatisfaction with Ainge's rebuild from the KG/Pierce/etc team is strange to me. I understood the ire of those who wanted to blow it up earlier much more.

Only one year of bottoming out is pretty darn good given the draft and cap situation the C's are now blessed with.

Bottoming out for only one year is definitely impressive, and I think Ainge has done a great job overall.

I confess to being one of those people disappointed (at least initially) with the last couple of drafts, but I think that has much less to do with the picks and much more to do with the lack of fireworks. I can speak only for myself (though I suspect that others feel similarly), but I think a good deal of the discontent stems from Danny kicking his "war chest of assets" down the road at every draft, trade deadline, and free agency period for the last three years.

It's true that he made some great, savvy moves in acquiring IT and Crowder, but that's still a ways removed from finding "the next KG," etc. I don't think Danny contributed to the "fireworks" expectations; that's mostly on Wyc, but I think some Cs fans have contributed to that by saying—at every draft, trade deadline, etc. that featured no big moves—"Just wait until next summer/next draft/next trade deadline," and then nothing happened, and again they said, "Just wait," and then nothing happened ... and so on.

I take full responsibility for managing my expectations, but it hasn't been easy in the internet/social media climate.

That said, I like what I saw from Rozier at the end of the season, I'm warming up to Brown, and I'm pleased with where this team and organization are at.

[flybono]

Yeah, I hear you dude, the front office should of never made promises and needs to reset expectations with the fans and actually address the "fireworks" conundrum.

The whole draft thing, he has some staunch defenders but Al Jefferson, Avery Bradley, Rajon Rondo, and Tony Allen to an extent, are the only guys who panned out. That's four players out of 25+ picks during his whole career.

There is also another solution if you are really disapointed with the FO.
There are 29 other teams that you can support.

The front office cannot be held responsible? Put the kool-aid down. All fans want a winner and championship contender.

[CoachBo]

Point 2 is the constant excuse coming up for Ainge's performance. Every single time Grousbeck runs his mouth, followed by an Ainge oh-for.

It should be engraved on his tombstone.

I love how DumbBo thinks that 48 wins in the 3rd year of a rebuild is supposed to be an indictment of Ainge's performance.

Name calling really advances your point. You really got me there. I'll have to take a couple of days off to recoup from the name calling, before I come back with the appropriate maturity level of response. Something like "sticks and stones ..."

It's still far more intelligent than anything you've posted recently. By the way, there are 29 other teams out there. I'm sure there's a team and a community that enjoys losing and whining about it just as much as you do.

Doesn't seem like every poster agrees with you.

Funny, I don't see anything in the forum rules requiring toeing the company line. Lots of rules about abusive posts, things like that, but nothing like "everyone has to agree with every single thing Danny Ainge does."

And no, 48 wins does not impress me. Not in the slightest.